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    • well ...... 1st you need to go back to post 1 and carefully read ALL this thread from the start again and pay attention to the advice and the undertones it explains about 'debt'.   2nd ...the truth is you owe no-one ANYTHING, the OC wrote off and sold the debt, and got most of it back against tax and business insurance schemes ...throw the morality card out the window...the OC did by selling the debt on for <10p=£1. and the DCa want the full balance ...id so many fools stopped paying powerless DCA's tomorrow, the whole industry would collapse overnight.   3rd the only reason this is still around your neck is because you failed to follow given advice...had you ..it would now be statute barred.      ^^^ very important research the M+S credit card debacle using our enhanced google searchbox on this page   as for the PAPLOC reply,   D.. desipte a previous CCA requests, the claimant has yet to supply any/all of the required paperwork.   i: delete [CC is attached to this reply form]"   
    • Hi again   Yes, it's been a lovely day weather wise.   Guess you've better things to do with weather like today than help with this problem, so thanks very much for your input, it's very much appreciated.   Late this afternoon I did receive a reply from the tenants, and they are asking me to go 50/50 with getting the garden sorted, not only that, as they have moved away they are expecting me to get the quotes.   Regarding you view on this issue, its so easy not to see the whole picture and my thoughts that the staining damp may be of their own doing didn't occur to me as I was so locked into the historical leak. Taking a closer look at the room in question today, I'm convinced that they are trying it on with the stained mattress- they did mail through a picture and then a receipt for supposedly the mattress. My wife and I then took both the pic and receipt to the bedding store where purchase was made to ask if the two married up, the picture does not show any emblems/manufactures logo or such to prove that this is the case, so we are none the wiser- our thoughts being that the stained mattress is from elsewhere.   A few days back I spoke to our letting agent regarding all of this, as was quite correctly mentioned there are two parts to this equation, namely the mattress and then the property.   Our agents mentioned to me that as an inventory was not carried out initially with the let, (hindsight) the pictures that were used to advertise the property could not be used as evidence to present to the TDS to be compared to the pictures now as there is no proof that the advertising pictures were in fact how the property was when the let started. I mentioned that all digital pictures have a means of finding when that pic was taken- Geo tag/Metadata- agent was quite surprised by this. The agents thoughts then went for a hide in a vacuum-   This is going off at a tangent here-many moons ago my wife studied computer science at a local University, one of her classmates who she is still in touch with is now a practising Solicitor. My wife suggested that maybe I give her a call, a bit rude I guess, but I did  phone and with the pleasantries out the way  I asked for her opinion of the best way to get this sorted. Her remit isn't landlord type stuff, however she will speak to a colleague on Monday and come back to me.   The property is due to be relet on the 21st, we will ensure that the new tenants move in to a home that is immaculate and welcoming, trouble is its getting a tadge close to get the garden issues sorted in time.   I know that all this will get closure in the end, but at the moment I've had more fun with a toothpick-   Again, many thanks.
    • The collection is currently stored at curator James Blower's home, but he has now found a space situated in an old bank premises where he hopes to exhibit them from this autumn or early next year. View the full article
    • In a letter sent to customers in the past few days, the bank has said that 'following a review', rates on two mainstream instant access accounts will be slashed to 0.05 per cent from August 12. View the full article
    • Thank you dx. Understood not to send for another CCA. I've had a read through note #2, my first time seeing anything like this. Thank you for bearing with my questions! When ticking box D, "I dispute this debt because"..recommended reason as advised from your thread, what reason should I use? (The truth is I do owe some money from way back, it was originally 5K, interest saw it go up to 11K (so unfair), and I paid 2K get it down to £9k (as currently owed)) in my eyes, I only owe £3K.  Id rather not pay anything as my ex-wife (who wasn't in her name) spent it! When ticking box I, "I have requested by way of a cca request the signed agreement from the debt purchaser [CC is attached to this reply form]" who is this, would this be Arrow? When I've filled in the PAP reply form, i'll send it off first thing Monday morning.  What happens then, I just wait, what happens if it goes past 12 days with the CCA, or 30 days with these documents? Many thanks  
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Southwest Trains penalty fare appeal


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I wonder if anyone has had the same situation happen to me - I travelled from Clapham Junction, on a Southwest train to Waterloo, transferred to the underground to get to Leceister Sq. Less than an hour later I did the reverse journey back to Clapham Junction. At each stage I had been swiping my oystercard which is on pay-as-you-go and the barriers had opened. I do not always check the balance each time I swipe my card and occasionally it'll beep in which case I turn around go to a topup machine and put money on my card before exiting. In this particular case I was in a hurry to catch the next train so didn't look down as I swiped it, just went through the barriers when they opened. This was a journey midday on a Thursday, there was not a rush of people trying to get on the train to CJ at Waterloo, and when I was alone when I entered the barriers.

 

However! When I tried to exit at Clapham Junction it beeped so say there was no money on it. I approached a guard to say 'what do I do? there's no where to put money on'. He takes my card, swipes it on his machine, asks me (none too politely) where I came from. When I say Waterloo he starts his rant, 'no you didn't, it's impossible' yada yada. Me saying that 'it is possible, I just came from there where I swiped my Oystercard, and the barriers opened' fell on deaf ears. He accused me of following somebody else through the barriers (there was no one around) or having come from elsewhere as his machine didn't show a Waterloo journey that day at all. He got his colleague involved to back him up who also came full of hostile behaviour saying I had not been at Waterloo since the Sat before. Extremely odd as I had just come from there! But furthermore I had done the exact same trip the night before, none of which shows up on their machine.

 

Apparently my card didn't just show a negative balance it was -£2.40...meaning it had a zero balance when I got on at Waterloo. This stepped up their hostility a notch and I was told I'd have to pay a penalty fare. The balance being that negative should be, as the collector said, impossible but obviously there is some sort of glitch when travelling between National Rail and underground at Waterloo and again when travelling the return journey within such a short period of time. None of my recent journeys showed on their machine so I only uncovered the oddity when I got the paper receipt off my card a few days later.

 

I was not trying to fare dodge and evade paying. If I had known there was no credit on my card at Waterloo, I would have topped it up there and then, but the card allowed me to enter. Long story slightly shorter, the collector got his colleague to frog march me down to the ATM (as their debit card machine wasn't working) so I could get £20 out as they required me to pay before exiting the station. I was not allowed to take the penalty fare notice without paying unless I had proof of name/address on me. I had ID, but don't routinely carry proof of address when I pop out to do an errand. I was absolutely shaken by the experience of being shouted at and treated like I was trying to evade paying when I had done nothing but do as they asked. This is all occuring in front of a busy station of people. It was like they were bored and waiting for a fight to spice up their day! Absolutely no customer relations skills whatsoever.

 

I have appealed the penalty fare and wondered how long the process normally takes until you hear back? From the reading I have done since I am assuming mine will be rejected as I did not read all the legal jargon and list explicity where the penalty fare process had not been followed. From what I have read now I'm not sure what I would have put anyway! I would have topped up at Waterloo but did not realise as the machine allow me to continue my journey when it shouldn't have?! As far as I was aware I was travelling on a valid card?

 

The Oyster card receipt which shows my journey from CJ - Waterloo - Leceister Sq and reverse less than an hour later. It shows a zero balance at Waterloo, but the gates still opened. Because I was travelling within such a short period of time, has it taken it all to be one journey, and charged differently? I do not see how it should be possible for my card to get to -£2.40 when the fare from Waterloo to CJ is £1.90.

 

Unfortunately I didn't have the receipt at the time I did my online appeal - is there any way I can forward it on to IRCAS as evidence?

 

Are the station collectors always this rough and hostile? I understand that it's 'guilty until proven innocent' in the case of penalty fares but that you don't look any different from a fare dodger but I (a mild mid 20s female) was left absolutely shaken and upset by the whole thing. I thought they would have received customer relations training in how to deal with people and had the nouse to at least realise after dealing with me for a few minutes that I wasn't trying to dodge the penalty fare and just give me it to me without all the extra upsetting hostile behaviour.

 

Many thanks for any advice/comments.

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Firstly, Penalty Fares are not meant for fare evaders, they are a deterrant against fare evasion. From what you've said about the staff accusing you of tailgating through the barriers at Waterloo, I'm surprised they didn't report you to their Prosecutions Department. I think it's the staff being lazy more than anything, but hey ho! If you've appealed the Penalty Fare within 21-days it shouldn't take long to hear back from IRCAS (couple of weeks or so?). The very fact that you have before got to a barrier and realised there's been no credit on the card, turned around and topped up, suggests that you don't really know how the system works. If you have been doing this before exiting after having finished your rail journey, I'm surprised you haven't come a cropper before now, as this definitely looks like fare evasion (what would have happened if the barriers were open?).

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My mistake - I re-read what I wrote and have written 'exiting' where I meant 'entering'! No I'm not in the practice of starting a journey and only paying after the fact. I was meaning the once or twice there has been 10 or 20p short of the fare when it comes to exit. The barriers open, and the fare taken off but it'll be in negative. Not good practice I know, but usually I travel on the bus where I find it impossible to read the balance so am out of the habit of always looking at it. Then the card can't be used again until you put money on it.

 

If the card didn't have enough after exiting the Waterloo underground, and was in negative, I should not have been able to use it until I had topped up. That's fine, if it had of beeped at Waterloo I would have topped up before getting on a train. But the barriers opened as I rushed onto a train and I didn't think at all that I wasn't travelling on a valid card.

 

Why is there this oddity when travelling between National Rail/Underground that lets the barriers open on a zero balance?

 

Also, why was the last journey that their card reader able to pick up from my card, one I made almost a week earlier when I had used my card every day since then including putting money on it?

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My mistake - I re-read what I wrote and have written 'exiting' where I meant 'entering'! No I'm not in the practice of starting a journey and only paying after the fact. I was meaning the once or twice there has been 10 or 20p short of the fare when it comes to exit. The barriers open, and the fare taken off but it'll be in negative. Not good practice I know, but usually I travel on the bus where I find it impossible to read the balance so am out of the habit of always looking at it. Then the card can't be used again until you put money on it.

 

If the card didn't have enough after exiting the Waterloo underground, and was in negative, I should not have been able to use it until I had topped up. That's fine, if it had of beeped at Waterloo I would have topped up before getting on a train. But the barriers opened as I rushed onto a train and I didn't think at all that I wasn't travelling on a valid card.

 

Why is there this oddity when travelling between National Rail/Underground that lets the barriers open on a zero balance?

 

Also, why was the last journey that their card reader able to pick up from my card, one I made almost a week earlier when I had used my card every day since then including putting money on it?

Although it would be a rarity to pursue given that you hadn't even entered the station with no credit, it's worth bearing in mind that intending not to pay for your rail journey is also an offence. Having said that, not sure if they bring that one home in court given that you were unable to even enter the station through the barriers, lol.

 

I've never known there to be an issue with Oyster Cards opening ticket barriers when there's not sufficient credit on them. The staff have readers that say where the journey way started etc. I wasn't there so I don't know all sides to this one, but I generally don't trust modern technology (the readers or Oyster themselves) anyway, as there's generally a lot that can potentially go wrong!

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If you have already appealed I hope you put all these points in the appeal and not just after the event to us! Yes the barriers at Waterloo wouldn't open unless you had over the minimum fare (£1.80 I think); and yes it's possible that the RPI's reader (OMOV) was knackered!

 

Mind you I hope you didn't tell them that you mostly travel by buses and, in the same breath, then say you've done the journey every day... a slight anomaly?

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Yes I included the majority of these points - unfortunately other than the most important being a copy of the receipt which I know have. I did include the Oystercard number, are they able to trace information from that?

It shows

 

13:11 CJ - Waterloo NR £0.00 charged

13.20 CJ - Leic Square £0.00 charged

-- I exited Leicester Square, did my errand and went back to Waterloo to go home --

13.51 CJ - Waterloo LU £0.00 charged (odd that it has continued this from my inbound journey even though I'm now going home on a separate journey)

13.53 Uncompleted Pre Pay Entry Waterloo NR £1.50

14.07 Rejected Exit Clapham Junction £0.00

 

Am I right in assuming when you swipe your card at the start of a journey it registers that there's credit, then does not take off the cost of the journey until you exit. In my case it looks like it has tacked my return journey onto my inbound one since it was without such a short time frame. Which in a bizarre set of circumstances led to the barriers opening for me when they shouldn't.

 

I travel weekdays to work via the bus, I often travel via Waterloo from CJ on the weekend or evenings. So yes, my card had been used everyday since the last journey they were telling me I had taken to Waterloo, but not every journey was to/from Waterloo other than one the night before.

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The Oyster, when validated, acts like any other ticket: i.e, has to be paid for in advance. PAYG takes the maximum fare when you 'touch-in' and then adjusts your balance when you 'touch-out'. That's why it needs the minimum fare loaded on already. If the journey you make is then over that minimum fare, the balance goes into a negative and has to be 'topped-up' before next entering the system.

 

PS: yes now you have a reference nmber, send in a copy of the receipt.

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This is my full days worth of travel.

13:11 CJ - Waterloo NR £0.00 charged

13.20 CJ - Leic Square £0.00 charged

13.51 CJ - Waterloo LU £0.00 charged (odd that it has continued this from my inbound journey even though I'm now going home on a separate journey)

13.53 Uncompleted Pre Pay Entry Waterloo NR £1.50

14.07 Rejected Exit Clapham Junction £0.00

 

I have scanned the receipt - is there an email address I'm able to send it to or postal address only?

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  • 2 weeks later...
This is my full days worth of travel.

13:11 CJ - Waterloo NR £0.00 charged

13.20 CJ - Leic Square £0.00 charged

13.51 CJ - Waterloo LU £0.00 charged (odd that it has continued this from my inbound journey even though I'm now going home on a separate journey)

13.53 Uncompleted Pre Pay Entry Waterloo NR £1.50

14.07 Rejected Exit Clapham Junction £0.00

 

I have scanned the receipt - is there an email address I'm able to send it to or postal address only?

 

Send it via recorded mail as these agencies have a tendancy to forget or misplace emails!

Recorded / registered mail proves receipt. An email proves nothing.

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An email proves nothing.

 

You should, in that case, instruct Gareth Pierce to fight for the various Al-Q'eda people who are doing 10 years for conspiracy on account of their emails being logged by ISP's and then summoned as evidence. In their cases, an email proved plenty. How's that armchair, BTW?

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