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Old MBNA Card + LINK + County Court Action - Your advise please ** Set a Side/now defence**


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No problemo now don't leave it another 4 months before we hear from you:wink:

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Well the day has arrived, had very little sleep due to a very long drive from Skye (work related) and then could'nt sleep thinking about today.

 

I have gone over things so many times in my mind, that I am in danger of disappering in ever increasing circles.

 

So last request before 2.30pm this afternoon, for any advice regarding how I am approaching this..... Any points of law I may need to bring up ? on my orginal request to set aside ? (See Below for the reasons I detailed)

 

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Hi HTH. Probably want to stay off of 'points of law' at this stage unless you're well rehearsed. Keep it simple if possible.

 

read some of the early pages on this thread >>>>> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?191353-What-if-the-Judge-asks.....................-....

 

Good luck for later today. Hope it goes well for you.

 

Mike

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Good luck HTH. I'm sure you will be fine.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks all. Just going through some docs, and I have seen that that original debt was £7,060.80 - MBNA Docs show debt was £7,834.08 when sold to DCA (would love to know how much they paid), BUT the DCA statement shows the debts as £7,835.80.

 

Only £1 difference....BUT, is it worth making a point of this mistake and that possibly there are other mistakes which I need time to go through with a fine tooth comb ?

 

I think my main paint is that the copy of ORGINAL App and Terms & Conditions, what I have been sent is clearly my orginal application (which is unreadable) and 5 pages of a later terms & conditions which are nothing like the original.

 

Cannot remember the last time I had butterflys in my stomache like I do now :-) think is was my wedding 30+ years ago.

 

 

H

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Thanks Pru.

 

Well been back about 40 mins now and feel totally drained. Got there and was initially told there was no representation from the "Others", bugger me 10 mins later their Solicitor turned up (Freelance apparantly). Asked if we could have a chat, which I agreed. To be honest the experience was nothing like I expected. The Solicitor was very pleasant, the Judge was very pleasant.

 

Basically the Judge was miffed at the "Others", in his words "he could write more on the back of a fag packet, than they had bothered to do on the court documents".

 

I was asked if under CPR (cant remember the section) if I felt I could defend OR if I had extenuating circumstances why he should "Set Aside".

 

I basically told him that my whole defence was based on sight of the ORIGINAL contract and Terms and Conditions. The solicitor argued that I already had these on several occassions..... (and the Judge looked annoyed).

 

I pointed out (and gave him a copy) that the agreement which was in fact the Application was very faded, about a 10th generation copy, and you could hardly make anything out, on the other hand, the 8 pages of T's&C's were perfectly readable, where initially he did'nt see a problem with that. I pointed out on Page 2 of the terms, it was stipulating charges for late payment, etc etc and this was fixed at £12.

 

This indicated that these terms were from a much later agreement as this was not laid down by OFT in 2001 when I signed my agreement.........He agreed.

 

Basically to cut a long story short:

 

  • He set aside the judgement until September
  • He directed that the other side MUST put forward FULL POC
  • He directed that the other side MUST produce the ORIGINAL documents I have requested
  • He directed that the other side MUST produce a full financial breakdown of what they are claiming
  • He directed that the other side MUST produce Credit Card history from the point of arrears to the current date, to show all charges levied.

and there was another 3 points he directed on. He basically kicked their backside. He also directed that IF they mess me around with documents that are clearly NOT the originals, he will have them in court to answer to him.

He further pointed out that had this been court and not chambers, they would be gone, he told the solicitor that her client cannot just bowl into court stand there and say "that bloke owes me £8k, make him pay now" ...... It does'nt work like that!!!!.

When he was asking me questions, I got the distinct impression he was "steering me" :-)

I have 6 weeks to file a defence, subject to them producing the goodies. He commented that on the information they had provided me, I had no chance of defending myself.

 

Outside the court, when walking away with the solicitor, she said she did'nt think they could produce the documents.........That's faith for you :-)

He advised that I entered into negotiations with them, which I indicated I had already tried.....Maybe this will change their minds.

I did point out to him from the start, I full accept that there is a debt, and I must pay, its just the amount I dispute, given the vast amount of interest the "others" have been adding.......... That seemed to earn some sort of "brownie point".

 

 

So all in all, well happy with the result, and the ordeal was'nt too bad once I get the "cotton wool" out of my mouth, and managed to stop my shaking limbs banging on the desk :-)

 

 

H

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Well done HTH

 

And a very understanding DJ from all accounts.Not as bad as you imagined then!! Stop watching legal documentries:wink:

Ok lets see what they can disclose before we prepare the defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Yep no more TV now :-) ..... He really was genuine, we had a chat about the Scottish Highlands and some other stuff, very understanding of my plight I am happy to say.

 

But I have to say a massive thanks to yourself and the rest of the forum, if it was'nt for you being there with words of encouragement I would of buckled a long time ago.

 

 

Thanks

 

H

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I have altered your thread title HTH to reflect round 1 and hopefully encourage more viewings.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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and hopefully encourage more to venture forward against these people, they pray on people's misfortune and misery, and I do believe with the way things are going, that the "little man" will eventually get there :-)

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Yep no more TV now :-) .....
lol

 

Well done.

 

Mike

________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

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Phew, good news - lets hope you get the same judge next time round :)

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  • 2 months later...

Well its been a good few weeks since I had my little win. Had the documents from the Court to state that Link had to provide to me by the 14th July 2012 the various documents I had requested in their orginal format, which included terms and condition.

 

Well the 14th came and went and no docs, although they did turn up around 24th July.

 

Which did'nt help me as I was working away. My part of the court thing was to submit a defence based on the documents provided, by the 14th August.

 

This has not totally screwed my timings up.

 

So the questions are:

 

1. How do I stand with Link NOT providing the documents within the timescale and date dicated by the judge ?

 

2. As they were well and truly late in providing the docs, this now affects my preparation of defence, how do I stand regards to this ? can I ask for that time frame to be extended ?

 

 

Okay the major bit. What is really entailed by "Preparing a defence" ? how far do I go ? and whats the best advice you can offer.

 

Hopefully will get this sorted one way or another this year, as its causing too many sleepless nights :-(

 

Many thanks and look forward to your responses

 

 

HTH

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How was the original order worded.. did it give you a certain time, after the provision of the documents to prepare your defence. Or did it give you a specific date ? If the latter, then it matters not a lot that they produced the documents late, although you can mention this in your defence.

 

How has it affected the preparation of your defence?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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It stated that they must provide me with the documentation requested by 4pm 14th July 2012.

 

It then further stated that I have to submit a defence by 4pm 14th August 2012

 

It has affected it in that I am now way behind on preparing this due to working away (which I explained to the Judge). Had the documents been provided when they should of, then I was working locally and would of had ample time. However, after that date I have spent a great deal of my time on the road and living in hotels, which is much more difficult to prepare anything when you are working day and night.

 

One of the documents I asked for in its orginal format was the "Agreement" including orginal terms and conditions. Which I dont believe they have supplied, but I will upload those later on to get your views.

 

The issue with the docs they have provided is that they are in fact about a 10th generation copy, so its practically impossible to make out the writing. Thier solicitor did produce a document in court that was of a similar standard and the judge more or less refused to entertain it.

 

Once I get to an office where I can scan, I will upload the documents to get advice on.

 

In addition, the statements they have now provided clearly show all the £25 they have charged for late payment, etc. So I need to calculate all that to claim that. There are other charges within that, and again I will upload as I will need advice as to what I can claim back and what I cannot.

 

HTH

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Ok, I understand.. well the document they provide must be legible so that is one part of your defence sorted.

 

You can claim back default/penalty charges for late or returned payments. I cant think of any other charges that MBNA would have applied to the account.

 

You will need to complete a spreadsheet for reclaiming these.. I think it is the 2nd spreadsheet in the link below that you will need.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Cabot v Bachellier.pdf

 

This might help if your document is illegible.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Well finally got home late last night and managed to sort out the PDF's to upload. I did'nt realise the copies were as bad as they were, so I will let you form your own opinions.

 

Any advice and guidance "How-to" put together a defence pack and what format I should submit to the court.......would be very much appreciated.

 

HTH

Judgement.pdf

Agreement with T&C.pdf

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Yuk, they are poor copies arent they ?

 

Harrison v Link Financial Ltd ALL ER (2011).pdf

 

andyorch - donkeyB and pipster would be the people you need to help you put together a credible defence.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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