Arrow Global claim form received - **CLAIM STRUCK OUT - WITH COSTS**

[angryape]

Hi folks, days after the court confirming that a recent claim by AG has been struck out as they could not produce documents, I receive a claim from AG via Shoosmiths for an overdraft.

 

POC reads....

 

1 Claimants claim is for the sum of ......... being monies due from the defendant in an overdraft whilst operating a bank account (sort code/account no) with HSBC bank p assigned to the claimant on 05/11/2010 and no of assignment provided to the defendant, pursuant to the law of property act 1925

 

2 Payment of the above some has been requested but at the date here of refused.

 

3 the claimant claims the sum of .....

 

4 C has complied as far is necessary with the pre action conduct practice direction Number.

 

 

Their last claim was for a huge amount of money and they could not produce and agreement, notice of assignment etc, I am also pretty sure that any debt relating to this would have been pre September 2005 as I was out of the country for a year from that date onwards so would not have been corresponding with anyone. I believe this may make it statute barred.

 

I assume that I should respond to the claim online, and send a CPR 31 request to them to confirm that they actually have the paperwork mentioned in the POC and to see if this is stature barred? Any advice would be greatly appreciated - you guys were amazing last time!

 

AngryApe

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi AngryApe,

Yep, acknowledge and request a copy of:

The terms, conditions and statement of account of the overdraft

A copy of the Notice of Assignment

 

I would also send a part 18 request for the following information:

1. What was the date of last payment into this account?

2. What was the type and source of this payment?

3. Was a default notice issued, if so on what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy?

4. Was the issuance of a default notice recorded in the communications log?

5. What total amount of charges has been added to the amount claimed?

 

This has to be sent in standard format as a seperate letter to the claimants named solicitors. (See attached compilation of legal posts...a part 18 template is included)

 

Additionally I would send a SAR to the original co immediately.

 

That should keep you busy for a bit!

 

kind regards,

Elsa x

pt-legal issues-compilation.pdf

[angryape]

Thank you very much Elsa - I have done all that you suggested, and sent them all by recorded delivery. I shall let you know if they get back to me or if I have to send them a reminder.

 

Many thanks,

 

Angryape.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Well done AA, keep your eye on the time lines..

Elsa x

[SP500]

Hi, I have also received one of these claims and will be following the same path.

I was wondering if this is the normal route for these claimants to take with what appear to be statute barred overdrafts? Can someone tell me the relevant part(s) of the Law of Property Act 1925 I need to read up on?

 

edit; from the info I've searched here it would appear they would be referring to s136 of LoP Act 1925 which refers to the assignment only.

Edited October 26, 2011 by SP500

[SP500]

AngryApe, prior to the court claim landing on your doormat, did Shoosmiths make you an offer to repay half of the alleged debt?

They did so for me - which I simply took as their admission that the alleged debt was either statute-barred or they didn't have sufficient paperwork to pursue in court

Good luck

[sequenci]

Do you know when the overdraft was called in? That is when the 6 years clock may start ticking with an overdraft unless there was a particular clause within the overdraft terms & conditions which triggers a default on a partiular circumstance - e.g. for some accounts if a salary stops being paid in it can trigger a default. In short, challenging limitation issues for overdrafts can be a little more tricky than loans and overdrafts.

[angryape]

Hi guys, just read the most recent post - I am unsure when the overdraft was called in but I believe the salary would have stopped being paid in during summer 2005. I have sent the SAR request, and a CPR request to shoosmiths followed by an CPR urgent reminder a week later (both recorded delivery) and have not even had a letter confirming receipt of my request. As its coming up to a week from the urgent reminder, do you think I should go to the court for an N244 request to produce the documents else strike out?

 

Thank you in anticipation....

 

AngryApe

[angryape]

Also, in answer to sp500s post (I thought I had replied from my phone but looks like it didnt work)... the same day as the claim form arrived I had a letter from shoosmiths offering to settle out of court.

 

Many thanks,

 

AngryApe.

[SP500]

Hi guys, just read the most recent post - I am unsure when the overdraft was called in but I believe the salary would have stopped being paid in during summer 2005. I have sent the SAR request, and a CPR request to shoosmiths followed by an CPR urgent reminder a week later (both recorded delivery) and have not even had a letter confirming receipt of my request. As its coming up to a week from the urgent reminder, do you think I should go to the court for an N244 request to produce the documents else strike out?

 

Thank you in anticipation....

 

AngryApe

 

Whilst not being experienced in the legalities, after a lot of reading here, I'm of the same mind with mine AA, prepare a "put up or shut up" N244 application to be the best course of action since without documents we're unable to defend properly.

Hopefully, someone experienced in these matters will be able to confirm?

 

There already appears to be several areas of defence, namely; whether debt is statute-barred, amount of charges + compound interest leading to a possible counter-claim, and the assignment.

[angryape]

Thanks SP500. I have just been through the same procedure with AG but with different solicitors for a loan related to the same account - they at least had the courtesy to acknowledge my letters and then once the N244 was sent, they sent me and the court a letter saying that as their client could not access the documents they would like the court to strike out. I am hoping that in this case, there are actually no documents either, the fact they are ignoring my letters is raising my suspicions that they are just hoping to get judgement by default.

 

Ill get the forms for the N244 asap - thanks again SP500

 

AngryApe

[angryape]

Hello again folks. Just an update - I received a letter from the court after filing my N244 saying they will move the matter to my local court. Until today I had not even received acknowledgement of my CPR request or CPR urgent reminder that I sent the plaintiff. Today I have received a "notice of change of solicitor" the covering letter says that the matter is now going to be dealt with by Arrow Globals specialist litigation team and to ensure any future correspondence is addressed correctly. The court doc says that they will be acting in person.

 

I imagine this is all just a waste of time as they dont seem to have the docs and from my experience, the court will give them a time limit to show what I have requested in my CPR or will strike out - but does anyone have any experience with this happening before - are there any new tricks they will try through this method?

 

Many thanks as always!

 

AngryApe

[angryape]

Hello again folks! I received my SAR back brom HSBC today - it appears the last time money was paid into my account by my previous employer was the end of August 2005. However, there were some credits after this in Oct but they appear to be HSBC reversing direct debits and transferring money between my accounts themselves. I assume these movements do not count against the statute barred rule? Could anyone please advise on this, and what my next move should be? I assume I should write to the court and Arrow Global to inform them the debt is statute barred?

 

Many thanks

 

AngryApe

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Angryape,

To be certain, you need to check the communications log in your SAR. Does it note if/when a Default Notice was issued? Anything showing the first demand for full payment?

Did they send a copy of the T&C's? If so check these too for what it says about default/termination process....

[angryape]

Hi Elsa, thank you for your reply - I have just been through the SAR again - couldnt find a default notice or any terms & conditions. It appears that after my last payment (employer wages) in Aug 2005, the only activity going into my account was when direct debits were taken back by the bank and when the bank closed a related savings account, it transferred the funds (pennies) into the current account. Do you think I should just wait for my N244 to come through and see if this time they actually have any documents? They still haven't even acknowledged my CPR31.14 request which suggests to me that they dont have any documents and once the N244 will ask to drop the case as they did with my previous one.

 

Should I sit tight or send Arrow a letter saying its statute barred?

 

Many thanks

 

AngryApe

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Angryape,

Sorry for delayed response, you could really do with more help than me on here. (If you get stuck hit the !triangle and ask the site team for help)

Might be an idea to pm Andyorch for help too.

What did you ask for in the N244 and what was the time limit?

[angryape]

Hello again - sorry for the delay in getting back but I thought it was better to wait until I actually had some details from the court. My application for an order to produce documents or strike out has been given a hearing date end of next month. I am pretty sure that it is statute barred and wonder, should I send the statute barred letter to the claimant now, or send it to the court, or show my SAR evidence at the hearing, or none of the above? I have a feeling that they probably wouldnt turn up seeing as they havent responded to me CPR requests at all. They will be receiving a letter notifying them of the hearing today.

 

Many thanks,

 

AngryApe

[angryape]

Hi Folks - wondering if I could get any advice on how to prepare for court in late January. From looking at other threads, I assume I will need a skeleton argument to pass to the judge ahead of the hearing, does this have to fit a certain format of could it just be a description of my side of things.

 

If that is the case, would I just list that...

 

I received the claim form on x date, requested docs under cpr31.14 by recorded delivery and received no response,

 

Sent an urgent reminder by recorded delivery and received no response,

 

Is this enough to get my order? ALSO - and Im unsure whether I should have brought this up first.... I received my SAR info back and the debt was not acknowledged for just over 6 years, making it statute barred. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I dont want to mess this up.

 

 

Thanks in anticipation,

AngryApe

[angryape]

Just had my day in court - plaintiff instructed someone to attend at last minute. He met me before the case and advised that it would not get struck out as it takes 6-8weeks to get the information i requested, from the client. But he admitted he didnt even have the particulars of claim and the client was not answering his calls.

 

The judge was really nice, said he had read my letters and pointed out that there were various errors on the particulars of claim. Asked why the plaintiff had ignored my letters and rudely not responded once. The representative said that it took a long time to get the docs, the judge pointed out that they had more than 3 months already, that he found it impossible to feel sympathy for the plaintiff and then asked me if I would like costs as he was striking it out.

 

I got the cost of my order and postage etc. Thanks so much to the CAG users who helped me on this. It wasnt a scary experience at all, its just a small room with the three of us present. I didnt feel bullied for not having legal representation or anything like that.

[AndyOrch]

Well done Angry delighted for you.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

Well done - Have amended title to reflect success

[AndyOrch]

Many thanks CB

 

Andy