freedom pass - caught. How do I get a replacement.

[mrdell80]

Hi All,

 

My wife used her FIL (father inlaw) freedom pass without his knowledge and got caught. The pass got confiscated and she is awaiting the letter from the tfl. I have found numerous post about how to go about it after I receive this letter.

 

We called up the council and told them this and now they have it on record. I then learn from the tfl that the card doesn't go back to council and stays as evidence for 7 years instead and I should have reported the card as lost instead. Now that we have already told that the pass is confiscated, could you please advice how to get a replacement pass? Also do we have to wait for the outcome of the case (which would take months), as her FIL really doesn't have anything to do with this.

 

Please advice,

MrDell.

[BazzaS]

Hi All,

 

My wife used her FIL (father inlaw) freedom pass without his knowledge and got caught. The pass got confiscated and she is awaiting the letter from the tfl. I have found numerous post about how to go about it after I receive this letter.

 

We called up the council and told them this and now they have it on record. I then learn from the tfl that the card doesn't go back to council and stays as evidence for 7 years instead and I should have reported the card as lost instead. Now that we have already told that the pass is confiscated, could you please advice how to get a replacement pass? Also do we have to wait for the outcome of the case (which would take months), as her FIL really doesn't have anything to do with this.

 

Please advice,

MrDell.

 

I've noticed CAG'gers to be mostly tolerant ...... So, it's unlikely they'll start saying how your wife is evil and deserves massive punishment, but one might expect them to say "here's how she can accept responsibility for her actions and limit the damage".

 

If you accept she's done wrong, is not part of that you too being honest .... Why would you post here that you want to lie and describe the pass as "lost" when you know that isn't the case?.

If you follow that route, would you be expecting help if they then withdrew any replacement pass issued under such a lie?.

 

I advise not lying, and asking for a replacement pass based on the truth. You might want to avoid mentionng details unless asked, to avoid the issue of if it was done without his consent, but if pressed on this you might place stress on how her FIL is an innocent party adversely affected by this. The downside of this approach is that either her FIL states he was complicit in the fraudulent use, or your wife has to "look worse" by accepting she took his pass without his knowledge or consent.

 

You might lie and describe it as "lost", but could dig yourself deeper into a hole if the truth then comes out, as well as decreasing the chance that any statement of the nature of "it was an aberration, out of character, and won't be repeated" will be accepted.

[MARTIN3030]

Thread moved here.

[SRPO]

You are in the wrong place if you are looking for dishonest advice.

[sailor sam]

Why would you (or your wife) need advice on obtaining a replacement pass for someone else? Should'nt the pass holder be reporting the pass as being lost or stolen (as it was used 'without his knowledge') and deal with it himself? Having said that, if TFL discover a connection which leads them to believe that the holder was involved in the 'miss-use', they could block a replacement being issued.

 

Unfortunately, this is what happens when people abuse the system and get caught.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[Desperate Daniella]

Hello Mr Dell,

 

You say your father did not know that your wife had used his Freedom Pass, and that the confiscated Pass is being kept as evidence. Therefore the only thing he can do to get a new Pass is to tell the truth and say his daughter took it without his permission. Really it is lucky you did not report the Pass as being lost as this would have made the situation worse for your wife.

 

DD

[Old-CodJA]

It is only the pass-holder who can apply for a replacement

 

If the pass holder admits that he knew that your wife was using it then he is complicit in the offence and very unlikely to get a replacement

 

If he didn't know she was using it, he should have reported it as lost before it was picked up by a revenue check otherwise more questions might be asked.

 

If it was taken without his knowledge, the question as to whether a theft might be pursued is a further consideration, but very unlikely to be pursued in my opinion, unless the authorised holder makes a formal complaint

 

The person to whom the pass was issued should write with an explanation and a polite request for replacement of the pass.

[Madamfluff]

I do take it you are paying your FILs transport costs whilst he has no free pass or is the poor old boy sat sitting at home with no where to go or paying his fares out of his own savings and/or pension

[rambo]

I know someone who lent his son his freedom pass, his son got caught and he has not been able to get a replacement because he did not report it stolen/lost.

TFL will prosecute, IMO.

[SRPO]

I know someone who lent his son his freedom pass, his son got caught and he has not been able to get a replacement because he did not report it stolen/lost.

TFL will prosecute, IMO.

 

Its a shame the councils dont take the same stance with benefit cheats.

[mrdell80]

Hey Thanks guys for all the advice.

 

And sorry to many how found my redundant posts on other topics as well - I wanted to leave a PM to one of the users and to do so, I should have had made at least 4 posts. Hence so many posts! Apologies!

 

As it stands, the council would not proceed unless the tfl notifies them about the confiscation. I am not sure if and when tfl would do so. Anybody, any clues?

Even if my father wants to write a letter to the council, I am sceptical if it would make a difference unless they hear from tfl.

When I asked the council, if I could submit the anticipated prosecution letter from tfl , they said that should help.

 

As for my father, I have topped his oyster with 90£ so that he is mobilised. My wife is completely ashamed of herself as she is a working lady and has no financial problems. She is taken upon her self, not to cheat or let any one else do so. I believe it was one of her weak moments in which she has done this benefit cheat.

 

I learn from the other threads that rosa2009 mum got her freedom pass back, but her inbox seems to be full and that thread closed

 

-Dell

[honeybee13]

Hello again MrDell, there you are . I thought we'd lost you.

 

I learn from the other threads that rosa2009 mum got her freedom pass back, but her inbox seems to be full and that thread closed

 

As you've found, not everyone replies to their old threads/PMs because they get the answer they need and then move on and we don't hear from them again, sadly.

 

I expect the guys will answer you once they have time to come back to the forum.

 

My best, HB

[mrdell80]

Thanks everyone,

 

Update: My father decided not to pursue the pass until the matter is resolved.

 

Yesterday, we received a letter from London Underground, about the incident and to write any comments on the reverse of the letter.

 

I wanted your advice on this matter. As I mentioned, my wife is extremely ashamed of her self. She wants to plead guilty and is ready to pay any cost involved and/or do community service, but avoid the courts.

 

I was able to get to one of the template letters, but i was not able to find the thread that has templates provided by Old-CodJA. Could someone provide me with a link please?

 

I also gather that I have to write a grovelling reply. What else do you guys think we could do?

1. Shall we call them up? The phone number mentioned is 020 7918 6016

2. Shall we visit them? Post code mentioned is SW7 2NJ

3. Or do you suggest we just reply and wait until they send a court summons or any other letter of communication?

 

Thanks a million,

Dell

Edited October 9, 2011 by mrdell80
added greetings!

[mrdell80]

Hi Guys, I need to reply to LU very soon! Any help soon is really appreciated.

[Old-CodJA]

Duplication deleted

Edited October 10, 2011 by Old-CodJA
Deleted duplication - my apology

[Old-CodJA]

Firstly, put the idea of your wife doing community service out of your mind. that is a serious penalty imposed by the Courts and you are trying to avoid that.

 

There is no guarantee that the Freedom Pass will be replaced, but if they are satisfied that your father did not knowingly hand it to her then they normally will do.

 

The reply to the prosecutor's office must be made by your wife. She is the person who is facing action and whilst you can help her write it, the letter does need to be her personal signed apology, explanation and request

 

She might like to try something along these lines:

 

Dear Sir or Madam;

 

Reference XXXXXXXXXXX

 

I wish to offer a most sincere apology to the rail company and the staff concerned for my irresponsible and uncharacteristic act in using my father-in-law's Freedom pass. I cannot give any rational explanation, but I do realise how very foolish I have been in taking this pass without his knowledge.

 

I am very concerned that this one-off incident of madness will have a wholly disproportionate effect on my future career and family life and I am truly ashamed of my actions.

 

I ask if I may be allowed to pay the fares and all the costs incurred by the company to settle this without Court action.

 

I really hope that I may be given a chance to make amends and give a sincere undertaking never to travel without a valid ticket again.

 

Give something like that a try, as I said previously, there are no guarantees that it will work, but it is certainly worth a try.

[mrdell80]

Thanks a lot Old-CodJA. My wife has written the letter and record delivered it. Lets wait and watch.

Thanks again.

[mrdell80]

Update: My wife sent the letter prepared on the lines by Old-CodJA and sent it by recorded delivery. She had then called up the Prosecution department to give them her apology and request for out of court settlement.

She spoke to the reporting manager and he heard her explanation as to how it will impact her career and how was it a plain simple first time mistake.

 

He said there are many people who do this once and want to brush it off by paying off the expenses, but if she can give a formal letter stating that she want out of court with evidences to support her concerns they can consider it. The decision is not yet made though so she requested him for a weeks time to send the letter.

 

Although he cant guarantee what would be the outcome, but he advised to send a letter stating that she would want to go for out of court settlement and to think carefully with all the evidences and send them by post.

 

Well my wifes genuine concerns are that she will have to let her employer know about the criminal record she holds and when its time to look for a new job or to apply for her visa extension in the UK or to travel to the USA she would have to declare all her civil and criminal offenses. This is pretty embarrassing and probably cost her opportunities as no one likes criminals. Is this good enough reasons to pen on the letter?

 

Again if any one has the experience of writing these letters, a draft is always welcome.

 

Thanks

Mr Dell

[Old-CodJA]

I suggest that they will look at all the relevant factors and it isn't unusual to get this kind of response first.

 

The person that your wife spoke to is quite right, many people do commit offences and then think it simply OK to pay to avoid the consequences and the TOC will not want this to become a commonplace occurrence.

 

The penalty fare scheme is designed to deter avoidance of low level fares, but isn't designed to replace the penalties at law set by Parliament for more serious offences. However, where there is no previous record of offending in this way, the TOC may consider dealing with any case by administration rather than proceeding straight to Court.

[llkkqq]

Hi mrdell80,

 

Any progress on your case? Thanks in advance.

 

Best Regards

 

Update: My wife sent the letter prepared on the lines by Old-CodJA and sent it by recorded delivery. She had then called up the Prosecution department to give them her apology and request for out of court settlement.

She spoke to the reporting manager and he heard her explanation as to how it will impact her career and how was it a plain simple first time mistake.

 

He said there are many people who do this once and want to brush it off by paying off the expenses, but if she can give a formal letter stating that she want out of court with evidences to support her concerns they can consider it. The decision is not yet made though so she requested him for a weeks time to send the letter.

 

Although he cant guarantee what would be the outcome, but he advised to send a letter stating that she would want to go for out of court settlement and to think carefully with all the evidences and send them by post.

 

Well my wifes genuine concerns are that she will have to let her employer know about the criminal record she holds and when its time to look for a new job or to apply for her visa extension in the UK or to travel to the USA she would have to declare all her civil and criminal offenses. This is pretty embarrassing and probably cost her opportunities as no one likes criminals. Is this good enough reasons to pen on the letter?

 

Again if any one has the experience of writing these letters, a draft is always welcome.

 

Thanks

Mr Dell

[mrdell80]

Update: My wife wrote to LU profusely apologising and stating how this will effect her current job and future visa applications. My wife received a communication from LU that they have received this letter and that they are considering it. This letter was received soon after she had sent her letter. Since then there has been no communication.

 

In the interim, my wife has lost her job and has to travel to her own country for about a month to sort out her visa issues. This means that the her mitigation circumstances do not hold anymore and now that she would be out of the country for more than a month, she will not be in receipt of her mails.

 

What is the correct way forward? Does she need to write this to LU (possibly awakening them up) or can she just leave the country for a month and then deal with it on her return?

 

I am hoping that she does not hear from them at all. Can she be assured that if there is no proceeding before Feb 2012 (6 months since the offence) my wife is off the hook?

 

Thanks.

[Old-CodJA]

Can she be assured that if there is no proceeding before Feb 2012 (6 months since the offence) my wife is off the hook? Thanks.

 

Not exactly. LU have six months from the date of the offence to lay the information before the Court office and get their summons authorised.

 

Because London courts are so busy, that could mean that any actual hearing date is set outside the six month period, but it would not normally be more than a month to six weeks later at worst. As long as any summons has been authorised it will be listed for hearing on a forthcoming date and that will depend on the availability of court time, but Home Office guidelines insist that the judicial system acts promptly

Edited January 7, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[mrdell80]

Hi,

My wife is writing here:

 

I have received the summons for a hearing on the 22nd of March, I called up the prosecutions to explain my situation now since I have lost my job due to redundancy and I have no income.

Also in addition I wanted to explain how it would affect my visa extension if I have a conviction / and how it will have an impact on my career.

 

The receiver on the phone said that he cannot change anything since these matters are not discussed over the call and also hinted that since I have received the summons there are very slim chances of them to consider and settle the matter out of court. But I can try to write to them again as I have a month before the hearing.

 

I have no clue what to do, I dont want a conviction.

 

Also since I lost my job last month and hence no income at the moment do I fill my income as nil since they ask me in the forms about my income or should i still in the income of my last job?

 

Please kindly help

[Old-CodJA]

Hi,

My wife is writing here:

 

I have received the summons for a hearing on the 22nd of March, I called up the prosecutions to explain my situation now since I have lost my job due to redundancy and I have no income.

Also in addition I wanted to explain how it would affect my visa extension if I have a conviction / and how it will have an impact on my career.

 

The receiver on the phone said that he cannot change anything since these matters are not discussed over the call and also hinted that since I have received the summons there are very slim chances of them to consider and settle the matter out of court. But I can try to write to them again as I have a month before the hearing.

 

I have no clue what to do, I dont want a conviction.

 

Also since I lost my job last month and hence no income at the moment do I fill my income as nil since they ask me in the forms about my income or should i still in the income of my last job?

 

Please kindly help

 

 

I did say there are never any guarantees that TfL will allow settlement in these cases. Misuse of Freedom Passes is a particularly serious issue and you can only ask them to consider an alternative disposal.

 

TfL do have an absolute right to proceed in such cases.

 

This does not mean that you should not try again, stress that any settlement figure that they suggest will be paid in full and immediately. (They cannot accept payment in instalments)

 

If all else fails and the matter continues to prosecution, you should state your means as they apply on the day of the court hearing. If you are unemployed with no income you should say so.

[SRPO]

I have never heard of TfL settling a Freedom Pass abuse case, they always prosecute in my experience.