2 Carcraft debts/ all in one finance & British Credit Trust & Various DCA's

[Feebee_71]

Hi there,

 

I would appreciate assistance with this matter.

 

A bit of history - I bought a car in June 2007 from CarCraft and the finance was provided by BCT on a HP basis. In April this year I lost my job and entered into an agreement with BCT to reduce my payments to a token amount due to my only income being benefits. I missed a month's payment before the agreement was put in place and then have been in contact with them every month to renew the temporary payment agreement.

 

This week I have received 2 letters from BCT -

 

one of them informing me that they have passed my account to their recoveries team. It lists the balance outstanding on the account, the arrears and default sums. They go on to say the account has been passed to a Debt Recovery Agent who have been instructed to either

- collect the vehicle,

- arrange payment of the arrears or,

- collect the outstanding balance if the car has been sold by them or me.

It also informs me that, if suitable payment can't be agreed with their agents, and I do not choose to surrender the vehicle to them voluntarily they will apply to the courts to obtain possession of the vehicle and any legal costs incurred would be applied to my account. However, if I choose to surrender the vehicle, they will sell it at auction and any shortfall between the balance and the sum received for the vehicle at auction will need to be repaid by myself.

They include a list of typical debt collection agenct fees that, if incurred, I may also be liable to in addition to any balance of the original account.

 

The second letter is the Notice of Termination. This informs me that, because I have breached the agreement and have not taken the steps specified on the default notice to resolve it, they have terminated the agreement.

They state they are the legal owners of the vehicle and demand it's immediate return. If I do not contact them and make a satisfactory arrangement to do this they will repossess the vehicle and, costs incurred in doing so will be added to my debt with them. They state the same outstanding balance and total arrears but do not mention the default sums mentioned on the previous letter.

 

Now comes the interesting part............

 

I dug out my paperwork from when I got the car and, on the HP Agreement document, where it mentions repossession it says that "if you do not keep your side of this agreement but have paid at least one third of the agreement (and give a figure), we may not take back the goods against your wishes unless we obtain a court order. If we do take the goods without your consent or a court order, you have the right to get back any money you have paid under this agreement."

 

In the booklet "A Guide To Your Hire Purchase Agreement" they state that, "if we do terminate, you must immediately return the vehicle to us at your own expense and in a condition which meets your obligation under Clause 4.2 above. If you do not do so, we will be entitled to repossess the vehicle."

 

There seems to be a discrepancy between the two documents so I'm unsure which to take notice of in regards to returning the vehicle to them and their right to repossess it as the second document seems to say they don't need a court order irrespective of the amount paid back.

 

Part of me says hand the vehicle back to them to minimise the added costs to myself by another part says make them take me to court as they have had 4 years of payments on a 5 year payment plan.

 

Can anyone advise me what to do next?

 

I can't scan documents but can type up anything from the agreement I've signed, the booklet about the agreement or the letters from them (I've kept all letters since I got into problems but have to say most dealings have been over the phone so far but they send a letter after payment agreements were made with them on the phone).

 

Thanks for any help,

 

Feebee_71

 

Is no-one able to help with this?

 

Feebee_71

 

Bump - PLEASE!

[dx100uk]

the debt recovery agent has no more powers than a milkman

neither can BCT or any tinpot DCA add any 'penalty' charges - you reclaim them if they do.

whatever you do - do not VS the vehicle - VT if you must.

the agreement that you signed is the T&C's you go by

in otherwords,

they can 'say' what they like in a silly booklet

but

your signed agreement says they cant repro after 1/3rd - end off.

you also need to ensure they did not terminate before the dN date + postage.

 

dx

[Feebee_71]

Hi DX,

 

Thanks for the contact.

 

I have looked at the default notice sent to me, actually there are 2 account one of which was a small personal loan used to provide the deposit on the car along with my old car with a low p/x value. Both accounts were defaulted in September - the main car loan on the 6th, sent 2nd class post and with a remedy date of the 24th September. - the personal loan account default on the 8th September, also sent 2nd class, with remedy date of 26th September.

 

Termination notice only for main account sent mid October (sorry, not able to put my hand on it at the moment so can't confirm date exactly).

 

So far I've not heard anything more from BCT or from their agents.

 

The car is currently off road, no MOT, tax or insurance (it is registered SORN) and is stored on 3rd party private property. If they come to take the car it is not drivable as got flat battery from sitting there for last 4+ months.

 

Should I continue to make the token payments on both accounts to BCT until I hear from their recovery agents? I have an agreement to make a payment by the 1st November and don't know whether to make it or not.

 

If I hear any more from BCT or their agents I will come back with news,

 

Feebee_71

[dx100uk]

not really my game

but it might be an idea to pm the carcraft rep

 

 

have a read of a few threads in this forum too

 

i dont think you should be paying for something that does not work!

 

dx

 

dx

[Feebee_71]

Hi DX,

 

Since I bought the car back in 2007 I've not had any contact with CarCraft as my financial dealings are with BCT. I do wonder what benefit there would be speaking to someone from CarCraft this far down the line as they've not been involved with the problems surrounding my ability (or otherwise) to pay while I'm not working.

 

The car not working is entirely down to me leaving it sitting on the drive where it is stored since the tax expired and it was SORNed, I am sure the problem is purely a flat battery and I don't think they would accept non-payment based on me letting the battery go flat!!

 

Feebee_71

[caro]

This link might help clarify things. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=16_hire_purchase_debt

[Feebee_71]

Hmm, interesting development today..........

 

I was originally posted to ask whether I should still make the payment I had agreed with BCT for this month (due next Tuesday) in spite of them terminating the agreement earlier in the month but got no reply to that question and was going to ask again today as it's the last chance to pay and for them to receive it by the agreed date.

 

Part of me says no I shouldn't as BCT have now terminated the agreement and asked for the car back and told me I have to deal with their agent - but I'm yet to receive any details on who their agents are. The other part of me says to carry on making the token payments so that, in the event of them taking me to court to get the car back I can show I'm keeping to my end of the agreement and making said token payments.

 

Anyway, now to the interesting development this morning...............

 

I have received letters for both the car HP agreement and the personal loan agreement dated this week but confirming the agreements to make token payments at the start of October and start of November and reminding me to keep to these agreements. They make no mention of the fact they've terminated the HP agreement or asked for the car back.

 

I think I'm going to make the payments to be on the safe side - if they have washed their hands of the agreements then surely they will either pass the payments on to their agents or will send them back to me as they have no agreement with me.

 

What do others think? Should I make this payment or should I sit tight and see what they do next?

 

Many thanks,

 

Feebee_71

[Feebee_71]

Need help folks - should I pay as agreed before they terminated the agreement and per the letters received yesterday or should I now ignore all correspondence from them?

 

Feebee_71

[caro]

Personally I'd be inclined to carry on as agreed if you can afford it. If they take you to court you'll be able to demonstrate that you've done as agreed and aren't looking to evade your responsibilities.

 

Whether others will agree with me is another matter but that's for you to decide.

[Feebee_71]

Thanks Caro,

 

I will make a payment tomorrow. I did think it would go in my favour if I continued paying them - it's only 10% of what I should pay a month but as I'm on ESA it's all I can afford!

 

Feebee_71

[caro]

Make sure your priority bills come first. They're more important.

[Feebee_71]

Hmm,

 

Today I got home from being at my sister's house for a couple of days to a letter from a company called either (depending on whether you read the left or right side of a page) Gothia or Red Castle Recoveries!!

 

OUR CLIENT : ALL IN ONE FINANCE (who?)

CLIENT REF : QQ1111111:1

TOTAL DEBT : £xxx:xx (as I don't know what debt they are claiming to be collecting I don't know if this is correct)

 

Your overdue account has been passed to us by ALL IN ONE FINANCE. Your account remains unpaid, FULL payment is required IMMEDIATELY.

 

(then, in a box - obviously to point out to me just how imperative it is for me to deal with them)

 

*ACT NOW TO AVOID THE NEED FOR COURT ACTION*

*IF NO PAYMENT IS RECEIVED*

*An application may be made to the court for a county court judgement

*Enforcement by way of an attachment of earnings (if a judgement is obtained)

*Your credit rating may be adversely affected

 

All future negotiations must be made through us as the appointed recoveries agent.

 

Please call Gothia's Payment department on 0844 248 0256 to pay by credit or debit card, if you are unable to make payments by card then please call on 0844 248 0250 to set up a direct debit or discuss other payment methods that will suit you.

 

If you are experiencing financial difficulties then please call us on 0844 248 0250 and speak to one of our experienced advisors so that we may be able to help you.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

(squiggled digital signature)

Collections Department

 

 

You can pay by most major credit/debit cards by calling us on 0844 248 0250 between the hours of 8am - 8pm, Monday to Thursday, 8am - 7pm Friday and 9am - 1pm Saturday

 

This could be from a couple of companies, I'm currently (not) dealing with MH/OPOS/DERS for a debt to Quick Quid but the amount isn't right for them, and also this letter is dated just 2 days after the most recent contact from their particular merry-go-round!! Alternatively, I've had termination notices from British Credit Trust for a car HP account and an associated personal top-up loan - it could be them as the amount could be correct for the personal top-up loan once you add on the charges and interest added by BCT before they terminated.

 

I wonder what sort of response I should give this company?

 

Feebee_71

[dx100uk]

none!

 

dx

[Feebee_71]

Thanks DX,

 

I was wondering if I should write to them denying any knowledge of them or any business they may claim to have with me.

 

When BCT (if it is them) terminated the agreements (separately and about 6 weeks apart) they did say they would be sending the accounts to their 'agents' but gave no indication of who those agents are. Surely, for the agent to be able to collect from me the OC should be informing me of whom they have passed the accounts on to?

 

Since the QQ account went to MH it's been passed around to OPOS and now DERS with no notification to me so I've ignored the subsequent companies, I made an offer which (given my current circumstances) would be accepted by any county court but they chose to ignore it. Until they acknowledge and accept that original offer they can swing for any more correspondence from me and for me to comply with their demands!!

 

Feebee_71

Edited December 3, 2011 by Feebee_71
Missed a bit out

[dx100uk]

you do not EVER speak.pay.answer phone or allow doorstepper callers/colection

to ANY tin-pot DCA.

 

end of!

 

they have NO LEGAL POWERS

 

 

dx

[Feebee_71]

Thanks DX,

 

Will add this letter to all the ones I've had recently from MH, OPOS and DERS and will give it the same attention I've given all of those letters - ignore!!

 

Feebee_71

[Feebee_71]

Ok, had a phone message from this company when I got home from a couple of days at my sister's house (am there every week). Decided to call them to find out what this is all about, and what account is now held by All In One Finance.

 

Was correct in that it is the personal top up loan from the car finance.

 

Actually got through to someone who is a human being, understand when you say, my income is severely limited and I did have an agreement with the finance company but they decided to terminate the account when it got to xx in arrears. No bullying, no hassle and no demands I couldn't afford.

 

The upshot is this - I have an agreement to make a token payment over a long period, no added charges or interest on the remaining balance and no long term hassle promised - though that will remain to be seen!! Standing order not DD so under my control not theirs, they don't have access to my bank account it remains in my control; they gave me their bank sort code and account number, provided me with a reference number and said they would put a letter in the post to the effect of the agreement made!!

 

First payment when my next lot of money is received and that suits me. I know there are people who would advise against this course of action but, I've only got into this position as I lost my job and I don't want to shirk my responsibilities for the finances I've committeed to paying back.

 

 

Feebee_71

[Feebee_71]

Hi all,

 

Got home this evening after not being home since Monday afternoon and found, stuck in my letterbox (between the 2 flaps if that makes sense), a business card from Wrights Recoveries UK. It has a small amount of hand written information on it - my name, and 'Can you give me a call' along with the name and a mobile number for (I guess) their local agent.

 

Anyway, when I first got home I wasn't sure who this company were, what sort of debt they 'recover' and what it was in relation to so thought I'd try calling the number but withhold my calling number, however the number on the card came back as 'number not recognised'. Now, as I assume this number is the agent's mobile number but, as it's hand written I would expect the agent to know their own number!! I don't know when the card was left.

 

Once I was unable to get through and had a bit more time on my hands and got the laptop set up I decided to look at their website and see who they are and what I can find out about them. Turns out they are a vehicle reposession company so am assuming they have contacted me about this car matter. It has been a good few weeks since the agreement was terminated and BCT wrote informing me they were going to pass the account to their agents to take posession of the car.

 

The vehicle is not at this address as it is now on SORN and we are not allowed to store untaxed or SORN vehicles in our small number of parking spaces so, when the tax ran out a good few months ago, I moved it to another address away from here where it can be stored safely on private property. Also, I am not here very often especially as I am going into hospital next Friday morning for fairly major abdominal surgery and will not be back here until well after Christmas, and so it's more than likely that I won't be around when this (or any other) agent decides to call on me again!!

 

Now wondering what to do next. I can genuinely say I've tried to call their agent but the number on the card is incorrect, there is no reference number on the card for me to be able to contact their head office which is almost the opposite end of the country to me and I'm not inclined to contact them in any case.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Feebee_71

[Feebee_71]

Hello everyone and a very happy new year to you all,

 

As the title says I've just got a quick question about terminated agreements and and charges being subsequently added to the sums owed.

 

Due to job loss I have found myself in that position where I can only afford to make token payments to my various creditors. Nearly every one has been reasonable and accepted these payments and arrangements are in place and payments being made.

 

However one company, British Credit Trust, have taken the decision to terminate the 2 agreements I have with them. One has been passed onto a DCA who I chose to deal with and am paying an affordable amount each month, they have told me how long it will take to pay the amount owed (which I agree I owe) and I am only dealing with them as they were reasonable with me and agreed to a fixed term repayment that is realistic for someone on benefits. The other agreement with them is still up in the air and yet to have an agreeable arrangement made to repay the sums owed.

 

This week I have received a letter for each account with the information that a second default charge has been added to each account - remember, this is despite them terminating both agreements last year. In both letters they also included statements of the accounts showing added interest and fees since the date of termination.

 

What I want to know is whether I am wrong in my thinking that, once they have sent me confirmation that the agreements have been terminated (which I did get for both accounts around October/November time), they cannot start adding more charges to the accounts?

 

Many thanks for any advice in advance,

 

Feebee_71

[BankFodder]

I think that in principle that must be right. I wonder whether the T&Cs say anything such as - termination of this agreement is without prejudice to the continuation of the charges and fees etc listed in our tariff - you know what I mean.

That would be interesting to know. Not that this would necessarily have an validity but it would be interesting to understand if this is something they might use to justify their position.

 

I expect that all charges they levy for late payment, non-performance etc will be levied at an excessive and therefore unfair rate.

You will be able to tell us more about that.

If they are going to play silly then you might as well start looking at the lawfulness of what they are doing and work out what you really do owe.

[Guest]

also, have a look at the Lending Code which says that interest and charges should cease where there are financial difficulties/token payments.

[Feebee_71]

Quick question

 

If a company has terminated the agreement on a personal loan put into place as part of a vehicle finance agreement (but not secured on the vehicle according to the paperwork from finance company) can they start sending new notices threatening to either

 

- instruct solicitors to commence legal action

or

- send the account to a debt collection agency.

 

In the letter they use the words will and give me 14 days to contact them with my proposals to settle the account.

 

I am fairly sure that, last year when they terminated the agreement, they told me that the account had been passed on to their chosen debt collectors. I had previously made a repayment proposal that they accepted and then they told me they had terminated the agreement and I would hear from their chosen agent regarding how to make further repayments.

 

My financial situation has not changed in the last 12 months in that I am still not working and living on minimum benefits!!

 

Now they have sent me this letter regarding the personal loan aspect of the finance I am sure it won't be long before they also start on the HP agreement which is secured on the vehicle (that is not here but is stored off road on private property as no longer taxed or MOT'd!! Again, I had a payment plan in place but they terminated the agreement and told me to wait to hear from their agent - something that also hasn't happened!!

 

Feebee_71

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Simple answer is yes they can, the debt is alive and enforceable.

As you are on benefits you can offer £1.00 per month and remind

them if the take it to court that's as much as they would be awarded.

Wait for the DCA to contact you.

[Feebee_71]

Thanks Brigadier2JCS,

 

I was originally paying them £10/month after telling them I was on benefits and they would only accept the payments on a monthly basis. Then, when I was 4 months behind on the agreed payments (taking into account what I was paying was 40% of the monthly charge), they terminated the agreement, sent me a letter saying they would send out to their chosen agent and to wait to hear from them before doing anything further. This letter today is the first thing from them since then other than a couple of letters to tell me they were still adding default fees to the account.

 

They have sent me an income and expenditure form which I am sure they sent me previously and I had completed for them - though I know they can't insist on me supplying the information - so they know my situation and it's not changed since then except it's now almost 12 months later.

 

Feebee_71

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

H Feebe,

 

I would write and thank them for sending you an I&E form as when you

had completed it you find that due to the current financial climate you

have had to reduce your offer to £1.00 per month take it or take me to court

where a judge will not award any more.