CRA Reports - HFO & Welcome Finance

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Is the claim being made by HFO/Turnbull Rutherford?

[ryjayel]

Hello

 

Thanks for the replies, nice to know there are other voices out there! The claim is by Welcome Finance, submitted by Hegarty LLP. IND have sent threat letters.

 

The date of the summons is 7th August, so 5 days is 12th August, 28 days from there is this Sunday 9th September. I have done AoS with intention to defend all of it.

 

My defence is as follows thus far:

 

 

• The PPI of £496.65 was a fait accompli - He was given no option by the broker, it was mandatory if he wanted the loan.
  
• The offer of settlement was rejected entirely.
  
• The SAR request was not responded to properly the first time, I had to write again to get a proper copy of the agreement and then again to chase missing items which was duly ignored.
  
• No default notice was ever received and the one in the SAR is pretty standard.
  
• The APR (variable) was 65.57%, then there is a second box that says 'rate of interest per annum' and that is 60.10%. But the statement we subsequently received after the SAR gave a current address says 48%. I'm not up with calculating APRs and interest but so far as I can see its all a little 'made up on the spot' and I'd like to investigate further.
  
• There are £90 worth of charges for telephone calls (£10 a time)
  
• There is £40 for unpaid DD's (£20 a time)
  
• We have offered a very 'generous' settlement of the £3854 (all in one go if needs be) they are claiming before court interest and costs, that has been point blank turned down.
  

The negatives are that the credit agreement appears sound (except the iffy APR), I have a raft of paperwork from the SAR.

Should I scan and upload the credit agreement, the default notice and the statement for everyone to see?

Thanks

 

Ryjayel

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Can you post up or type the particulars of the claim.

[ryjayel]

the claimant claims for sums due under a/various credit agreement/s related only to money regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant.

 

the agreement/s was/were terminated upon the defendant failure to comply with the terms of the agreement/s.

 

the claimant complied with section III and IV and annex b of the pd pre action conduct.

 

and the claimant claims:

personal loan account number xxxxxx balance of 3854.00 as of 19/2/09 interest under s69 of the county court act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 19/2/09 to 7/8/12 of 1068.56 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.84 and costs.

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I have sent you a PM

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Do you still have the NoA from HFO Services?

[DonkeyB]

It's not HFO!

[coledog]

No - it is Welcome - and they are just as dodgy, IMHO

[ryjayel]

Yes sorry, the original thread was about two balances, the HFO one has since died and the Welcome Finance claim has progressed to this stage.

 

What I need to do is put together a defence for MCOL and sharpish as I only have until Sunday to do it. Can anyone help point me in the right direction based on my defence points above?

 

Much appreciated.

 

Ryjayel

[coledog]

Need some Welcome experts to look at this - I have asked DOH to look in!

[dadofholly]

Can i just ask - have you made A formal CCA request for this agreement, and if so what did they send? (Upload docs if you can)

Can you also upload the Default Notice.

 

Experience of Welcome tells me two things - the DN will not be compliant and probably neither will the CCA request. Both are statutory bars to enforcement and will form the basis of your defence if i am right.

[DonkeyB]

Still in default of a valid CCA request? Read up on Carey v HSBC.

[DonkeyB]

Snap!

[dadofholly]

In Post number 7 you have uploaded a copy of the agreement - was this sent to you in response to a CCA request, or is this a copy you had?

[DonkeyB]

Very dodgy looking tick for the acceptance of PPI...

[ryjayel]

hiya all and thanks for weighing in!

 

yes the cca in post 7 was send after my SAR. Although I had to follow up with a letter demanding a full one without an obscured area. I will post the DN this afternoon.

 

He was never given a choice over the ppi! he couldn't have the loan unless he took the insurance.

 

thanks for the point to carey vs hsbc. I will read up on that today!

 

can anyone point me to any defence construction posts?

[dadofholly]

What exactley did they send you in response to your CCA request? Did they send you any terms and conditions? Can you post up everyhting they sent in response so we can see if they have complied or not.

 

Do you have a copy of the letter you sent to them making your request?

[DonkeyB]

Looks like an actual CCA request wasn’t sent – just an SAR.

[ryjayel]

Hi Everyone

 

On 08/09/11 I sent them a CCA request

On 10/09/11 I sent them a SAR - mainly because I wasnt sure the CCA would help much as we were blind as to the nature of the debt.

 

They replied to the CCA with an agreement with a band through the middle of it saying "CPC View Evaluation", suggesting they hadn't bought the software they were using! It came with a copy of T&C's.

 

The SAR then arrived with the following:

 

1. Default Notice and accompanying letter (never received in the first place!)
   
2. Copies of ID taken at the time of the loan
   
3. DD Mandate and other bits of gumff
   
4. Credit Agreement and T&Cs (this time without that band through the middle)
   
5. Five pages of contact notes on his account
   

I then wrote back to them on 6th October stating that they had omitted from the SAR:

 

• Notice of assignment if any (they maintain the debt I think but have instructed IND to do all the talking)
  
• Any and all PPI docs - all of which were noticeably absent
  
• Collection charges breakdown etc etc
  
• Fees levied by others
  
• DPA fair use notice
  
• List of 3rd party agencies data disclosed to
  
• All statements throughout the period
  
• Termination notice
  

We then received a loan statement shortly after, from Mack Hall

 

Then we received a letter from Welcome stating they gave me all they have, refused to give me commission and broker details and thats that!

 

Then another loan statement in April of this year and several chasing letter from Mack Hall etc.

 

I believe the NoA was February of this year, threatening court action via their litigation agents IND. Should it have a particular layout?

 

Then a letter from Welcome introducing the FSCS and asking if I wanted to pursue a PPI claim via them (because of Welcomes financial problems)

 

I sent another letter in the June stating they had failed to comply with a legal request (SAR) and they never bothered to reply.

 

Finally - the N1 court claim arrived.

 

Incidentally, that 'tick' in the PPI box on the agreement, is a computer generated one (the one that looks like the division sign). He wasn't even told about the PPI, they never discussed options with him!

 

I'm going to have to speak with Welcome about an extension to submit my defence, its too much to do before the week is out.

 

Ryjayel

[ryjayel]

Oh and yes all letters I have, including recorded delivery receipts for most - some might have slipped into my business accounts so I will have to look through.

[DonkeyB]

If you sent a CCA request, you’re laughing. Bingo.

[ryjayel]

Hiya DonkeyB

 

Sorry, exactly how is it 'bingo'... I'm a idiot...

 

Ryjayel

[dadofholly]

From what you are saying it appears they have not fully complied with your CCA request.

 

To comply they need to send you a legible copy of the agreement

A legible copy of the terms and conditions ( can you upload the T&C's they sent you? - Welcome do not keep copies of the back of the agreements - I have a statement from their head of compliance saying as much - so we need to see if they are the correct ones)

They also need to send you a full statement of account showing all charges and payments made.

 

Here is a copy of what they need to send to comply.

 

Can you also upload the Default Notice - if it does not comply then they cannot enforce the debt.

S.78 request requirements.pdf

[ryjayel]

I sent a CCA request dated 05.09.11, arrived 09.09.11 at 8:23am

 

In response, they sent back, arriving on the 19th the attached, which is basically a copy of the agreement and a copy of some T&Cs which have a wide obscure bar through the middle of them. See the attached.

 

I was going to write back but a few days later the SAR arrived, with the same documents but this time no such bar.

 

The SAR letter stated that a statement of account would arrive separately, which it did at the end of the month, but note that this was not in response to my CCA.

 

As I said before I then wrote back and said 'hang on, stuffs missing from the SAR request' to which they replied they had given me everything they have.CCA response 2a.pdf

Welcome Default a.pdf

Welcome Default Letter a.pdf

CCA response 1a.pdf

[dadofholly]

If they send you everything they have then they have complied with your SAR - the problem is that Welcome used to lose a lot of paperwork, (convenient ?) They have been fined £150,000 for their lapse practices.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18723038

 

The Default Notice is not compliant - it gives you 14 days - but it must give you an actuall date to remedy by. That means that the Court cannot enforce the debt until they send you a compliant DN. That is a total defence in Court (see Brandon v Amex).

 

Also, as it stands, that CCA response is not compliant - how can you read the terms and conditions with that big notice obscuring the middle of it. if they did not send you a statement as part of their CCA response then it fails for that reason also.

 

I can't see a right to cancel either the agreement or the PPI.