Protection of Freedoms Bill (Private Parking Tickets)

[Crocdoc]

I note with interest the British Parking Association (BPA) is actively trying to introduce a Keeper Liability clause into Protection of Freedoms Bill. I understand that consideration will only be given to the proposal if the BPA has an Independent Appeal Service in place. Having read into this issue in some detail, I find it remarkable that this organisation are now laying down conditions regarding setting up an independent body, one of which is public money.

So let’s assume that our much respected parliamentarians fall for this attempt to justify the existence of this questionable industry, it is surely reasonable that any publicly funded appeals service will need to take into account all the other debates surrounding the legalities of private companies imposing fines or penalties.

Without giving information that could possibly give away my identity, I have arranged to speak to my local MP about this proposal and would welcome any comments anyone may wish to add..

[Al27]

The bill doesn't explain anywhere near adequately what the keeper would be liable for, let alone how liability would arise.

 

The BPA want to be the independent body who oversees appeals, which looks unlikely considering the government won't fund it, and considering the BPA aren't neutral or independent in the slightest.

[Jamberson]

Why are you so outraged that public money is being spent so private companies can make money? It happens all the time. Who do you think pays for the railways? Who paid for the gas and electricity networks? Who pays for the military adventures in oil-rich parts of the world? Who built the cash-cow universities? There are a lot of faceless peole making a lot of money out of things which the taxpayer forks out for. Just don't expect your MP to mention it - they never do...

[green_and_mean]

It just goes to show what a stupid idea banning clamping was in the first place, we already had a body to licence and oversea the industry (SIA) why wasn't it used effectively? Instead of making a legal cap on clamping fees in line with Council fees and enforcing the licence system better they decided to go with what they percieved was a vote winner and jumped in feet first without thinking through the consequences.

[DBC]

The complete ban of private clamping in Scotland seems to work. So why not in the rest of the UK?

[green_and_mean]

The complete ban of private clamping in Scotland seems to work. So why not in the rest of the UK?

 

Maybe people are more considerate in Scotland.

[lamma]

but the Scottish clampers weren't ? thin G&M, very thin

[green_and_mean]

I fail to see how the 'it works in Scotland' argument is persuasive how do we know it works? Obviously the ban works in respect that no one gets clamped but does it also mean no one parks on private land against the wishes of the land owner?

[tiredTraveller]

how does clamping work anyway? If 'keeping parking spaces available to those who are entitled to use them' is the objective then surely rooting an offending vehicle to the spot, rendering it unable to move is a bit counter-intuitive?

[green_and_mean]

how does clamping work anyway? If 'keeping parking spaces available to those who are entitled to use them' is the objective then surely rooting an offending vehicle to the spot, rendering it unable to move is a bit counter-intuitive?

 

It works as a deterent in the same way parking tickets do its not exactly rocket science is it? If the car is parked with impunity you are not going to be able to park there anyway at least clamping may deter future transgressions and provides some financial compensation for the inconvenience. You seem to forget the towing is also included in the ban anyway.

[Al27]

The issues surrounding clamping seem to be the companies that act unscrupulously. They've had their chance to act reasonably, but the SIA is a complete failure.

 

I've no problems with a ticketing system if it was to operate in exactly the same way as council PCN's ie. standard signs and conditions, 'private' off street parking orders, a central funding pool as we see with landlord deposits and an appeals system run by PATAS/TPT (not the BPA).

[green_and_mean]

The issues surrounding clamping seem to be the companies that act unscrupulously. They've had their chance to act reasonably, but the SIA is a complete failure.

 

 

It seems rather odd to ban an industry because the body set up by the govt. didn't work properly. Surely the logical solution would be to have looked into the SIAs faults not tar every car parking company with the same brush. There are plumbers that are frequently shown on Watchdog charging £400 to change a tap washer but I don't see any calls to ban plumbers?

[SURFBOY]

Yes but plumbers are needed, they are trained, skilled workmen. Clamping companies are not needed and are not a skilled workforce.

[green_and_mean]

Yes but plumbers are needed, they are trained, skilled workmen. Clamping companies are not needed and are not a skilled workforce.

 

Great so we can ban all jobs that you don't think are a skill??

[SURFBOY]

Eh? i was replying to your statement about banning all plumbers!

Are you in an argumentative mood or something?

[Al27]

It seems rather odd to ban an industry because the body set up by the govt. didn't work properly. Surely the logical solution would be to have looked into the SIAs faults not tar every car parking company with the same brush. There are plumbers that are frequently shown on Watchdog charging £400 to change a tap washer but I don't see any calls to ban plumbers?

 

Is it in the public interest to allow clamping companies at all? Rogue plumbers might invoice you horrendous amounts but they don't change the locks on your house and frogmarch you to the nearest cash machine.

[green_and_mean]

Eh? i was replying to your statement about banning all plumbers!

Are you in an argumentative mood or something?

 

Yes probably! lol It was meant as an example there are rogues in all businesses there are builders that take £20,000 and disapear leaving a house like a demolition site, there are financial advisors that con people out of their savings, there are garages that return cars in a dangerous condition. Clamping and vehicle removals when done in a lawful and resonable manner provides a usual service to some land owners. To use an extreme example to demonstrate a point after the ban what would happen if some feckless driver visiting his granny in hospital decides to park his car in an access road blocking ambulance access to A&E, it will be illegal to tow it away and their will be no tow trucks anyway?

[Al27]

I doubt a hospital would have a tow truck just waiting there and the ambulance drivers would sit in the ambulance waiting for it to be cleared.

 

And maybe there aren't actually that many feckless drivers in the grand scheme of things?

[green_and_mean]

And maybe there aren't actually that many feckless drivers in the grand scheme of things?

 

You'd be surprised!

[Tricksy]

Yes probably! lol It was meant as an example there are rogues in all businesses there are builders that take £20,000 and disapear leaving a house like a demolition site, there are financial advisors that con people out of their savings, there are garages that return cars in a dangerous condition. Clamping and vehicle removals when done in a lawful and resonable manner provides a usual service to some land owners. To use an extreme example to demonstrate a point after the ban what would happen if some feckless driver visiting his granny in hospital decides to park his car in an access road blocking ambulance access to A&E, it will be illegal to tow it away and their will be no tow trucks anyway?

 

The Bill only bans the clamping or removal of vehicles where the intention is to prevent the owner from using the vehicle. It makes allowance for vehicles to be moved a short distance where they are in a dangerous or obstructive location. It's all in the discussion and amendments to the bill.

 

In any case, the police's ability to tow / move vehicles will not be affected - they would be able to move the dangerous car in your example.

[green_and_mean]

In any case, the police's ability to tow / move vehicles will not be affected - they would be able to move the dangerous car in your example.

 

Since when have Police had the power to move vehicles on private land?

[Tricksy]

Since when have Police had the power to move vehicles on private land?

 

Blocking entry to an A&E department? Of course they have that power!

[green_and_mean]

Blocking entry to an A&E department? Of course they have that power!

 

Afraid not if its on NHS property

[Tricksy]

Afraid not if its on NHS property

 

We were both right. The police can't tow on private land at the moment, but they will be able to when the bill is passed. Sorry, I read all this a few months ago so had to re-read things to get it straight. The police will have their powers extended to cover private land, so that land owners can still have vehicles removed when necessary. However, in reality the police will probably only use these powers in extreme circumstances (such as the example you gave of a car blocking A&E).

 

Home office fact sheet on the matter: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/legislation/freedom-bill/fact-sheet-part3?view=Binary

 

On page three it says:

 

"Extension of police power to remove vehicles to include private land

The Bill will extend the power to make regulations which enable the police and

others to remove vehicles which are illegally, obstructively or dangerously

parked on public land. In future, it will be possible for such regulation also to

cover private land."

[green_and_mean]

We were both right. The police can't tow on private land at the moment, but they will be able to when the bill is passed. Sorry, I read all this a few months ago so had to re-read things to get it straight. The police will have their powers extended to cover private land, so that land owners can still have vehicles removed when necessary. However, in reality the police will probably only use these powers in extreme circumstances (such as the example you gave of a car blocking A&E).

 

Home office fact sheet on the matter: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/legislation/freedom-bill/fact-sheet-part3?view=Binary

 

On page three it says:

 

"Extension of police power to remove vehicles to include private land

The Bill will extend the power to make regulations which enable the police and

others to remove vehicles which are illegally, obstructively or dangerously

parked on public land. In future, it will be possible for such regulation also to

cover private land."

 

Interesting how is that going to work? I wonder what the definition will be and how keen the Police will be to bother towing a vehicle from private property?....... 'Hello is that the Police someone is in my car park without paying can you tow it away?'