Rossendales Ctax - excessive fees + van fees **WON**

[Tomofthenight]

Right, I'll try and make this short for now.

My wife is a full time student at university receiving student finance.

 

Last year we were having real problems with SF(student finance) not making payment till months after due date, which had a knock on effect with paying bills. one of these being council tax. We contacted council to explain, but they would not give any leeway for delays with SF, and it was already in the hands of Rossendales.

 

Shortly afterwards we had a 1st visit, not let in, he refused to listen, said pay up or we'll be back.

 

Numerous calls to SF got us nowhere, then second visit appeared on 5th November when I was out, my daughter(18) let him in, I arrived home shortly after while he was still here and he said that he was levying goods.

 

He then gave me a notice of distress with inventory which he alone signed, stating charges:

 

Client debt................£905

First visit fee..............Blank

Second visit fee...........Blank

Levy fee...................£51.06

Walking possession.......Blank

Other..(Van)..............£130.00

 

Hand written at the top by the bailiff "to be paid by 19/11/10 in full" (14 days), at this point the bailiff told me if I paid the van fee, as a favor he would waive the other fees. I told him I could pay neither.

 

At this point I watched the bailiff get back in his van, the van was the size of the citreon saxo it was parked next to, and I took a foto of this. My wife's finance came through about a week and a half later, and at that point I went to the council offices to pay my council tax debt, and I paid by direct debit £956.06, alongside I put a letter explaining how this was split £905 client debt, £51,06 fees, but I was refusing to pay for the van.

 

The council accepted this as a disagreement between me and Rossendales.

 

Fast forward to July this year.

 

Rossendales write informing me of outstanding van costs of £130.00, and give me 14 days, or they will take things further. Ignored.

 

Another letter stating they will act upon the warrant unless payment made 14 days, van £130.00.

 

Most recent letter said "debt outstanding council tax band c £154.00, unless paid in full warrant will be executed.

 

I phoned council next day to ask if anything was outstanding for that year, and they said no, but said that they could give me no other advice than to pay up then complain later.

 

Sorry to go on so long, but I don't think that is right.

 

Any advice would be most welcome thankyou. T.O.T.N.

[ploddertom]

Are you saying the Levy fee & "Other" Fee were both charged at the same time? If so this is a no no and Tosserdales well know this. If you list the goods levied we can have a look to see if they can even justify the levy fee itself!.

 

PT

[dx100uk]

go away off me thinks

 

warrant my foot!

 

why is it ALWAY rossers! that try it on

 

dx

[Tomofthenight]

Hello PT,

Goods levied were:

A 12 year old 32in TV

A 6 foot by 4 foot solid wood kitchen table & 4 chairs

A 4 year old laptop that i'm writing this from

A microwave that doesn't work and my lass has been on to me to get rid of

and a dishwasher that is actually a tumble dryer.

 

Does that make a difference ?

[brassnecked]

If the fees are as per post #1 then i don't think they can charge a van fee, as he was levying goods and applying a walking posession even though he has left the charge blank, so perhaps the levy is invalid, and tossendales can go whistle.

[brassnecked]

Hello PT,

Goods levied were:

A 12 year old 32in TV

A 6 foot by 4 foot solid wood kitchen table & 4 chairs

A 4 year old laptop that i'm writing this from

A microwave that doesn't work and my lass has been on to me to get rid of

and a dishwasher that is actually a tumble dryer.

 

Does that make a difference ?

 

No disrespect intended but these items would not cover the cost of removal, auction fees, bailiff fees and a proportion of the debt, so may not stand up to scrutiny, Ploddertom is the one on this I think

[Tomofthenight]

No disrespect intended but these items would not cover the cost of removal, auction fees, bailiff fees and a proportion of the debt, so may not stand up to scrutiny, Ploddertom is the one on this I think

 

No disrespect taken, he was only allowed in the kitchen and no other rooms.

What I was concerned about was the fact they had changed the debt from van fees, to outstanding council tax debt.

[ploddertom]

Hello PT,

Goods levied were:

A 12 year old 32in TV - worthless

A 6 foot by 4 foot solid wood kitchen table & 4 chairs - may have some value

A 4 year old laptop that i'm writing this from - very little value

A microwave that doesn't work and my lass has been on to me to get rid of - no value

and a dishwasher that is actually a tumble dryer. - possibly could be exempt but if not no value

Does that make a difference ?

 

I'm not trying to demean your goods but to make an honest opinion of their worth at auction. On average items for sale at auction may only realise 10% of their true worth, as your alleged debt was £905 then they should have seized goods to the value of approx £9k. The whole object of seizing goods is if they were to be removed and sold at auction the price obtained overall must:

1 - cover all Bailiff fees

2 - cover all storage & removal costs

3 - cover the costs of the auction

4 - cover the Auctioneers fees

5 - cover a contribution to the debt outstanding

In my view if this had happened then the realisation would have been lucky to come to £100/£150 in total. Therefore I would use the argument that the Baiiff only made a levy in order to gain a financial advantage for himself and his Company, the fees should be removed and replaced with either a 1st or 2nd Visit Fee as applicable.

 

To move forward you must ask the Bailiffs for a breakdown of all the charges they applied to you. Here's a sample of what you could use, adapt as you see fit and send initially by email followed with a copy in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

Thank you PT, I will send this off tomorrow and post any reply, thanks for the advice T.O.T.N.

[ploddertom]

One thing you must remember, Bailiffs & their employers often read these forums and I don't doubt they can identify each case that crops up. The reasons for writing to them is to get them to admit in B&W that they state all their fees are charged in accordance with blah blah and are therefore correct. Second is to then get the Council to admit they back their Bailiff 100%. You can then dismantle all that with the relevant details and it is surprising how quickly somethings get turned around, others do take a bit longer however. There is no simple overnight fix and if you read some threads here will see some have battled for a year or more.

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

Ok, I sent off letter asking for breakdown of fees, and I received a reply earlier this week with a breakdown as follows:

 

bailiff visit date, time, name visit fee £24.50

bailiff visit date, time, name visit fee £18.00

bailiff visit date, time, name attendance fee £110.00 and levy fee £51.00

 

below that was information on both bailiffs certificates, then below that again it states;

 

" All of our fees are charged in accordance with the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement regulations and are clearly outlined on the instruction sheet that was left with the request for installments form by the first call bailiff. We can therefore confirm that all fees on your account have been applied lawfully. "

 

It seems strange that our van fees have gone from £130.00 on the levy form, and the first two letters,

then went up to £154.50 unpaid council tax with a warrant outstanding,

and now it is £110.00 attendance fee.

 

At least they aren't trying to confuse things !!

 

Any advice on where I go next ?

 

Thanks T.O.T.N.

[ploddertom]

Are any of the fees listed on the same date?

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

Yes PT both attendance fee and levy fee are by same bailiff same day and same time, does that help ? T.O.T.N.

[ploddertom]

So was the levy taken on his 3rd or later visit?

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

the charge for levy was made on the 3rd visit if that's what you mean.

[ploddertom]

OK,the assumption is he did not gain entry previous to this. Just trying to establish the sequence of events. I'll be back later.

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

Thanks PT ,

 

yes your are right in thinking that.

No entry was made prior to the 3rd visit, at which time attendance and levy fees were charged.

T.O.T.N.

[ploddertom]

My thoughts are that 1st & 2nd Visit fees are OK = £42-50 total. I would contest the levy on the principle that they have seized worthless goods, the Bailiff must surely have realised at the time there were not enough goods to satisfy the debt and if they were to be removed and sold at auction they would realise very little - not even covering any of the costs involved. This is something you need to put to them - a copy should also be sent to the Council - I don't doubt they will refute this and trot out the usual claptrap. If they do then it will be time to force the Council's hand by threatening to issue a Complaint in the Magistrates Court as an aggrieved party of the levy.

 

PT

[Tomofthenight]

OK, I cobbled together, and sent off a letter to tossendales saying I dispute the levy fee for the reason goods value wouldn't cover costs, and their dog should have realised that at the time.

I also told them that I wish repayment of the levy fee (£51.00) within 14 days or I would be forced to take the matter further, and that I had sent a copy of the letter to council.

I then went on to argue the van fees they were chasing, quoting the different amounts and descriptions for the fees. Then at the end I informed them that any further letters sent by me would cost them £25 admin charge.

I took the council's copy to them by hand, so that I could speak to someone face to face, but the woman at the council tax counter could offer no help at all, didn't know what to advise and after an age trying to explain to her, finally I got to speak to someone who could help. As soon as I started explaining my situation, he could see that I had a good point, and even seemed to reel back the more I explained.

Result is that he phoned tossendales and told them to cancel all outstanding fees, a return of fees to me, and he even removed the court costs that had been added prior to bailiff action. and all the time he was showing me on his pc that all these actions had taken place. It is a around £350 in fees and costs, so at least I can take that off next bill.

I must thank ploddertom for the fine advice, and if there are any further updates I shall post them.

T.O.T.N.

[dx100uk]

great news well done

 

can i mark this thread won!

 

dx

[Tomofthenight]

Mark away please DX and thanks.

T.O.T.N.

[stormski]

Hi,

 

Great news...!!

 

 

Regards,

Stormski

[ploddertom]

A most marvellous result and on the plus side there are others here who are having similar issues with the same Bailiff Company - I think I feel an attack coming on.

 

PT

[brassnecked]

superb result, they had been caught bang to rights adding dodgy fees.

[ploddertom]

You could always suggest the \Council file a Form 5 Complaint (Form 5 Notification to the county court of a complaint upheld against a certificated bailiff)