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I am a sole trader. ,

I was taken to court by a company because at the time I could not afford to pay,

this was followed more or less immediately by a HCEO calling at my shop demanding money.

 

The original debt was £3701.57 with court costs etc

the charge became £4260.12.+ Sherforce costs made the final amount £8134.92.

 

I made an arrangement and started paying them off on a high weekly payment.

Three months into the agreement, I went away on family business,

 

while I was gone, Sherforce called into the shop, and wanted the full amount paying or they would take our equipment.

 

I managed to borrow some money from a relative and paid them off there and then.

 

Having read a lot on HCEO it seems to be recommended to pay up and try to claim the money back afterwards.

 

I wrote to Sherforce explaining that I thought they had vastly overcharged me,

 

a reply came back they agreed with me and were willing to return £432.00,

or I could let the matter go before the Master.

 

I want to take them to county court,

but am a bit scared of doing this without help,

in case I make a complete mess and end up owing them again.

 

Can you help me please?

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Hi, I have moved your thread to the Bailiffs forum where you will get more replies.

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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In order to make any claim you will need to know where precisely any overcharging has been applied.

 

You need to obatin a copy of the statment where the precise fees will be listed.

 

Have you received a Statement of Account and if so, what charges have been applied.

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Sherforce are well known for loading their fees, most of the initial fees are included before anyone has even left the Office. What paperwork do you have? It will also serve a purpose to submit a request for a SAR - cost is £10 but should produce results, this should tell you at which stage charges were added.

 

PT

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Do not let them get away with this

 

You are in the right place for help read as much as you can on this forum and request the SAR and then apply for a cost assessment hearing

 

 

onlyme and many more

 

Round 2 perhaps

 

:boxing::boxing:

 

PT

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It seems to me that sherforce have cycles of overcharging that get highlighted on this forum.

 

They get a bloody nose off some one that has gained help here and then hide for a few months before starting the process all over again

 

We really need to get a grip of these people they are destroying lives by continually overcharging

Surely someone at the High court has noticed this if not it really is time they did

 

onlyme

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Write on the back of the postal order " fee for subject access request " just in case they think you're sending a payment - also write your name and address on the back and take a photocopy of the front and back of the order.

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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  • 1 month later...

I had a long battle with these people which I eventually won, due in no small measure to the wonderful people who helped me on this forum. I was fortunate insofar as I was able to pay off the original debt but Sherforce still came after me for their outrageous fees. If they are still up to their old tricks, then they are likely to be still exploiting rule 12 of the Schedule of Charges contained in the HCEO Regulations 2004. This is what I took issue with, because it states:

 

"For any matter not otherwise provided for, such sum as a Master, district judge or costs judge may allow upon application."

 

When you get a statement from Sherforce, which should specify where in the regulations it states that they can claim certain fees, I would expect there to be a considerable sum "justified" by this rule. My argument with them was that the rule clearly states that they must APPLY for the fees FIRST, which they argued was not how it worked in practice, i.e. according to them these fees could only be challenged by the debtor after they have been applied. I have always maintained that this is NOT what the rule says, and that they have been abusing this rule outrageously, because the other rules are very specific in what they can charge - but these are not nearly enough money from their point of view.

 

You do not say who the original creditor was but, depending on who they are, it may be possible to deal with them direct, which is what I did. Some here would argue that this is not the way to deal with the situation, but it worked for me, in fact I did this with 2 creditors who had hired Sherforce. Whatever I was able to pay, I paid direct to the creditor. A lot depends, as I said, on who the creditor is but it remains an option for you.

 

See what you get back from Sherforce by way of fee explanation. But take heart, it is possible to beat these people.

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  • 1 month later...

After calling Sherforce numerous times, and eventually their "legal" department, I eventually got six or seven pages of everything they did and the charges - although most of the charges are at the very edge of the page or not showing at all- I have contacted them again asking for a more clearly set out list. Regarding the rule which states they must apply to the for the fees first - I already challenged them on the legality of that, their reply was that they don't have to make application in respect of every case, and "they make these charges all the time" and did not have to ask the judge to allow them. I'm not sure whether the original creditor would help me, they were not very enthusiastic when I asked them sometime back.

The information I have received from Sherforce, now I have it, what should I look for in it which will help me to try to get some of the excessive charges returned?

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Post exactly what was charged with excuse that they tried to state !!

 

Someone will take a look at tell you what's what.

 

Don't put down the exact charges ie if they charged £575 just put £580 as they are known to trawl through forums

My respect to people who post regularly and help people out on here. Without your help alot of wrongs would have been committed.

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They are quite correct in that they do not have to apply for permission to make dubious charges,but those charges must be jusified.

 

They should have supplied in reply to your SAR a breakdown of the charges and a copy of the intra net notes from the screen shot of the account which outlines every step of the enforcement and at which point each charge was applied in relation to what work was carried out.

 

PT is the one to ask for an opinion as to what charges are "correct" so if you do not feel comfortable posting the docs on the open forum you can always send him a PM to take a look and then post with your intentions to recover the charges.

 

When will these people learn forums like cag have caught up with them and it is no longer in their interest to continue ripping people off with their ridiculous fees.

High Court Masters have spoken out against their continual run to get protection for their crimes so why, why, why do they still call their industry into disrepute.

Even the Queen B of Sherforce admits they add these charges in the hope of getting away with it...."some we win some we lose but the next writ is just around the corner" IMO that comment should have had her and Sherforce answerable to those in high places and the Lord Chancellor should be ashamed to have her in office.

 

It is said "what goes around comes around" so perhaps they should be careful.

 

WD

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have recently had a 16 page list of every conversation and a list of every one of:-x the charges are listed as follows:

10.12.09 - Cost added at Warrant 1st visit fee - £180.00

General charges - no amount

Admin charges £300.00

cost added at warrant creation £160.00 - no explanation

attendance to remove 700.00

attendance to remove 700.00

removal contractor fee 180.00

attendance to remove fee 700.00

attenance to remove fee 700.00- it states equipment on van (nothing every moved from office)

admin fee 180.00

attendance to remove fee 700.00

deleted 1 x attendance to remove fee -700.00

deleted 1 x 175.00 -180.00

added removal contractor fee no amount

attendance to remove fee 700.00 again states on van - not right

attendance to remove admin fee no amount

 

Explanation of fees

 

The payment plan mangement fee covers necessary work undertaken when a judgement debtor seeks to pay by instalments and the judgement creditor accepts the debtors offer.

Financial Management fee covers the costs of running a finance department to administer and process payments of all types that are dcollected Enforcement officers attending on writs. It covers the cost of clearing items,reporting,accounting to an liasing with the judgement creditor.

The attendance with a fee to remove fee is charges to cover the cost of a trained Sherforce Enforcement officer carrying out attendance at the premises of a judgement debtor to attempt to obtain payment of all sums due under the writ including travelling time and also the associated administrative task in completing paperwork and recording details of the attendance in order to be able to report to the judgement creditor etc.,

 

They also add:

We note your request for details of the consent received from the costs judge or district judge to apply the costs and would like to inform you that it is not necessary to make an application in relation to each item 12 fee. In any event the fees charged by Sherforce have been tested and allowed by the court in previous application to the court for assessment of the fees.

 

I hope you can help me, I really think I have been fleeced:mad2:

 

 

 

 

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I would like to make a suggestion.

 

A copy of your breakdown of fees should be sent as soon as possible to the High Court Enforcement Officers Association but more importantly, to the Ministry of Justice who are presently putting together the final part of the public consultation on the regulation of the bailiff industry.

 

I can send you details of the relevant persons to whom your letter should be addressed.

 

These fees are simply incredible !!!

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Those fees are simply outrageous, and cannot be justified by the nonchalant remarks regarding previous fees allowed by a Master

 

"We note your request for details of the consent received from the costs judge or district judge to apply the costs and would like to inform you that it is not necessary to make an application in relation to each item 12 fee. In any event the fees charged by Sherforce have been tested and allowed by the court in previous application to the court for assessment of the fees."

 

When you do as TT suggests highlight that imho

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Tomtubby,

 

Would you please forward me the addresses as mentioned as I have some serious issues that I need to bring to the attention of those on high!!

 

Towards the end of last year I actually lost a summary fee hearing regarding the excessive fee 12 charges and got hit with legal fees to boot.

Then they failed to provide me with a hard copy of the Judgement from the High Court but still turned up and wheel clamped my car demanding full payment whilst adding further fee 12 charges to add insult to injury.

 

I paid this in full there and then to get my vehicle unclamped as I was unable to run my business without transport.

I then sent then a strongly worded email stating that they were in contempt of court by not providing me with the Court Order before attending and also stating that, again, they had added fee 12 charges without the court approval.

 

Today I received another summons to appear at another summary hearing for the princely sum of £83.00 which was what was added!!!

 

I find it utterly amazing that the courts are actually allowing these people to use them in this way!

How can this be justified when they already have my full payment?

 

I'm fighting angry now and want to take these bar-stewards to the cleaners so any input from knowledgeable members would be gratefully received.

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I would be grateful if you would let me have the details of the people I need to send this information to. These fees have crippled my business. Do you think I would be able to reclaim some of these charges back from them?

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I have sent the OP a PM asking if they can scan & send the appropriate docs for an opinion. If the OP is willing to do this all future messages will also be copied to the Site Team. Reasons for this are the nature of the documentation and the fact those on the other side also look in.

 

PT

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I have sent the OP a PM asking if they can scan & send the appropriate docs for an opinion. If the OP is willing to do this all future messages will also be copied to the Site Team. Reasons for this are the nature of the documentation and the fact those on the other side also look in.

 

PT

 

I agree anything that could give Sherfarce forward notice of OP's course of action or some of the advice given if it could help Sherfarce counter any action should be avoided

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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