Me and Various Benefits

[Nystagmite]

Er, the capital (regardless how OP came into it) is the OP's own money.

[confusedbunny]

Of course you are entitled to a holiday, just as long as it is paid for out of your own money and not out of this capital with the intention of reducing it to possibly claim HB.

By asking the questions on here you are demonstrating that you have it in your mind now before you get the money on how you can use it AND be able to claim HB. Is that not being intentional deprivation?

 

No, i am looking at the bigger picture for my own sake. I am looking at "if" i end up in that situation.....thats all.....as no-ones job is guaranteed nor, is good health! thats how i ended up like this for the last year!! so i am talking from personal experience.....

[confusedbunny]

Er, the capital (regardless how OP came into it) is the OP's own money.

 

yes, thats my thoughts exactly!

[taraquin]

yes, thats my thoughts exactly!

 

But you will still have to account for the use of the money that you receive to the Council for any HB claim, even if that claim is made months after you have received that money and 'spent' it. You have to show that you did not have it in your mind at any time that spending it would give you the right to claim HB.

By asking the what 'if' question on here you are demonstrating that you do have it in your mind.

 

If you are that concerned about your possible inability to pay all of your rent at some time in the future, why don't you invest the money when you get it, so that it is there as a buffer to use to live off until you can find suitable employment?

[confusedbunny]

i understand your point but realically, no investment or permanent employment come with guarantee's either! i am merely need clarification....

[divadoll]

If you are not in the benefits system, then its does not matter what you spend your money on, they only request 2 months bank statements when u submit a claim,

they only want to know monies you get my in the future not in past as when you recieved the funds you were not on HB ben.

[flumps1976]

When you apply for your HB in the future if you need to, then you will more than likely be asked to provide bank statements etc for the 3 months prior to making the application.

The items that are more than likely to be allowed are items that need to be replaced e.g fridge freezer not working efficently or car broke down and new vehicle required. Paying back debts is different, e.g you owe £5 on a credit card unless you have a letter from the credit card company stating that the debt is required to be repayed with immediate effect on receipt of the money that can be treated as paying off debt to reduce your capital. Again unless you have a legal document from friends or family stating that you borrowed the money and that it is to be repaid in full on receipt of the money then that is unlikely to be allowed.

Going on holiday is a luxury so that is also unlikely to be allowed (it is a luxury regardless if you are employed or unemployed).

 

I used to process IS claims and have very little knowledge of HB and CtB but would imagine it would be considered in a similar manner and yes I have sat down with a team leader previously and gone through every receipt provided by a customer and double checked figures for the calculation, it was over 10 years ago but things haven't really chnaged that much :o

[confusedbunny]

When you apply for your HB in the future if you need to, then you will more than likely be asked to provide bank statements etc for the 3 months prior to making the application.

The items that are more than likely to be allowed are items that need to be replaced e.g fridge freezer not working efficently or car broke down and new vehicle required. Paying back debts is different, e.g you owe £5 on a credit card unless you have a letter from the credit card company stating that the debt is required to be repayed with immediate effect on receipt of the money that can be treated as paying off debt to reduce your capital. Again unless you have a legal document from friends or family stating that you borrowed the money and that it is to be repaid in full on receipt of the money then that is unlikely to be allowed.

Going on holiday is a luxury so that is also unlikely to be allowed (it is a luxury regardless if you are employed or unemployed).

 

I used to process IS claims and have very little knowledge of HB and CtB but would imagine it would be considered in a similar manner and yes I have sat down with a team leader previously and gone through every receipt provided by a customer and double checked figures for the calculation, it was over 10 years ago but things haven't really chnaged that much :o

 

wow, so even if i am not claiming HB i have "rules" opposed to my spending habits,(even if i dont intend to claim HB!)..(the reality is, most of us do not a financial trail of every penny we spend and then "justifying" it!).How is that acceptable? So effectively, joe bloggs, who works (does not claim any benefits) must account for how he spends his money as he please's just incase in the future his circumstances change and he cannot "prove" his spending 100% along the way he will be refused HB and made homeless?.....it does not make sense....I'm glad i bought this subject up as its a very grey area of confusion for me..

[Nystagmite]

You can do whatever with your money; but will have to show where it's gone. They will then decide if you have deprived yourself of capital in order to get benefits.

[confusedbunny]

You can do whatever with your money; but will have to show where it's gone. They will then decide if you have deprived yourself of capital in order to get benefits.

 

I realise that but what if your intentions is to not claim HB but you make say wrong judgements,work is slow and you live off the money etc then end up with it all dwindled.....where do these "rules" of capital deprivation "in order to get benefits" if that is not your intentions? do you see my point?

[speedfreek]

Capital rules over £16000 nothing. £6000-£16000 you get £1 deducted for every £250 you are above £6000. The deduction of £1 for every £250 is there because they expect you to spend your capital to live. They would also expect for this to happen and over time the capital be reduced and your benefits to rise as the capital come down.

 

Anything close to or over the £6000 lower limit will be checked. Usually this is 3 months worth of bank statements. But if you start a business they may be more thorough and you will probably have to produce all statements for the duration of the business.

 

You may want to try and start getting help for that now I've heard the Princes Trust or similar are helpful for small business setup advice.

 

Now once you 've signed off it's up to you what you do with your money. As long as it's not taking the Michael say like spunking £50,000 on a fancy new hair do, handbag and a pedicure.

 

If you get into to trouble for paying down your debts I'd write to our lovely PM a.k.a. his conference speech

 

Mr Cameron had planned to say: ‘The only way out of a debt crisis is to deal with your debts. That means households – all of us – paying off the credit card and store card bills.’

 

That was changed to: ‘The only way out of a debt crisis is to deal with your debts. That’s why households are paying down their credit card and store card bills.’

[confusedbunny]

thank you for that info. so lets say i had £10k, i would not dream of applying for partially assistance towards my rent as i could pay my own rent til maybe i got down to the last £1k i would be worried where my next month rent is coming from if my income is not enough! would i be entitled at that point?

[speedfreek]

My 1st question would be why would you want to do that?

 

On what you have been informed to do with Capital limits and benefits on this thread your last post really makes no sense whatsoever.

 

The only reason why people have been aggressive towards you in this thread is because you have been extremely ambiguous and have failed to explain exactly what is the issue here.

 

Now if you explain what you have now, what you are getting and where you would like that to go we could advise you. With things like what the outcome would be in paying off the debts etc.Who to approach in setting up business and how it would affect your benefits.

 

So if you would like some serious answers please go back to square one and construct a question/s including all the facts and figures and telling us exactly what you are trying to do/get out of it all.

[confusedbunny]

My 1st question would be why would you want to do that?

 

On what you have been informed to do with Capital limits and benefits on this thread your last post really makes no sense whatsoever.

 

The only reason why people have been aggressive towards you in this thread is because you have been extremely ambiguous and have failed to explain exactly what is the issue here.

 

Now if you explain what you have now, what you are getting and where you would like that to go we could advise you. With things like what the outcome would be in paying off the debts etc.Who to approach in setting up business and how it would affect your benefits.

 

So if you would like some serious answers please go back to square one and construct a question/s including all the facts and figures and telling us exactly what you are trying to do/get out of it all.

 

Ok, I will list the fact and my intentions and hopefully that will give a bigger picture:

 

Currently, I am recieving benefit.....I am due to recieve a lump sum of £20k so obviously i will have to sign off (and anyway, i find the whole benefits system demoralising after working and paying my taxes all my life, so this money is a get out of jail card for me and not feel worthless!)

 

My intentions are, to pay:

 

My rent (say 3 months) £4200 (£1400 pcm)

General/other Living expenses £2000 (over 3 months)

*car £3000

*Holiday £1750

**friend & family debt £2000

***Pay off credit debt £6000

Self-employed investment £1000

 

Total: £19,950

 

 

 

 

My query is:

 

with the ones marked * are they classified as i could have used that money to pay say 2 months rent and told any HB benefit claim would not be considered and re-apply in 2 months time?

 

with the ones marked ** there is no "evidence" of this so would that be up for dispute?

 

with the ones marked *** would the HB (if my self-employed venture does not pay off in the short-term) say that credit debts are non-priority and i should have used that for priority debt?

 

So they are the facts and my intentions.....if i were to apply for HB at any stage to assist me,would it depend upon at what point i apply (according to my bank balance) ? well, basically it would be when i need to apply and that would no doubt be on paying my 3rd months rent? and in what order i pay my debts off right?

[Nystagmite]

with the ones marked *** would the HB (if my self-employed venture does not pay off in the short-term) say that credit debts are non-priority and i should have used that for priority debt?

 

That depends on whether it's a) minimum amount b) a lump sum or c) a final demand for missed payments.

 

What you are doing does sound like deprivation of capital - like the £1750 holiday. Why £3k for a car?

[confusedbunny]

That depends on whether it's a) minimum amount b) a lump sum or c) a final demand for missed payments.

 

What you are doing does sound like deprivation of capital - like the £1750 holiday. Why £3k for a car?

 

-The holiday is for a family of 4 (where's the "rules" to say that is too much? and in who's eye's?)

-I could buy a car for £7k but would rather pay my rent for 4 months! (its my personal choice to spend £3k, who is to say i shouldnt buy a car at all and i might not want a car for £1k that breaks down every 2 mins or a rust bucket!)

-credit debts are full and final payments

 

based on this, my query again is:

 

-if i am not claiming, why would i need to "justify" this kind of spending?

-if i do need to apply for HB when i have exhausted all my money and say have £1k left, I wouldnt need to show bank statements would i to show how the money was spent, right?

-isnt it not based on the time you claim and your bank balance?

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Surely if demoralised of benefits, a 1/750 holiday would not be high on the spend list, that amount would keep you off beneifits nigh on another month?

 

Unfortunately when claiming benefits now or in the future they have to right to full disclosure and will go through it with fine tooth comb.

 

I can understand your point but again others, you are expecting to claim housing benefit in the future hence such large amounts would be deprivation of capital.

 

6,000 for paying off debt, on benefits you can pay 1.00 a month to non priority debts.

 

Its up to you what you do at the end of the day, but do you want to risk getting told you will be treat as havng the capital despite spent it?

 

If not give them a ring, tell them exactly what you plan to do with the money amounts etc.....that you plan then to reclaim housing and see what your response is from the horses mouth, record the call for reference that you did check prior to doing it, but think you will find they have trouble with some of your list, but hey you never know you might get a response you prefer as not happy with help offered here.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Why should you not do what you want?

 

You plan to take tax payers money to pay your housing and have to follow the rules like all of us.

 

Do what you want it is your money, but be prepared you may come unstuck hence the helpful warnings.

[honeybee13]

I agree with watchinginvestigation. I was about to suggest you ring the HB people and ask, in case what you propose to do lands you in trouble.

 

Early on in this thread you said that you had received SMI which is taxpayer funded. I don't know at all, but wonder if this could impact on the capital you are about to receive.

 

My best, HB[13]

[id6052]

what you do with your money is your business, and you are free to spend it on anything you like

 

however with regards to social security benefits, these are aimed at people who do not have the means to support themselves

 

if you have sufficient means to suppport yourself, and you deprive yourself of such means with the intention of obtaining or increasing benefit entitlement, you may be treasted as still having those means

 

a simple example would be if i had £100k savings and no income, and decided to gift all my savings to my brother, the question that would reasonably be asked is how did I expect to support myself when I gave away my savings - if on the same day, I make a claim for IS/HB/CTB, then the question is why should the tax payer be expected to support me when I could have been able to support myself

 

In your case, it is not so straight forward, each case must be looked at on the individual facts

 

the payments of rent and normal living expenses is unlikely to raise much concern, however I would advise retaining as many receipts as possible, especially if buying household goods/furniture/etc - try to keep a papertrail of your expenditure - this is often easier where you purchase things on card - large or frequent cash withdrawals or transfers may cause you difficulty if they suspect money has been siphoned off or hidden elsewhere

 

purchase of car and holiday, definitely make sure you have receipts - the amounts you have stated do not sound unreasonably high - you may need to explain why you chose these things at this time - e.g. you needed a car to help with transport for your business, this was the only opportunity for a holiday for your family and have not had one in 2 or 3 years,

 

In relation to investment in business, I would advise that you ensure you have a separate business account and that the investment is clearly shown in your self-employed records

 

the two issues that may cause difficult is in relation to repayments of debts, the first might be in providing evidence of family/friend debt, the second in relation to why you chose to pay off the full credit debt at this time - if you can satiusfy them in relation to these debts, fine - however even if you dont, then (assuming you have no other capital/savings), the amount of impact would a reduction of £2.60 per week in HB or 80p per week in CTB

[Nystagmite]

I'm now confused:

 

The OP talks about renting / housing benefit and then talks about SMI? You can't claim HB for help with mortgage.

[confusedbunny]

I'm now confused:

 

The OP talks about renting / housing benefit and then talks about SMI? You can't claim HB for help with mortgage.

 

I am currently a homeowner (Part SMI payments being made), selling (hence lump sum and signing off!), going into rental (hence maybe HB at a later stage!)......

[id6052]

confusedbunny, can i check one thing with you, is the house you are planning to rent in future a different property to the one you currently own?

 

the only reason i ask is that some people have got themselves into trouble where they have sold home to a property company/landlord and agreed to rent it back and have ended up in lots of difficulty over it

[confusedbunny]

what you do with your money is your business, and you are free to spend it on anything you like

 

however with regards to social security benefits, these are aimed at people who do not have the means to support themselves

 

if you have sufficient means to suppport yourself, and you deprive yourself of such means with the intention of obtaining or increasing benefit entitlement, you may be treasted as still having those means

 

a simple example would be if i had £100k savings and no income, and decided to gift all my savings to my brother, the question that would reasonably be asked is how did I expect to support myself when I gave away my savings - if on the same day, I make a claim for IS/HB/CTB, then the question is why should the tax payer be expected to support me when I could have been able to support myself

 

In your case, it is not so straight forward, each case must be looked at on the individual facts

 

the payments of rent and normal living expenses is unlikely to raise much concern, however I would advise retaining as many receipts as possible, especially if buying household goods/furniture/etc - try to keep a papertrail of your expenditure - this is often easier where you purchase things on card - large or frequent cash withdrawals or transfers may cause you difficulty if they suspect money has been siphoned off or hidden elsewhere

 

purchase of car and holiday, definitely make sure you have receipts - the amounts you have stated do not sound unreasonably high - you may need to explain why you chose these things at this time - e.g. you needed a car to help with transport for your business, this was the only opportunity for a holiday for your family and have not had one in 2 or 3 years,

 

In relation to investment in business, I would advise that you ensure you have a separate business account and that the investment is clearly shown in your self-employed records

 

the two issues that may cause difficult is in relation to repayments of debts, the first might be in providing evidence of family/friend debt, the second in relation to why you chose to pay off the full credit debt at this time - if you can satiusfy them in relation to these debts, fine - however even if you dont, then (assuming you have no other capital/savings), the amount of impact would a reduction of £2.60 per week in HB or 80p per week in CTB

 

Thank you for your help...i think some people have formed an opinion on here that i am a rip off merchant on here! i am not, i am merely raising a possible concern! yes a car would be needed for work and domestic use and have not had holiday for 14 years and yes i would put the money into an account for self-employemnt.... if i was a drug addict or gambler and didnt spend this lump sum on rent,daily living expenses and x,y,z and just gambling or drugs this would be a whole new thread but i am not, i am merely trying to get advice.....and its not as though i am saying i wont have 3-4 months rent and 3-4 months living expenses and jusy ploughing into the other items then declaring poverty to "end up a scrounger!", i am not!......

[confusedbunny]

confusedbunny, can i check one thing with you, is the house you are planning to rent in future a different property to the one you currently own?

 

the only reason i ask is that some people have got themselves into trouble where they have sold home to a property company/landlord and agreed to rent it back and have ended up in lots of difficulty over it

 

no, its being sold and i am going into private rental.....