1st Credit recent woes

[brokebutnotbeatn]

 

Edit - Looking at statments back from 2004 till today the first payment to 1st Credit was in April 2009. Will this mean if I had not made a payment since April 2003 (6 years) then I am paying a SB debt and am indeed a cash cow.....?

Did you pay in April 2003 or did you miss a payment in April 2003? The cock started ticking the date you missed a payment usually (but some T&Cs may 'allow' you to miss a month or two before you are defaulted).

[saggy]

Just found out that 1st Credit bought the debt in June 2005 but I dont appear to have made any payments until April 2009.

 

Halifax Cetelem do not appear to exist any more so finding out the last payment is going to be impossable.

 

What effect will this have on my CCA letter sent? Its not like they can go back to Cetelem and get a copy........

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Wait & see what comes first.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

coud you answer post #26?

[saggy]

coud you answer post #26?

Apologies. It was meant as more of a question than a statement. If I could prove that the last payment was April 2003 to Halifax Cetelem and I started paying 1st Credit in April 2009 - it 'may' be SBed. Thats where I was going with that.

 

I changed bank in 2004 owing the origional bank some money so I cant really go back to them for statements 8 or so years old to see if I had paid anything - though that debt is deffinatly SB.

 

If I knew how to find records from Hal Cet dating back that far I would but they dont exist anymore.

1st Credit bought the debt in 2005 so would they have anything before that? Im guessing no with Data Protection maybe?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

When debts are sold/purchased it is with minimal

information apart from ID the original creditor

and the OS balance.

[saggy]

So it may be impossable to find out when the last payment to Halifax Cetelem was?

Can this lack of knowledge on 1st Credit be used against them as I could say the last payment was 2001 and would have no way of arguing the toss?

 

Just throwing things out there....

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi saggy,

This is one case if in front of a judge 1ST Crud have the

burden of proof firmly on their shoulders, they have the

obvious evidence that they have bought a debt that

must have existed, you can obviously claim that the matter

is SB, but no proof, so dead lock.

I'm thinking would Halifax have any data, is it worth asking,

been over and over this and think see what Halifax has on file.

[saggy]

Halifax Cetelem no longer exists and I have spoken to Halifax and they seem to have no knowledge of Halifax Cetelem.

 

Doing a quick seach on the net shows they did join forces as it were with the companies 'Halifax' and 'Cetelem' hence the name but it seems 'Halifax Cetelem' ceased trading in 2007/2008.

 

Im at a loss as how I could find any records now or indeed how anyone else could

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Records must be available somewhere I agree,

records kept for 6 years so on the dates given

should be available to 2014 imho.

[saggy]

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/12143d6bcf0532a64c42ece16f937b0a/compdetails

 

They went from Halifax Cetelem to Cetelem UK and you can see on that link they went into liquidation.............

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Bloody frustrating the records must exist,

I'll think on.

 

Brig.

[saggy]

When debts are sold/purchased it is with minimal

information apart from ID the original creditor

and the OS balance.

 

If they are sold with so little information, and the origional Halifax Cetelem does not exist any more surely it would be impossable for them to produce a CCA?

 

And while I am asking them for this - I guess I should cancel the DD and stop paying them completly?

 

And if they try to make me pay higher payments due to missing payments while this is in dispute I can tell them to go forth........ They dont tell me what to pay but I tell them what I can afford to pay? Correct?

 

Does the fact that they cannot produce the CCA mean it is not enforcable? Or is it that if I have made any payment within a 6 year period means I am acknowledging the debt and must continue to pay? But again - they have to prove it has not been 6 years and will have trouble with the OC in liquidation............

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Exactly, you are totally in charge of what

you pay and HOW you pay it.

 

These debts are sold in portfolios of many thousands at a time,

for pennies in the pound, Iv'e heard of as little as 4 pence in the pound.

I think I would put them to strict proof of the existence of the debt,

as a formal complaint, and tell the no proof no pay.

 

Brig.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Well, I think on this basis that I would send them the SB letter. If at some point they can proof the payment then you can negotiate then. I wouldn't push at all to prove payment as if your dates are correct then the debt wouldn't become statute barred until the date of the missed payment which would be May (not April); that's why I asked the question in post 26! However, nothing ventured, nothing gained and it is up to them to proof it isn't SB'd and I doubt they wuill put any effort into that!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

LO again, my search engine has just come up with the following

which appears current'

 

Halifax Cetelem Credit Ltd,

Leo House, Railway Approach

Wallington,

SM6 0XX

0208 8254 7254.

 

Company description BANK.

[saggy]

Dead phone number.....

 

TBF all the numbers I have found for them are dead......

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Odd that seems to have been recently updated:???:

[saggy]

sooo.............

 

 

1. CCA letter sent to which they have 12+2 days to produce. Do they just have to acknowedge the letter within that time or actually produce the goods?
   
2. If they can produce this CCA then I could argue the case that it is probably SBed and see if they can prove otherwise (when i say probably I tell them it is)
   
3. If they produce the CCA then is SAR the next step? What information will I get from a SAR?
   

In case 1 above, if they cant produce the CCA then is the debt unenforcable? From what I can tell if it is SB then Im a cash cow. But if they can prove I have acknoweged the debt by making a payment in the 6 years previous to the 1st payment to 1st credit then it is enforcable?

 

Case 2 sorta ties in with case 1

 

Case 3 - what is the purpose of a SAR and what information will I gain by doing so?

 

Sorry for all the questions but Im trying to put in my head a tree diagram with questions with yes/no answers which lead to the next step to take.

Please correct anything I have said so far......

 

If I do send a SAR to 1st Credit they can only give details from the point that they bought the debt? correct?

[brokebutnotbeatn]

I would still send SB letter and let them prove it isn't...IMHO.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi A SAR will give you all the data the ORIGINAL CREDITOR

Holds on an account but in your case is pointless as they no longer

exist, I am thinking perhaps when the company folded that the

actual files may have gone to 1st credit as a debt purchaser.

The 12+ 2 days is to produce the agreement, they may try

and tell you they need more time to get it from the OC and we

know damn well that's a porkie straight away.

Point 2 is correct.

As to SAR to 1st Crud, wait and see what they

come up with on the CCA don't waste a tenner.

[saggy]

Thanks all for your help. Just waiting on a responce. In the meantime I have cancelled my DD while questioning this debt and waiting for the first thretening letter eh......

[saggy]

Just missed a call from 1st cred asking me to ring them. not sure how they got my number as i never gave it to them!!!!

 

Obviously I dont want to call them back but if they ring back it is ok to answer and say all correspondence will not be over the phone but in writing?

 

Whats the score with sending them a email stating this also requesting a reciept to say it has been read? or is email a no no as it may be open to abuse and it gives them another method of harrasing me.....?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi saggy, just say in writing only and hang up

it's alleged that they are aggressive on the phone.

I say alleged as we know that they monitor this forum:wave::wave:

[saggy]

Well....

 

Still waiting for the CCA to come through but during this time they continue to send letters....

This month I cant afford to send them anything anyway and im assuming thats ok while I am waiting for this letter back.....?

 

It is 12 + 2 days isnt it? Is it the +2 for the snail mail delivery times?