DVLA Failure to notify Advice required.

[paul kennedy]

Dear all, As some of you will know I was accused of failing to notify the sale of an old car that I had. Because I most certainly had sent the V5c I argued my case and to my disbeleif lost in the magistrates courts. Thanks to help from users of this forum I have learnt that this decision was deeply flawed and I appealed to the Crown court. My trial is on Friday.Alun Williams of Enforcement support at Swansea has now contacted me and I quote,

 

I would advise that my enquires have revaled that it would be appropriate for the secretary of state to concede the appeal and offer no evidence at the crown c ourt hearing, on the understanding that there is no application for costs. I should be obliged if you would confirm that you are agreeable to this course of action by telephoning me on the above number.

I have written to the court requesting that his Honour the Judge consider disposing of the appeal and that neither party be formally represented.

 

Rather a sudden change of tact after 6 months of intransigence ! What about all the other people who not quite as stubborn as myself and without the support of this fine forum folded at the earlier stages. I want the DVLA to consider their behavior and accepting this deal does nothing to encourage them to do that.

On the other hand a crown court trail is expensive and a waste of public money. What should I do please. Is there any value to anybody else of proceding to force the trial and gaining a crown court judgement. Opinions would be appreciateted but rather urgently because trial date is this Friday

Thanks to all Regards Paul

Edited September 7, 2011 by paul kennedy

[paul kennedy]

Just to add that I one hundred percent did send off the V5c and the DVLA prosecutor accepted this before the magistrates hearing. My massive crime in their eyes was not responding to not receiving an acknowlegement letter that I didnt realise they sent because it is in small print as a request and I hadnt noticed it. It is not a legal requirement anyway and they know that. The whole thing was a DVLA con trick on the magistrates and they keep doing it. The DVLA prosecutor was willing to see me gain a CRIMINAL record because failure to notify is a criminal offence for a gain to them of £35. I am a teacher and a clear enhanced CRB check is therefore essential to my job . Thank you DVLA I wont be forgetting it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[huggys boss]

I was surprised yesterday when I received an acknowledgement letter for a car I sold 2 weeks ago. I had never heard of them sending confirmation letters!

[Tony P]

Paul

I too am driven by principles and what is right under Law. If me, I would take the appeal to the Crown Court to rule upon.

 

POSTGGJ said on another thread, The Crown Court decisions become legal precedents (Magistrates Courts' decisions do not) and that would really put an end to all this unprincipled, money grabbing bullying that covers up their own administrative inefficiency.

 

This being so, little wonder the DVLA will do anything to prevent the Crown Court making a ruling. I am bloody sure they, as Agents for the Secretary of State will be very, very happy to "concede the appeal and offer no evidence at the crown c ourt hearing, on the understanding that there is no application for costs" as they told or wrote to you.

 

Conceding the Appeal prevents the Crown Court making a ruling that would destroy this game by DVLA. The no application for costs (against you - note their continued bullying, with threatening inuendo!) appears to be a sop to get you to go along with them so they can continue their frauds against many other innocents falling foul of the DVLA's inability to properly deal with incoming paperwork.

Alternatively, if they refered to you not making an application for costs against them it again prevents the Court considering the matter to make such an award.

 

 

I know higher Courts' costs are expensive but in my only encounter with them 20 years ago in the Court of Appeal over a commercial matter, we, the successful Apellants, were awarded costs which from memory covered most of our very considerable costs.

 

I, and probably many others here, would be willing to chip in something to ameliorate any costs you cannot recover.

 

I hope you 'fight the good fight', ignore their tactics and keep us informed.

[Gick]

Dear Paul,

 

I agree with Tony P in post #3, including the suggestion of assisting with any unclaimable costs incurred.

 

Stay strong.

[paul kennedy]

Thank you Tony P and Gick and Raykay

 

Today has got a lot better than I expected!

 

My father sought some legal advice and was strongly of the mind that I should accept the offer from the DVLA because it might be considered that I was wasting public money in pursuing the DVLA further though the Crown Court when they had already conceded. I did not agree because I wanted a ruling that would help others in my situation . I am so confident of a victory because I am genuinely innocent and with the help of this forum have become well conversant with the finer points of relevant legislation.

 

I didn't however want to upset my father so I decided that if the DVLA gave me a decent apology then I would withdraw. I rang the DVLA in Swansea and they were very nice to me . They listened to my story again and said they were to offer no evidence against me. They said I was not required at the court on Friday and that only the DVLA were required to attend. I thought this was very strange!They suggested I ring the court to make sure.

 

I rang the court and they said that in fact they would like me there. They said that the DVLA had tried to withdraw the case against me and offer no evidence but that His Honour the Judge refused and has insisted that they appear because he wishes to know why the DVLA suddenly have no evidence to offer against me. I have been asked to bring along my case details but assured that there will be no evidence offered against me.

 

I can only assume that His Honour the Judge does not take kindly to his court and the legal system being used as an instrument to bully and extort . Its taken me a long time to get this far thousands less stubborn than myself are likely to have coughed up rather than face the Crown Court and DVLA know that.

 

Big mistake DVLA ! Judges are not stupid and this one has seen through your little game. If anybody is interested the case is listed for 10.00am on friday 9 sept Chelmsford Crown Court and all are welcome. More the merrier. I will post the confirmed time on Thursday when I get it.

Paul Kennedy v DVLA

In some ways I would like them to offer evidence against me because I am innocent and have spent many hours making sure I am well prepared. What upsets me more than anything is the Prosecutor in Chelmsford, David Baker's completely inconsiderate attitude towards me. I communicated with him honestly and in detail at every stage. I phoned and wrote several times and visited his offices in person. He refused to listen to me properly or consider the points I put to him in writing. I clearly did not deserve a criminal record yet he was prepared to chance his luck at getting me to pay the fine with increasing threats of court action. I am a teacher and an enhanced CRB check is essential for my job yet he was not the slightest bit bothered by this. Well David Baker I told you this would end up being extremely embarrassing for you because I would not quit till I was rightfully cleared. See you Friday !

[paul kennedy]

Dear all In Crown Court today. Judge was very clever and basically delivered a prolonged bollocking to DVLA. No evidence was offered against me but I was given a very good opportunity to express all my views to the court. I did so and the Judge agreed with me that the DVLA should be and were embarrassed.

 

Rather regret really that they did not try to convict me because I feel so confident of my case.

 

Interpretation act. Delivered in due course unless proven otherwise. Dvla cannot prove other wise because questioning under the freedom of information act has already established that they do lose mail. acknowledgement letter is a request not a legal requirement. Case Won.

Thoroughly enjoyed my day in court. Dvla manager present was a decent bloke so where was he earlier in proceedings. Dvla barrister was a nice lady but not that impressive in court. Came to me before the hearing and seemed to be trying to develop the idea that the reason that the Dvla had withdrawn the case was because of things that I had said to them since the magistrates hearing. I said I would strongly deny this if they tried this in court because it was untrue. The reason that the dvla had withdrawn the case is that their bullying game was up and they were about to lose.

 

Feel a little cheated but overall a most enjoyable day Paul

[postggj]

What a let down

 

so no case law

 

is this now a licence for dvla to carry on

 

DID YOU BE CHEEKY AND ASK FOR COSTS

 

AFTER ALL

 

DVLA HIT YOU IN THE MAGISTRATES COURT

[madsam]

What a shame, it's all part of their plan not to take it to the Crown Court so that they can continue to do this to everybody else, I thought for a moment their tactics had finally not worked out how they intended and their misdeeds were going to catch up with them. A year of my life exposing them on a similar issue that I hoped would result in them not being able to continue this behaviour to others that they profit from had pretty much the same outcome - DVLA shown to be lying, cheating crooks and completely in the wrong, but nobody's going to do anything about them so they'll continue to profit from their crooked activities.

 

I can only hope that justice will someday catch up with them another time, but until then - Paul, and anybody else, feel free to PM me and we can work to give our cases and findings more exposure - by making people aware of their rights and that the DVLA does not have a right to bully them in their single minded, amoral pursuit of profits based on a lying fraudulent pattern of behaviour.

[Gick]

Dear Paul,

 

Congratulation on your tenacity in taking it to Crown Court, shame that they managed to outmanoeuvre justice in this way.

 

I would suggest that a combination of newspaper/local television news magazines could be a good way to let more people know how devious they are, combined with a complaint through your MP. It might also be possible to complain to the Lord Chief Justice that the DVLA are using un proven interpretations of law in order to obtain convictions at summary level, which they then refuse to justify at appeal. He can call a case in if it is of sufficient public interest and make a ruling similar to a 'stated case'.

 

Regards

[reginald perrin]

Does this mean that we can now revert to civil redress in order to recover costs. After all sureley evidence from the big house is total !!!

[swanseafan]

Dear all In Crown Court today. Judge was very clever and basically delivered a prolonged bollocking to DVLA. No evidence was offered against me but I was given a very good opportunity to express all my views to the court. I did so and the Judge agreed with me that the DVLA should be and were embarrassed.

 

Rather regret really that they did not try to convict me because I feel so confident of my case.

 

Interpretation act. Delivered in due course unless proven otherwise. Dvla cannot prove other wise because questioning under the freedom of information act has already established that they do lose mail. acknowledgement letter is a request not a legal requirement. Case Won.

Thoroughly enjoyed my day in court. Dvla manager present was a decent bloke so where was he earlier in proceedings. Dvla barrister was a nice lady but not that impressive in court. Came to me before the hearing and seemed to be trying to develop the idea that the reason that the Dvla had withdrawn the case was because of things that I had said to them since the magistrates hearing. I said I would strongly deny this if they tried this in court because it was untrue. The reason that the dvla had withdrawn the case is that their bullying game was up and they were about to lose.

 

Feel a little cheated but overall a most enjoyable day Paul

 

 

 

where would i find the freedom of information information about the dvla losing mail?

thanks

[Number6]

Paul, I have PM'd you.

[millitant]

good luck on this

 

paul is the man

[MartyK]

Apologies to bring up a dead feed, but does anyone know where I would find this information on the Freedom of Information request regarding the DVLA losing mail?

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

[MARTIN3030]

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/internally_lost_mail_and_sorn_de#incoming-22566

[MartyK]

Many thanks for that. I'm having a very similar issue with the DVLA myself, and hope to fight the case using this evidence in the Magistrates Court next week.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok good luck,let us know how you get on with it.

[Old Cogger]

MarkBroadcast JournalistBBC Radio Sheffield

 

This is happening all the time, DVLA send letters/fines them Phillipis Debt collection letters, yet under Regulation 7 1978 Royal Mail delivery to DVLA as Agent for the Ministry of Transport will surfice, no mention of Recorded Delivery or proof of Posting, even their own letters are not Recorded Delivery etc

, But proof of DVLA that a letter informing sold, and vice versa,. there has been numerous complaint on different forums regarding this area of contention. Including one I read somewhere that awaiting to go into a court a defendant was approached by a Representative of DVLA and asked them what if any there defence was, and would they like to pay now and forget the case, they were told that under the above Regulation the DVLA Swansea was as quoted in 1st paragraph, the case was dropped there and then by the representative, I have sent a letter to DVLA regarding a car my daughter sold to a dealer in March and that under the Regulation it is deemed served by the Royal Mail to the DVLA Swansea as they are an Executive Agency of the Department of Transport, also have enclosed copy of date/time of sale to the garage concerned, that letter should be delivered Recorded Delivery to-morrow.

 

 

So hope he contacts you and good luck exposing this disgusting act they are exstorting fromthe Public, if the ordinary person would be led to believe they have broken the law when in actual fact in most cases they have not as sent to DVLA then as they represent the Secretary of State, unless of course we have to go to London and find him personaly.

[Number6]

Hi Paul,I'm Mark from BBC Radio Sheffield. I'm looking at doing a story about a listener who has been in the same situation as you. Here's the details:A Sheffield doctor says he felt so intimidated by an unexpected threat by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency to take him to court that he paid a £55 fine - despite the fact that he did nothing wrong. Iwan sold his car in January and immediately sent the V5C form to the to DVLA to register the car with the new owner.We are going to interview Iwan. He read about your situation on this website and sent me the link to the thread. I would really like to talk to you about the situation you were in and perhaps arrange an interview - to show that Iwan is not the only person who has been in this situation. I am looking to expose how many people the DVLA are making money from this way - I had a look at the FOI and was very disappointed that the DVLA managed to not reveal anything. If anyone has any ideas on how I can prove the scale of this issue, please do let me know.Could you give me a call at work please Paul? I'm on 01142675440.Best wishes,MarkBroadcast JournalistBBC Radio Sheffield

 

Hi Mark

 

You might want to check my thread on this issue:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345228-Failure-to-notify.-Another-case!

 

I've been as far as Crown Court so far. The whole thing is a semi-legal money-making [problem].

 

I'd be happy to contribute to any story you run.

[Old Cogger]

Thats the case quoted above I believe.

[Princess Layla]

Hello Paul

 

Is it possible that I can present your case to help with my own?

 

My date is Thursday the 16th Jan so time is short.

 

Would you be able to provide me with copies of your court documents or similar?

 

I am conversant with the interpretation act etc, its your specifics I need.

 

Hope you can help.

 

Thanks