HSBC OD - terms and conditions not considered personal information

[daisy102]

yes please delete for me I dont know how to do that. Thank you for the information I will ignore them for now amd wait for them to act. Thanks again

[daisy102]

Thanks Pimlico, have found out how to delete attachments and have done it.

[Pimlico]

Daisy let me know as soon as they send their next lot of nonsense to you and we will see what it says LOL !!!!!! HSBC's behaviour is dreadful and it is a matter of time before they end up having to account for their unreasonable actions til then just be patient!!!! My advice to you is worry about your present finances and manage those because at least if you can do that then you will avoid future hassles. The older the hsbc thing gets the less likely it is that they will get anything! How many people do you see who have debts past eight years complaining on this site? not many because the companies largely give up or they are statute barred most of the stuff people complain about is within the last few years. So its a matter of just being patient!

Pimlico

[daisy102]

Hi

 

Will update of course, present finances are very good, up to date with everything, thanks to the breathing space I have been given by CAG. We have no other unsecured credit other than the few I have posted about on here, two of which are already in court with the same creditor. I am happy to let a judge decide the outcome of these although I will defend them to the end.

 

I agree HSBC's actions are horrendous and i'm convinced now they deliberately set out to keep us in their clutches for evermore.

 

Thank you all very very much. I know I've said this before but if it wasn't for this site I believe the bank would have destroyed us.

[daisy102]

Hello

 

If a bank refuses to send terms and conditions for a bank account as they consider them not personal information could it then be argued that the terms and conditions they send for any other account are also not personal information and could this argument be used as part of a defence.

 

Any help or comments would be appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[Guest]

Hello

 

could this argument be used as part of a defence.

 

Any help or comments would be appreciated.

 

 

Thank you.

 

defence to what? probably no, in answer.

see what is 'personal data' re the dpa. wouldn't affect the general application of terms.

imo

Edited October 13, 2011 by Ford

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

Thank you for replying, I will read up on the dpa.

 

I was refused the terms and conditions for a bank account asked for in a sar because they say they are not personal information. This I understand as they dont contain my name or any other personal information about me.

 

I was sent a blank agreement and terms and conditions for another account also under a sar and wondered why the difference. This particular account is stayed at court. It seems to me the bank want it both ways, sending terms and conditions when it suits them. This is why I asked whether I could argue this in my defence, that the terms and conditions are not part of the agreement as they are not personal to me.

 

 

Thanks again

[Guest]

hi

re 'personal data', see post #193 here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?305755-Robinson-Way-\-Harwich-Farrelly-issue/page10

wouldn't rely on your latter point, imo. in general, depending on the circumstances, they may just need to show that any terms were in application at the time of any alleged agreement.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Ford
typo

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

Thanks for the link. Have read dpa, your help as always is taken seriously and I thank you for that. It keeps me focussed.

 

Thanks again and if I may come back with any more questions I would be grateful for your opinion.

 

Best wishes

[Guest]

hi

as suggested, wouldn't rely on a difference between what's sent under one dsar and another separate dsar as you mentioned. imo.

is the stayed case the one i previously posted on? has there been any developments?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Ford
typo

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Terms and conditions are not individual to you. They are sent out to many many people. I would imagine that if the terms were negotiated on an individual basis then they would become personal data.

 

Certain companies will send T's&C's as part of a SAR while others don't (CitiFinancial being one)

Even companies that don't normally send out T's&C's but have a set available will include them

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

I understand now about the dpa and personal information and wont rely on that. Yes the claim that is stayed is the one you posted on and no there has been no developments at all with this, I'm still waiting for them to respond to the cpr 31.14 request. My other thread is still stayed also, no developments there either.

 

Thank you silverfox, the terms and conditions were not personally negotiated, although I'm still puzzled as to why the bank sent the t&c for one account and refused them for another!

 

Thanks again both

[Guest]

Hi Ford

 

......., although I'm still puzzled as to why the bank sent the t&c for one account and refused them for another!

 

Thanks again both

 

it's ad hoc unfortunately. as silverfox says, one may send certain info (even if it may not be technically 'data' as defined) whilst another won't for that very reason!

also, particularly where they don't have the old terms on record!

imo

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

That could be the reason then, the account originates from early nineties.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

just to add. if there is a document with your personal details etc on it then it should be subject to a sar. even if it also contains terms, or whatever.

a cca request should at least provide a copy of terms at the time, and current.

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

Just to keep you up to date, I have already made a sar request for this account, I received a few statements but nothing more. I eventually reported them to the ico who did not uphold my complaint, the bank told them t&c were not personal information so did not have to supply them and the bank also wanted clarification on what exactly a facility letter is! I will go through the sar information again in case I missed anything, I received a huge box of stuff for a few accounts, I will let you know if I find anything, but I dont think I will. In the sar letter I sent I asked for documents and anything with my name on, I didn't ask for facility letters, the bank also told the ico that they did not have to provide anything that wasn't asked for in the original sar or anything after that date. I understand this. Do you think I could sar them again and ask for the facility letters or because I have heard nothing from them since, should I leave well alone. The bank may be waiting for me to make the next move and ask for the information, this account has gone very quiet.

 

Thanks again

[daisy102]

Like the smileys:-)

[daisy102]

Oh forgot, I also made a cca request and the bank claimed part v exemption.

[Guest]

hi

oh ok, it is for an o/d. they should know what a letter is that outlines/confirms the o/d facility!

a dsar response should not be restricted to what happens to be exampled/reference items in a request letter when the dsar is for all the data (as defined) that they hold. for eg the cag template says '...Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following.....'. There is s7 (7) DPA that they may be trying to rely on, but that seems to require that the request letter specifically limits the request to that mentioned/itemised!

yes, a dsar is usually from date of receipt, but 'may' take account of any amendments/deletions since then if such would have been made anyway (S8 (6) )

re doing another one. when was the last one? a 'reasonable interval' would be required.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Ford
typo

[daisy102]

Hi again

 

Have just read s7 and s8 dpa and understand thank you.

 

I adapted the template letter from here for the sar and asked for all data which was not limited to the following, copies of application forms credit agreements and t&c from inception. I did'nt use the words facility letter. I think the bank are just being awkward and messing about to be honest.

 

The sar was sent in july 2010.

Non compliance letter was sent in september 2010

Complaint to ico was sent october 2010

Reply not upholding complaint received may 2011

Letter received from metropolitan may 2011 putting account on hold for a few weeks.

 

No further correspondence sent or received since.

 

This account has gone from bank, metro, dg, cdru and back to metro. Perhaps I should leave well alone for the time being, any opinions would be welcome.

 

Thank you Ford as always

[Guest]

that's what i mean. you requested all data, so their response should not be limited (as they say) to just the specific items you also mentioned in your request letter.

[daisy102]

Hi Ford

 

Understood, in that case perhaps the bank has nothing else to send as they have in previous letters stated they have complied with the dpa so it may not be worth sending another sar. All they have sent for this account is a few statements, a list of charges and a recent facility letter, nothing for the opening of account.

 

Thank you, I value your opinions and always learn something new.

[Guest]

hi

you said earlier that '....the bank also told the ico that they did not have to provide anything that wasn't asked for in the original sar...' what i thought from that was that the bank was not sending you all data but only concentrating on what you listed in your letter. and so, i was saying that they must send all data as that is what you asked for, and they should not just focus on what you listed. (have i misread/confused things? )

[daisy102]

Hi

 

No you havn't misread or confused things, would it help if I uploaded the ico letter for you to read. I did ask for all information, the bank did say t&c were not personal information and did'nt have to be supplied. Perhaps it's me not explaining very well. I'm happy to upload it. I dont know if the bank has sent me everything they have, they do say they have complied, but I would have thought they would have the original application if nothing else.

[Guest]

hi

should be ok without the upload.

as it is an o/d with exemption, the o/d facility letter (at the time) should've covered the terms of the o/d.