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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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ross123 - query for Old CoDja please


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My situation is next. I was traveling from station “A” national rail station and there are no barriers and in a rush to Victoria station in the morning to catch my train I forgot to tap my Oyster (I had plenty of money on it) and when I arrived to underground station “B” (which is two stops away from “A”) I tapped there and the TFL representative stopped me, he showed me his badge and asked for my oyster. I gave him, then he checked, and asked which station I am travelling from I told him from station “A”. He asked me why I didn't type, so I responded that I got confused where tap as I was overcharged when I was tapping three times during my previous journey from station “A”. Then he checked my previous travels which I did from (entering from) “B” underground station and he asked if I traveled yesterday I replied yes.

Then he started to question me, I was shocked and panicked and said whether I can pay the fine now, and he responded no and continued to question me and put everything in his notebook. Then he asked my name and I told him my correct name, then he asked if I have an id I said no, then he said that he might invite the police to check me I said that I have my old student card and gave him he took it and recorded it. Then he asked for my address and I gave him full address. Then he called on phone to someone, probably to confirm my address. Then I asked him again if I can pay the fine at the place and he responded no.

After that he gave my Oyster back and said that I will receive a letter in 3-4 weeks and that's it. I want to say that on that spot everyday at least 5-10 people have been stopped and fined or interrogated, and to be honest it looks for me as it became a “tourist trap” to anyone who made a mistake and lots of people are being unfairly fined.

Now the thing is I generally travel from “B” station and all my recording show that I start from there and always complete my journey. The thing is that it turns out that if you tap at “B” inside the station it shows that you entered in “B” station. Now I don't know if they include my previous travels from “B” station as a way that I have been evading previously. So I am seeking for your advice concerning next please.

 

1. Would you recommend to call TFL prosecution office and plead them to settle the case?

2. By your opinion can I plead not guilty in my case for the reason that I was rushing to Victoria to catch a train (I have a copy of my tickets to Victoria train for that day)?

3. Should I plead guilty, and if, will I get Criminal Record?

4. I work in international development sector, mainly with charities and human rights organizations, does this incident affect on my job?

5. What happens if I plead not guilty and how much chances I have in my case to win?

6. Can TFL reason that my travels that I did from (entered from) “B” station can be considered as a fare evasion?

7. In addition, I was previously fined in 2008 or 2009 (don’t remember exactly) and it was my first time travelling in London and didn't see the tapping machine and I appealed but they refused and I still paid 25 pounds, can this incident affect to my present one?

 

Please reply as you would think is most probably happen in my case, and what would be best to do for me.

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I will certainly not give out my personal email address and I notice that you have posted the whole query as a private message too. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't respond to this in that way.

 

I will comment on this post if you or the site team can move it to a thread of it's own please.

 

I think this is really a fairly general enquiry, very similar to many others and perhaps any comments by contibutors to the forum may help someone else too, but such replies are unlikely to be found under this title and it has nothing to do with Court procedure.

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Hello there.

 

I expect you will have more detailed replies from the guys here when they can get to the forum.

 

1. In the meantime, I do know that there is no point in contacting TfL until you have their letter and a reference number for your case. If you ring before this, they won't be able to find your papers.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi Ross123, as honeybee says wait until you get the letter from TfL and try not to worry too much in the meantime. Your error was not a deliberate one you made a mistake it happens you'll probably end up paying a fine at worst

Gbarbm

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Two threads merged.

 

ross123, I have unapproved your duplicate post and merged replies to this thread, please continue to post here regarding this issue.

 

Thanks.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Spell the brother's name right at least! Lol, etc etc.

 

OP started the thread, not me, spelling looks ok in my post :wink: I'll add an 's' to the title, problem solved :-)

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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I want to say that on that spot everyday at least 5-10 people have been stopped and fined or interrogated, and to be honest it looks for me as it became a “tourist trap” to anyone who made a mistake and lots of people are being unfairly fined.

Now the thing is I generally travel from “B” station and all my recording show that I start from there and always complete my journey. The thing is that it turns out that if you tap at “B” inside the station it shows that you entered in “B” station. Now I don't know if they include my previous travels from “B” station as a way that I have been evading previously. So I am seeking for your advice concerning next please.

 

1. Would you recommend to call TFL prosecution office and plead them to settle the case?

2. By your opinion can I plead not guilty in my case for the reason that I was rushing to Victoria to catch a train (I have a copy of my tickets to Victoria train for that day)?

3. Should I plead guilty, and if, will I get Criminal Record?

4. I work in international development sector, mainly with charities and human rights organizations, does this incident affect on my job?

5. What happens if I plead not guilty and how much chances I have in my case to win?

6. Can TFL reason that my travels that I did from (entered from) “B” station can be considered as a fare evasion?

7. In addition, I was previously fined in 2008 or 2009 (don’t remember exactly) and it was my first time travelling in London and didn't see the tapping machine and I appealed but they refused and I still paid 25 pounds, can this incident affect to my present one?

 

Please reply as you would think is most probably happen in my case, and what would be best to do for me.

 

 

Firstly, let me say that you should do nothing until you get a letter from TfL.

 

Now, this appears to be a regular revenue barrier exercise, not 'tourist trap' as you call it and if you did not tap in an Oyster at A but travelled to B without a ticket, then you have avoided the fare between those two points.

 

Yes, if you were fined by a Court in the recent past as you suggest, they may refer to this IF they decide to prosecute

 

You appear to have sent me the whole original post again as a PM. Please stick to posting on this thread and we can respond for everyone else to see. That way, something may be of use to someone else.

 

Come back and post again when you get a letter and tell us what it says.

Edited by Old-CodJA
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  • 1 month later...

Thank you for you advises.

 

I have received my letter from them recently and it is saying that they are giving me an opportunity to explain and comment about the incident. I haven't sent them my letter back and going to say that I am admitting that I failed to pay my fair and asking them to let me pay the fine and settle the case, and I told them that I was in the rush and thus forgot to tap my oyster. I am also including my ticket to my train at Victoria st that I was rushing to catch.

 

So what is your opinion? Will they give me an opportunity to settle the case? Should I call them and ask to settle the case?

 

p.s. I haven't been fined by court before. I just paid my fine immediately when I was fined in 2008 and thus the case was stopped.

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Hello ross123.

 

Thank you for the PMs, but as OC has already said the forum is the place for questions. I'm afraid I'm not one of the transport gurus, so you need to wait until someone in the know arrives on the forum to suggest what you should do.

 

I hope someone will be along soon.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thank you for you advises.

 

I have received my letter from them recently and it is saying that they are giving me an opportunity to explain and comment about the incident. I haven't sent them my letter back and going to say that I am admitting that I failed to pay my fair and asking them to let me pay the fine and settle the case, and I told them that I was in the rush and thus forgot to tap my oyster. I am also including my ticket to my train at Victoria st that I was rushing to catch.

 

So what is your opinion? Will they give me an opportunity to settle the case? Should I call them and ask to settle the case?

 

p.s. I haven't been fined by court before. I just paid my fine immediately when I was fined in 2008 and thus the case was stopped.

 

You can send any evidence that you consider helps your argument. The TOC ticket to/from Victoria isn't relevant to the Oyster journey, but may support your claim that you normally pay fares however, an earlier Penalty Fare on record would show it wasn't a 'one-off'.

 

All you can do is ensure that your letter appears genuine and hope that you are given a sympathetic response.

 

No-one on here can guarantee what the TfL prosecution unit will do, but a genuine apology and offer to pay any reasonable administration costs plus the outstanding fare will be given due consideration.

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You can send any evidence that you consider helps your argument. The TOC ticket to/from Victoria isn't relevant to the Oyster journey, but may support your claim that you normally pay fares however, an earlier Penalty Fare on record would show it wasn't a 'one-off'.

 

All you can do is ensure that your letter appears genuine and hope that you are given a sympathetic response.

 

No-one on here can guarantee what the TfL prosecution unit will do, but a genuine apology and offer to pay any reasonable administration costs plus the outstanding fare will be given due consideration.

 

Thank you for your response. So you think there is a chance that they might settle the case? What about if I call them? Will it work?

Another question for example if they anyway would want to proceed with court, and if I am pleading guilty anyway is there any point to present at court or not since I am admitting that I am guilty?

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I don't want to appear rude and I realise that you are keen to resolve this, but you need to realise that yours is just one of many hundreds of cases that the TfL team will be handling every week. Try to take a little time, don't pressurise yourself or the TfL team.

 

In my experience, those who ring in demanding immediate resolution of their case will be less likely to succeed. You can ring in, but don't be surprised if they will not give a decision over the 'phone.

 

A well worded letter and prompt apology might well work. If not, Magistrates always reserve the greatest credit for those who attend Court, plead guilty and say sorry

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I don't want to appear rude and I realise that you are keen to resolve this, but you need to realise that yours is just one of many hundreds of cases that the TfL team will be handling every week. Try to take a little time, don't pressurise yourself or the TfL team.

 

In my experience, those who ring in demanding immediate resolution of their case will be less likely to succeed. You can ring in, but don't be surprised if they will not give a decision over the 'phone.

 

A well worded letter and prompt apology might well work. If not, Magistrates always reserve the greatest credit for those who attend Court, plead guilty and say sorry

 

I see. Thank you for you significant help. Just what I thought as well that there is no point in calling.

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I am a little confused you enter station "A" a nation rail station and fail to touch in on arrival at station "b" an underground station you touch out so at this point you have been charged £10 on your oyster and have an unresolved journey

 

Or did you try to get out at station "b" without touching out ?

 

 

Is the interface between the Underground and network rail gated ? IE do you have to go out of a set of gates for NR and then back in a set of gates to the underground

Does the history on your oyster show you normally touch in at your home station, and is this the same station you have told the inspector you traveld from that day?

Edited by cletus1
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I am a little confused you enter station "A" a nation rail station and fail to touch in on arrival at station "b" an underground station you touch out so at this point you have been charged £10 on your oyster and have an unresolved journey

 

Or did you try to get out at station "b" without touching out ?

 

 

Is the interface between the Underground and network rail gated ? IE do you have to go out of a set of gates for NR and then back in a set of gates to the underground

Does the history on your oyster show you normally touch in at your home station, and is this the same station you have told the inspector you traveld from that day?

 

There is no gates at station A, its just a tapping machine. When you arrive to station B there is no gates as well but only again tapping machine. So there is no gates between these two stations. My history shows that I enter from station B, which I normally do always. But that day I entered from station A and told him that I was confused and rushed to catch my train and didn't tap.

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I am a little confused you enter station "A" a nation rail station and fail to touch in on arrival at station "b" an underground station you touch out so at this point you have been charged £10 on your oyster and have an unresolved journey

 

Or did you try to get out at station "b" without touching out ?

 

 

Is the interface between the Underground and network rail gated ? IE do you have to go out of a set of gates for NR and then back in a set of gates to the underground

Does the history on your oyster show you normally touch in at your home station, and is this the same station you have told the inspector you traveld from that day?

 

There is no gates at station A, its just a tapping machine. When you arrive to station B there is no gates as well but only again tapping machine. So there is no gates between these two stations. My history shows that I enter from station B, which I normally do always. But that day I entered from station A and told him that I was confused and rushed to catch my train and didn't tap.

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So when you normally enter from station "b" where do you exit? Is it station "a"?

On the day in question did you touch out at station "B" I understand you did not touch in at station "a" this will still result in an unresolved journey

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The point of this being if you end up with an unresolved journey (not touching both in and out) this could have cost you more than the fare... and would support your case that it was an error

 

 

However the TOC may claim you may have travelled further than you say you had!

And if you normally travel every day from station "b" to station "y" which is on the same line but right down the other end .. this will not help your case !

Edited by cletus1
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The point of this being if you end up with an unresolved journey (not touching both in and out) this could have cost you more than the fare... and would support your case that it was an error

 

Yeah I understand. It is just turns out that I tapped at interchange tapping machine. But well I was honest and going to say that I am guilty and did it for this and that reason. I am going to ask them to give me a chance to pay them their admin cost and the fine so it will save them their time and will save me from the stress. Well if they would want to save their time and would consider this they will agree, unless they are really want to bring this court and really want me to get a record. Anyway in both cases I don't see any point if they bring me to the court and charge me or charge me now without court, unless they really want me to teach a lesson which I have learned already. Anyway, they are people and hope they have sense of understanding of other people. We will see. Anyway I have stressed enough and not worried any more, it is not worse of it. I have other stuff to worry, it is not the end of the era ))

 

Thank you for all of you for support and kind advises and wish you enjoy your Christmas!!!

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I read one case when a person went and they settled the case? What about if I call them? I know you already answered but still? And what are the chances that they will settle the case? I wrote on the back of the letter asking to accept my apology and offered to pay any admin costs and the fine.

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I'm afraid that the only answer I can give is just as I said in the answer I gave to your PM.

 

You can only ask, if the company decide not to accept your request, that is their prerogative. If they believe that there is evidence to support the allegation of an offence, they have the right to pursue that through Court action.

 

No-one can give you any definitive assurance on here that they will allow a settlement, but you can keep asking right up until any matter is put before the Court.

 

YOU will have to give the company a compelling reason to agree to your request for any chance of success

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good day everyone.

 

Recently got a mail back from the Prosecution Unit and I though "ok I am in a trouble" and expected that they will in a good scenario charge me 300-400 pounds, but I was happy to find out that they agreed to my offer and offered to settle the case by paying the outstanding fare and fare cost, which in total was less than 100 pounds. I immediately paid via phone and now I am freeman )))

 

I would like to thank for all your assistance and you significant help and thank you for this website for helping people, and my special respect and gratitude to Old-CodJA, man you rock!

 

Best regards to all,

 

p.s. If anyone will be in trouble as I was you may ask my experience and I will be happy to suggest.

 

I'm afraid that the only answer I can give is just as I said in the answer I gave to your PM.

 

You can only ask, if the company decide not to accept your request, that is their prerogative. If they believe that there is evidence to support the allegation of an offence, they have the right to pursue that through Court action.

 

No-one can give you any definitive assurance on here that they will allow a settlement, but you can keep asking right up until any matter is put before the Court.

 

YOU will have to give the company a compelling reason to agree to your request for any chance of success

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