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Welcome nightmare


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ok

settlement figure for loan 2 was 6511.15 on 25/2/2005

Mortgage indemnity fee £1100.00

acceptance fee £235

settlement penalty interest £119.43

Loan 3 statement starts on 25/11/2005 with opening balance of £10676.40 NO FURTHER ADVANCE WAS TAKEN!

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ok

settlement figure for loan 2 was 6511.15 on 25/2/2005

Mortgage indemnity fee £1100.00

acceptance fee £235

settlement penalty interest £119.43

Loan 3 statement starts on 25/11/2005 with opening balance of £10676.40 NO FURTHER ADVANCE WAS TAKEN!

 

ok

 

Bit of confusion this end.

 

Loan 2 was refinanced into loan 3 as per earlier posts. Loan 2 settlement in Feb 05....loan 3 starts in Nov 05.....what was the chain of events between Feb 05 and Nov 05 please?

 

ims

 

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Sorry please ignore last post - my mistaksettlement figure for loan2 £6511.15 on 25/02/05

rewrie on 25/2/05 was £10,000

£235 acceptance fee

£1335. mortgage indemnity fee

total rewrite £11335.00 no furher advance received

 

Ok thanks

 

So dates now match.

 

Now, please forgive me but if loan 2 settlement was £6,500 and loan 3 was for £10,000 and there was no further advance given, how is the difference of £3,500 accounted for?

 

ims

 

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This is part of our argument, my daughter has only ever had £5000 cash she has been asking for 2years for full explanations they have sent statements and this is the info the statements give.

The Ombudsman advised Welcome to rewrite loan again with a starting balance of £10,924 - we were given no explanation where this figure came from. I am trying to work amounts back deducting PPI and insurances so i have a credible argument.

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Hi

 

Ok so this is a major issue then.

 

From a mathematical point of view something's not right at this point. If we have loan 2 settlement at £6,500 in round figs and a re-written loan with no further advance but the agreement saying amount of loan of £10,000 then there is a sum of £3,500 unaccounted for somewhere.

 

As I am sure you will agree, the question is who has had it?

 

Do you have any written paperwork confirming the settllemt figure of loan 2 and how they might have made up the £10,000 for loan 3?

 

Have you been able to check any of your daughter's bank statements to ensure that this £3,500 or thereabouts didn't get in there somehow?

 

Please don't get me wrong....I'm not suggesting anything untoward on your daughter's part, I just like to get to the bottom of things.

 

I'm going to have a re-read of the thread and a think and will post aagin later (or tomorrow if my head starts to hurt).

 

ims

 

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I cannot thank you enough for all your help.

We have been over my daughters bank statements (she was even questioning herself has to whether she had received this money and forgotten about it) there was only ever the first two advances which totalled £5000.

I have cca agreements and welcome statements but they do not stipulate how much went to cash advance

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Hi

 

I have had no bright ideas as to where this £3,500 may have gon I'm afraid....but clearly something is not right with their figures given what we have been discussing on this thread.

 

I would be inclined to write to Welcome and request a breakdown as to how the loan 3 figure was disbursed. They must be able to account for all of that money on loan 3. If they cannot then I'm sure fos and the FSA would be most interested.

 

So let's move on with the ppi claim based on the figures we have access to.

 

Loan 2 settlement was £6,511.15 and we know that 9.99% of that was for the PPI...i.e. £650.46. Loan 3 (as we see it at the moment) was for £10,676.40 so the percentage relating to ppi is given by £650.46 / £10,676.40 x 100 = 6.09%. So for every repayment made on loan 3, 6.09% is PPI. Enter these amounts into your spreadsheet.

 

Loan 4 figures polease?

 

Regards

 

ims

 

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Hi

Sorry i am only just getting back to you. We will be on to Welcome first thing tomorrow,

 

OK now back to loans

loan 3 was rewritten for £11335.00 with a closing balance of £10676.40 (if I confused you over this I am very sorry)

 

LOAN 4 WAS REWRITTEN FOR £11850.80

There is still a balance of £13854.41 showing on loan 4, this is the figure the ombudsman are saying they should adjust to put my daughter back in a position she would be in if they had not added any insurances to her loans.

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Hi

 

No probs...we all need a weekend break !

 

So Just to make it clear for me....loan 2 settlement = £6,511.15 and loan 3 amount was £11,335 which, when it was re-written into loan 4, showed a balance of £10,676.40. Loan 4 amount was £11,850.80?

 

I agree that it is loan 4 blance that needs adjusting (as the Ombudsman says) but that adjustment needs to take into account all of the ppi rollovers from the previous loans and the interest thereon. This is what we are trying to arrive at...the total adjustment that should be made so that you can be sure in your own mind that Welcome have not spoofed you on the calculations....which knowing Welcome they will try to do.

 

Regards

 

ims

 

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You have got the figures spot on, all your figures are correct.

 

Welcome even make the statements difficult, they read from back to front, please forgive me if I confuse you.

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Hi

 

ok so as we said above, the amount of ppi involved in loan 2 settlement figure was £650.46. Loan 3 was taken out for £11,335. Using the formula of £650.46 / £11,335 x 100 = 5.73%, we now know that 5.73% of evbery payment made against loan 3 was for ppi so those figures can now be put into the spreadsheet.

 

Loan 3 was settled for £10,676.40 and 5.73% of that was for the ppi part i.e. £611.75. Loan 4 was taken for £11,850.80 so using the formula £ 611.75 / £11,850.80 x 100 = 5.16%. So for every payment made against loan 4, 5.73% of it was for ppi. You can now enter thos amounts into the spreadsheet.

 

When you have finished the sheet, this represents the amounts you have paid against ppi and the 8% interest on those payments. The balance of the PPI loan which has yet to be paid will be rebated against the loan balance.

 

I wuld send a ciopy of the spreadheet to welcome telling them that you have looked at the fogures for the rolled over PPI and this is the amount you are requiring them to repay in addition to the adjustment for the part of the ppi which hasn't become due yet. As fos have made a decision you could aslo send a ciopy of the correspondence to them as well.

 

I take it that Welcome have yet to furnish you with any offer or calculation thus far? If they haven't this shows that you mean business and that you have put some time into working out what they owe you.

 

As said previously, it is important that you also contact them for a breakdown as to how their figures on the refinancing of the loans were arrived at.

 

Regards

 

ims

 

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Hi thank you so much your excellent help, you have been a star.

I now have PPI and insurances worked out for each loan.

I now need help working the loans back because MIF will differ if loans are reduce when PPI ans insurances are taken off

can you help me with this please?

Also is it right that Welcome have charged an acceptance fee for each loan?

Thanks once again you help is invaluable.

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Hi

 

The MIF bit is going to be a bit more complex...

 

Have a look here to start your research...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?238285-MORTAGE-INDEMNITY-FEE-included-on-our-loan/page4&highlight=MIF

 

MIF is going to be a seperate issue from the ppi so get the PPI claim in as the first step.

 

ims

 

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While you could try and work the loans back it won't be a necessary exercise. The adjustment for the ppi will be carried out on loan 4 and should consist of all premiums charged plus the interest we have worked out.

 

Wait and see what Welcome say to the claim and the subsequent adjustment to see if it agrees broadly with what is expected.

 

ims

 

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Hi again

My daughter has been back to the Ombudsman to explain that her working out does not match Welcomes. The Ombudsman is adamant that he has made his final decision and he cannot look at the case again. My daughter asked if he knew how Welcome had arrived at a figure of £10,924.00, the Ombudsman didn't know and wasn't sure if Welcome had put my daughter back in the position she would be if PPI and Insurances had never been added to loan one!!

Where do we go from here?

Should we write to Welcome and ask for a full explanation of their figures - any advice greatly appreciated.

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Hi again,

Welcome phoned my daughter regarding calculations, they explained they cannot send them in writing but assured her they had done exactly as FOS had directed. There has been a slight victory because they explained that £10924.00 was the starting figure less payments already made of £5978 less £100 compensation leaves a balance of £4846 all good and well up to now.

 

My daughter asked for a settlement figure and was told it would be higher than this as there would be a penalty for early settlement.

 

She asked for the terms of the loan and was told it was wait for it - £139 per month until

1st december 2020!!! So in effect if she cannot find £5000 or there abouts to pay them off she will effectively pay them not much short of £14, 000 which was the figure the loan is at anyway.

Can anybody tell me the APR on the loan of £4846 @£139 per month until 2020

Thanks again

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

I am back again. We have moved a little bit forward with this. My daughter has been given help by a family member who is willing to pay Welcome amount outstanding to clear this debt once and for all. Welcome have said they require us to £4846 but this figure will alter slightly when final calculations are done.

We obviously have requested this in writing but welcome are saying they cannot put anything in writing until amount is sent to them.

We are very reluctant to pay a single penny without something in writing, Welcome won't budge so we have reached stalemate, where do we go from here?

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