Deposit dispute - landlord withholding for structural issues

[clairey]

Hi,

 

So I have delayed on this as I am also trying to take advice from a friend who is a solicitor. However, I received an 'official' rejection of my deposit claim from the DPS today, which must have been instigated by the LL. As a result, I have started to read up on next actions. On the Shelter website it advises sending the LBA with a completed N1 form. I read the documentation that went with it and I have two questions:

 

* The documentation is very clear about trying to resolve issues without the intervention of the courts. If I reject the use of ADR, will this be a negative thing? In the docs it says: Remember, you are expected to find another way of reaching an agreement before taking your claim to court. Otherwise, the court might decide that you will not get your costs back or that you should pay the other party’s costs, even if you win the case.

 

* Is making a claim online the same as submitting the N1 form? I.e. If I want to start the process online, should I not send the form with the LBA?

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Claire

[Snorkerz]

The choice is yours - ADR or courts. If you are asked in court why you chose that route, you say you tried to negotiate with the landlord but that failed, you chose court because there were things that you felt could be explained better orally. It IS possible to have the other partys costs awarded against you, but this is only in very exceptional circumstances. In small claims, those costs should be minimal anyway. If you win - I am confident you'll get your court fees awarded.

 

I don't get the thing about sending an N1. It is meant to show the other side that you are serious, but it proves nothing. If you want to do the claim online, I think (though I have never done it) you can complete so much of the claim and then save it to come back to later. If you did that and printed off the bit you have done I guess that would have the same effect. IMHO - pointless.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Snorkerz

[The Carpet Cleaners]

Yes you can fill in the form online a bit at a time, but as Snorkerz says why send the LL any of it. Once you complete the claim the LL will get the whole form anyhow.

The LL will then have 12 days from receipt to decide if they are going to defend or counter claim.

[clairey]

Okay, thanks for the advice both! The info I read was from the Shelter website - I was looking for example LBAs and they have a section here: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/downloads_and_tools/sample_letters

 

I think i will continue on the court route then. The LL's confidence is throwing me a bit! She seems completely unfazed by the whole thing.

 

Claire

[Snorkerz]

She may be unfazed - that's because she is stupid.

Between us, the posters on this forum will have had heck of a lot more experience of courts, and how they work, than she will have had. She is used to dealing with tenants who just roll over and give up - that's not you!

[The Carpet Cleaners]

I agree, many people send LBA's but once the court papers appear on her doorstep, she will then most likely take you seriously and start to try and negotiate.

[clairey]

Thanks guys! Your advice always gives me a confidence boost. LBA sent today.

 

Claire

[clairey]

Hey guys,

 

I just wanted to update regarding this. I sent my LBA and after 2 weeks had past I got an email from the LL stating she had only just received the letter. My post office tracking showed that the letter had been at the post office depot for 2 weeks and she'd failed to pick it up. She said she would send a response and I gave her one week to return the deposit. That week is now up and I received an email with the letter attached today. I am posting the scan (with names, etc, removed) so you can see that she is threatening to counter claim.

 

Again I must point out that so far the pictures she has sent me relating to the case are without date stamp, but you can clearly see the calendar hung in the background shows August, which is after I moved out.

 

My main question is about counter claim. Obviously, I was sharing the house with a flatmate during this period. That person is still in the property. How can she sue me for the cost of repairs when it was two of us in the property? And is she really going to sue my flatmate while she's still living there?? There's no reference to her at all (though I am keeping her informed of this as she is a key person back up my information and she is supporting me).

 

Thanks!

Claire

P.S. She still states we didn't inform her, but I don't know how she can still say that when we have evidence of email conversations with her about it. I find it all weird and confusing! She's not a stupid person, so this is really odd to me.

 

[clairey]

Unfortunately, due to a change in my personal circumstances, I had to cancel court plans. I had personal health problems, a job change, 4 week recouperation away from home, etc, so I just ended up submitting it to the ADR process. I just spoke to them and she has submitted her 'evidence', but because of Xmas & NY the DPS are behind on processing they haven't done anything with it yet. They don't even bother changing the status on the account! Useless. Just thought I'd update though as I appreciated the advice and will use it for presenting my part in the dispute resolution.

 

Thanks,

Claire

[clairey]

Hi everyone,

 

I received the evidence form today and the landlady's statement. I won't go into detail about my ineffective dealings with the DPS as that's a longer rant, but she submitted a statement that is 5 pages long. Rather than setting out anything very concrete, it starts with a personal history about why she's renting her home, there's a few fabricated facts along the way (a quote from my housemate that is untrue, for example), statements that mislead ('she changed her story' when in fact no story had yet been given), followed by completely untrue assertions about my nature ('she got aggressive', 'she cancelled appointments to resign contract'), etc.

 

From what I've read (and from common sense), bogging down the process with unnecessary details seems inappropriate. But I have a couple of questions:

 

1) I just want to add information pertaining to this particular case - do you suggest that I do this, or should I answer her assertions one by one, including the fibs about my personal character?

2) Would a signed statement from my housemate refuting the quote be sufficient to invalidate that evidence?

3) I don't have any of the photos or reports she submitted, so I don't know if they're dated - how should I deal with that?

4) Are there any good suggestions on how to maximise the success of refuting the landlord's claim? Her 5 page document seems excessive. In fact, the note that accompanied it said: 'The agent submits; The landlords written submission is extensive and a copy is attached.’

 

Thanks, everyone.

Claire

[Steve__M]

My personal view based only on my own common sense would be to state in one line that the landlady seems to have got very personal, that most of what she says is not true and that you'd prefer to focus on the evidence.

 

Then focus on the evidence!

[clairey]

Thanks, that's what I thought too. As you can probably see from my previous posts, there's very little 'evidence'. I believe her evidence consists of a few photos taken after I moved out, and a statement from her builder to explain the problems that occurred.

 

She does have an insurance document that I believe she got done after I moved out that states that the property is in good decorative order and used this as an example of calling me a liar because I said that the bathroom had problems with the tiling before I moved in. This can not be used as evidence of the state of repair of the bathroom prior to the problem occurring, can it? In the whole property, the only room that was old, shabby and not updated was the bathroom - old wooden window frame in the shower, poor tiling, etc. I don't think an assessor would have said this was in good decorative order had that room been assessed then. But without any documentary photographs or a signed inventory, she can't prove either way regardless, can she?

 

Thanks,

Claire

[Steve__M]

I think you are right. I guess it is important to put yourself in the seat of an over-worked ADR assessor and make sure that the key points are up front, short and clear.

[clairey]

Hi, it's been a while, but I thought I'd update about the outcome of this. The adjudicator decided that myself and my flatmate WERE liable for some cost of this. They said that the delay in advising the LL of the mould may have caused the problem to get worse. They felt her claim was excessive and awarded her £300. They said it was unfair for her to claim the whole amount from me, and so this is split with my flatmate, so in total they awarded her £150 of my deposit.

 

It's not too bad, but I'm still annoyed. Bear in mind I presented evidence of a precedent that the LL set for monitoring problems before reporting them. However, what seems to have been the key thing against me was that between the time we identified the problem and reporting to the LL, we had a separate conversation about something else with her. They felt we should have made her aware at that time.

 

Hope that helps anyone having similar issues, or at least contributes to the knowledge base around this kind of thing. It's certainly made me more aware of things around the house now.

 

Claire