Parking Ticket - No Road Tax - Private Road

[pauby]

I'm hoping somebody can help me with this. Bear in mind I am in Scotland.

 

I have had my car parked outside the house on, what I believed, was a private road since May. It has had no road tax since that time. I have been trying to sell the car but as it was on a private road, there was no issue.

 

I have just noticed there is a parking ticket on the car date 8 September (been on holiday). However, I am wondering if somebody can tell me if it is valid and how to go about proving it's not.

 

There is a main road, maintained by the council. There is a small road off of this that runs in front of the flats that I stay in.. This small road is a dead end - only access in and out the same way. I have only been here 6 months, however the neighbours have told me that the blocks further up the road paid for new tarmac on it as the council have nothing to do with it. So from my understanding this road is therefore private to an extent, but certainly not public.

 

My car is parked about 6 feet off of the main road on this private road.

 

Can somebody tell me:

 

1. If what I say above is correct, is the ticket valid?

2. How do I go about getting information to prove the road is private?

 

I have sold the car tonight (sods law) which is how I found out about the ticket. I have taken photographs to show my car on the road but they show it today. I'm sure neighbours would provide evidence that it was there before the ticket was put on it. Can anybody advise if there is anything more, or any specific photos I should take before the car goes tomorrow morning?

 

I've been googling but the majority of answers seem to be related to England and Wales. I just want to clarify that I'm in Scotland, and want to know if that makes a difference to any rules or laws.

 

Any help appreciated.

[green_and_mean]

Do you think we are psychic, you have not even said what the ticket is for let alone who issued it, how are we supposed to guess if its valid or not?

[pauby]

Cheers for the nice response. I thought a parking ticket was making it clear. This is only the second parking ticket I've ever had so treat me gently. I've checked it and it's for:

 

"14. The vehicle was not displaying a current excise licence (Section 33(1) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994). Payment of the fixed penalty notice does not discharge liability in respect of excise duty."

 

£60 fixed penalty notice. Issued by Strathclyde Police.

 

Is that what you're looking for?

[esmerobbo]

So its not a parking ticket its an FPN, if the road has public access then they can issue you with an FPN. Unfortunately the next thing you will probably receive is a claim from DVLA for the back duty!

 

The only form of appeal is court for an FPN!

[pauby]

I'm sure the cover to it said Parking Ticket. Wouldn't swear to it but that's why I thought it was a parking ticket. As I said, second one Ive ever had.

 

No point in dragging it to court if there is no defence. I thought it was a private road (yes it has access from the public road) which is why it was left there while I tried to sell it. I also told DVLA it was off the road (SORN) and kept the insurance on it up until recently (it expired on 23rd August - this get's worse). As I said, its' been ignorance not maliciousness that's been the cause here. Although ignorance is no defence in law!

[green_and_mean]

Sorry didn't mean to be rude its just pointless asking unanswerable questions. The road has to be a public road for the offence to take place in England it means repairable at public expense ie adopted by the Council in Scotland the definition is here.... Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/54

[Raykay]

You need to establish the status of the road, if it is considered to be a public road, the vehicle needs to be licensed and the licence needs to be displayed.

In Scotland "Public Road” means a road which a roads authority have a duty to maintain.

[Abeon]

Not sure if it's the same in Scotland, but they will probably send you a "fixed penalty notice".

A notice is a contractual offer.

 

You can always refute it in "court", if it gets that far... Which it shouldn't.

Don't open it, just sign as no contract - return to sender.

[pauby]

Okay, can I just confirm as the advice is now on one track but was a little different earlier.

 

1. If it is a private road, the notice does not apply. If it is a public road - it does?

2. I need to establish if this is a private road and the definition (without reading the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 which green_and_mean supplied - I will read this but haven't as yet) is that the roads authority have a duty to maintain?

 

If 2 is correct, how would I establish this? Contact the Roads Authority? Don't know who that is but I assume the council would tell me?

 

I have another issue - this may just be semantics. The ticket is said that the car was on the main road - it's not. But Google Maps (and I assume other maps but I don't have a paper one to hand) doesn't have a name for the road the car was on. All that appears outside are flat numbers on a sign pointing up the road. Does that make any difference at all?

 

@green_and_mean - I appreciate your advice and everybody elses. I'm just new around here and new to tickets!

[pauby]

According to the Road Traffic Scotland Act 1984, Section 151 "definition"a:

 

“private road” means any road other than a public road;

 

“public road” means a road which a roads authority have a duty to maintain;

 

Which is pretty clear cut. If I can establish if the Roads Authority have a duty to maintain the road my car was on then I will know if it's a public or private road. All I then need to know is if the Police were allowed to issue the FPN on a private road? @esmerobbo said they can. Can I get some confirmation or back up for this or something to refute it? This

 

Anybody? Or anybody know how I would find out?

[Raykay]

You have an FPN for failing to display a licence, contrary to s.33, Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994:

 

"A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a)he uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle in respect of which vehicle excise duty is chargeable, and

(b)there is not fixed to and exhibited on the vehicle in the manner prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State a licence for, or in respect of, the vehicle which is for the time being in force."

 

Public Access has nothing to do with it, it is either a public road or not.

[pauby]

So all I have to do is determine if it's a public road or not and that is a done deal?

 

I will call the council tomorrow and see if I can get some pointers from them or where to go next. Car is going tomorrow (sold it as I said) so I will need to take a lot of photos to show where it is sitting. Took a few but I don't think you can take too many!

[green_and_mean]

Whilst not conclusive indications as to whether its a public road or not are usually, if its adopted it will have Council street lighting and repairs done by the local authority, if its private the adjacent properties contribute to its upkeep.

[pauby]

I've just phoned the council and they have confirmed that this is listed as a private road. I also have it from the council's own website that it's listed as a private road. The problem is that it states that it starts to the block NEXT to mine. My block is half on the main road and the private road. My car is parked half across from the block next to mine and half across mine In my mind it's parked on the private road (you can clearly see the tarmac line on the public road to show where the private one starts). In effect they couldn't put it as starting on my block as it's half on the main road.

 

Nothing is straightforward.

 

I'm going down to the Roads Department with a map to get a clearer confirmation.

 

I also spoke to DVLA this morning and they confirmed that if the car is parked on a private road then there is no need to display road tax.

Edited September 16, 2011 by pauby

[green_and_mean]

Its unlikely the named 'road' is half and half the road name would usually change when the status changes, what is the location on the FPN?

[pauby]

According to Google Maps the road, all of the off-shoots (as there are many for other blocks of flats) are called the same thing. Let's call it 'My Road'. However on teh Council's website it says that road opposite house 49 to 57, length 109m, is PRIVATE (their emphasis not mine). I am 47. Block 47 is half on the main 'public' road and half on the 'private' road. My car is parked on the half of the private road outside 47 and half of the private road outside 49. If you see what I mean. So in my mind, it's on the private road.

 

What is on the ticket is 'My Road' but nothing more specific than that. No house number or anything else.

 

Sorry to be so specific, just trying to make sure you know what I mean.

[green_and_mean]

According to Google Maps the road, all of the off-shoots (as there are many for other blocks of flats) are called the same thing. Let's call it 'My Road'. However on teh Council's website it says that road opposite house 49 to 57, length 109m, is PRIVATE (their emphasis not mine). I am 47. Block 47 is half on the main 'public' road and half on the 'private' road. My car is parked on the half of the private road outside 47 and half of the private road outside 49. If you see what I mean. So in my mind, it's on the private road.

 

What is on the ticket is 'My Road' but nothing more specific than that. No house number or anything else.

 

Sorry to be so specific, just trying to make sure you know what I mean.

 

I would contest the ticket on the grounds that it was parked in a private road its unlikely when it comes to the Court date that they will even remember where it was parked so the onus is on them to prove it was on the adopted section.

[pauby]

I've taken photos and I could get the neighbours to provide statements I suppose if need be.

 

After getting official confirmation from the council (today or Monday) I will then need to look into what I do next! Do I respond saying I dispute it, or ignore it and get a court date? I was going to speak to CAB with regards to it if you guys couldn't help with that part as I'm not engaging a solicitor for a £60 ticket!

[Old Snowy]

Good. Will or can the council provide a plan/map showing the relevant section of road the car was sitting on? that would be the most useful item you could get.

 

Armed with these items refer to the FPN you have and write to the address shown. Explain that you have no wish to incur additional expense and that whilst you could opt for the matter to be heard at court, in the light of the clear evidence that the relevant section of road is private (and therefore not a public road within the meaning of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994) it would be preferable that the FPN be withdrawn. Make sure you include copies of the plan and/or letter or list of roads from the council and photos you have taken.

 

I don't think there is any need to go to the CAB - though you may of course feel reassured by doing so.

 

Your letter should go something like:

 

Dear Sir

 

Re: Fixed Penalty Notice Number ZXZXZXZXZXZ

 

The above notice, dated XZXZXZXZX 2011, was attached to my vehicle a ZXZXZXZ registration number ABC 123D whilst it was parked in XXXXXXXXXX, Anytown, Anyshire. The notice alleged that the no current vehicle excise licence was displayed on the vehicle.

 

The Vehicle Excise & Registration Act 1994 requires that, subject to exemptions, any vehicle used or kept on a public road must display a valid excise licence. For the purposes of that Act a "public road" in Scotland is as set out in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984.

 

Please find the attached list/plan [whichever is relevant depending on what your council give you] from ZXZXZXZXZX Council which sets out which roads and sections of roads are "public" for the purposes of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984. Also attached are a number of photographs clearly showing where my vehicle was parked.

 

As can be seen by reference to the documents from ZXZXZXZX Council there are sections of ZXZXZXZ Road/Street/Close/Avenue etc, Anytown which are not public. By reference to the photographs I have provided it is clear that my vehicle was parked within ZXZXZXZX section (shown at paragraph XZ on page ZX). By extension the vehicle was not, therefore, being used or kept on a public road at the time of the offence alleged.

 

I have no wish to draw matters out and incur additional expense by electing for this matter to be heard at court. I therefore invite you to consider withdrawing the notice.

 

I look forward to your earliest response.

 

Yours faithfully

 

pauby

[pauby]

Just an update on this.

 

Received a short letter from Strathclyde Police this morning:

 

"I refer to your correspondence relative to the above and would advise you that there are circumstances present in this case which permit me to direct cancellation of the Fixed Penalty."

 

RESULT!

 

Many many thanks to everybody who responded to my post but particular to Old Snowy for the template. You guys saved me £60 and at a time when I can ill afford that!

[honeybee13]

Excellent news, I'm pleased for you and thank you for letting us know.

 

I suppose you wouldn't consider donating 10% of what you've saved so CAG can go on advising people like yourself?

 

My best, HB

[Old Snowy]

Just an update on this.

 

Received a short letter from Strathclyde Police this morning:

 

"I refer to your correspondence relative to the above and would advise you that there are circumstances present in this case which permit me to direct cancellation of the Fixed Penalty."

 

RESULT!

 

Many many thanks to everybody who responded to my post but particular to Old Snowy for the template. You guys saved me £60 and at a time when I can ill afford that!

Excellent news and thanks for taking the time to come back and let us know how things went.