faulty ebay item from a business seller - fair deal/feedback request?

[lionalcook]

Hello all,

I need some clarification on ebays 'feedback extortion' policy.

Here is their policy on 'feedback extortion':

 

'Sellers may not require buyers to leave specific Feedback or Detailed Seller Ratings. Sellers also may not demand that buyers withdraw existing Feedback or Detailed Seller Ratings. These prohibitions apply to all Feedback activity, whether prior to, during, or after delivery of goods or services described in the original listing.

Breaches of this policy can result in a range of actions, including account suspension.'

 

So am I correct in saying that........ all a seller has to do, is just ask me to leave 'positive feedback' and not 'negative' or 'nuetral' then they are commiting feedback extortion.????

 

Thanks for any help/advice,

Lional.

Edited August 10, 2011 by lionalcook

[Kitten1]

You can only tell the truth really. I'm happy to leave positive feedback if the transaction goes ok or if a dispute is sorted out amicably in the end but I won't lie on the comments section. Sometimes a dispute gets raised needlessly so it all depends on the circumstances.

 

Can you elaborate a bit more about what you mean?

[Sidewinder]

Interesting terminology, and their examples of what is and what is not deemed 'feedback extortion' only slightly clarify things.

 

From Ebay

 

Examples that aren't Feedback extortion

Buyer says they will leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless the seller accepts a return and pays for return postage

Buyer says they will leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless the seller gives a full or partial refund for an item

Buyer feels the postage & packaging (P&P) costs are too high and says they will leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless the seller lowers the P&P costs

Buyer pays for the item and waits several weeks for it to arrive. The buyer then tells the seller that if the item doesn't arrive by a certain date, they will leave negative Feedback or low DSRs

Buyer receives the item and decides that it is significantly not as it was described in the original listing. The buyer tells the seller that they will leave negative Feedback unless the seller allows it to be returned for a refund

 

Examples of Feedback extortion

Seller refuses to post the item or refund the buyer unless the buyer leaves positive Feedback or good DSRs

Seller refuses to let a buyer use the warranty included in the listing unless the buyer leaves positive Feedback or good DSRs

Buyer threatens to leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless they get a full refund without posting the item back to the seller

Buyer threatens to leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless the seller sends an extra item that wasn't part of the original listing (unless the buyer wants a replacement for an item they're not satisfied with)

[/Quote]

 

So it would appear to mean that an Ebayer who simply asks you not to leave negative or neutral feedback isn't guilty of extortion. There has to be more to it than that, although the lines do appear to be blurred!

[lionalcook]

This is a message I received from a business seller:

 

"Yes I completely understand. I'll tell you what, if you return the item to me, on receipt I'll refund you the full amount you paid via PayPal, including the P&P charge, plus I'll send you an extra £3 via PayPal to cover your costs of returning.

 

HOWEVER, before I finally agree to do this I *must* have a categorical assurance from you that you will leave feedback of type "Positive" (not "Neutral" or "Negative")."

 

I have only included the parts that make reference to the section that I believe is 'feedback extortion' I havent left out any other important information and not included any identifiying information.

 

Is this feedback extortion?

[perplexity]

HOWEVER, before I finally agree to do this I *must* have a categorical assurance from you that you will leave feedback of type "Positive" (not "Neutral" or "Negative")."

 

I have only included the parts that make reference to the section that I believe is 'feedback extortion' I havent left out any other important information and not included any identifiying information.

 

Is this feedback extortion?

 

 

Probably.

 

The gist of eBay's Policy is that a member may not attempt to deprive another of a legal right. It is a legal right to expect the seller to pay for goods to be returned if the seller is at fault, so the seller would be out of order to demand a positive, and be at fault. On the other hand, a cancelled contract is supposed to be treated as if it had not been made, so it would then depend on another reason to complain, not a breach of contract.

 

The anomaly is that according to ebay, this is extortion:

 

Buyer threatens to leave negative Feedback or low DSRs unless they get a full refund without posting the item back to the seller

A buyer who cancels a distance contract is entitled to be completely reimbursed, without a duty to "deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing ....".

[lionalcook]

I have asked a business seller (on ebay) if I can return a faulty item and these are his responses - are these blackmail as i have been told they are but want to check for definate:

 

"if you return the item to me, on receipt I'll refund you the full amount you paid via PayPal, including the P&P charge, plus I'll send you an extra £3 via PayPal to cover your costs of returning.

 

HOWEVER, before I finally agree to do this I *must* have a categorical assurance from you that you will leave feedback of type "Positive" (not "Neutral" or "Negative")."

This is his response to me telling him that I will leave 'appropriate' feedback, and he assumes i mean negative when i mean appropriate! :

"If you leave negative feedback it is completely unfair. I have been nothing but helpful, bent over backwards, and even offered to give you more than what you are entitled to.

 

If you nonetheless do leave negative feedback, I will leave appropriate, very strongly worded feedback none the less. I'm happy for eBay to judge whether they want to remove it or not, I do things out of principle, and when I come across a truly reckless individual such as yourself, I believe other people need to be warned.

 

I'll also be suing you for defamation if you go ahead and leave negative feedback which is completely unfair. I know you are in some kind of disolusioned state thinking I'm some kind of evil con artist trying to con you out of your money so there is no reasoning with you anymore.

 

I am a very litigious person and have taken people to court several times over matters principle.

 

Choose yourself what actions you take but you can look forward to spending time in court with me if you proceed with your threats"

All of this is way over the top and he is overreacting regarding most of his comments and 'reckless' comments etc, also how can "i will leave appropriate feedback" be a threat?

I have phoned consumer direct and they said I can be compensated for 'out of pocket' expenses like return postage as I have to be in the same financial situation as i was before i bought the item.....and as he is a business seller his claims of "offered to give you more than what you are entitled to" (meaning return postage costs) is just spew to make me think he's doing me a favour as he is a very manipulative person.

[dx100uk]

might be a bit over top agreed

but

negative feedback can destroy a sellers reputation

 

he is, all by it a bit forcefully, offering you everything he needs too

 

pers i'd agree

but maybe pointout that p'haps he does not need to make such threats in all cases?

 

is their previous to this you are not telling us?

 

dx

[lionalcook]

the only thing i asked of him previously is that i wanted a refund as the item didnt work,

he has been very aggressive and manipulative and i havent done anything except ask for what i believe im entitled to

 

...all i want is confirmation that what he said is [EDIT] so i can just forget about getting the refund

and leave suitable feedback without fear of being sued

 

.if its [EDIT] i will email him back and say you are commiting [EDIT] so if you sue for defamtion i will report you for [EDIT] .

 

fore warned is fore armed as they say...i dont want to make myself look stupid by being incorrect.

[dx100uk]

i stand by my last post on the subject

 

as a site, please refrain from using the obvious word, we as well as you can be done for libel.

 

dx

siteteam

[perplexity]

..i dont want to make myself look stupid by being incorrect.

 

 

Pot - kettle - black.

 

Is this the lionalcook who sells on eBay?

 

It is a strict liability criminal offence for an invitation to purchase to omit the geographical address of the trader.

[lionalcook]

oh ok, didnt realise.

yeah thanks for advice on feedback but it wasnt the answer to my question - am i asking in the wrong place?

[perplexity]

Ebay's help page is perfectly clear about it:

 

Basics

 

Feedback extortion

 

Buyers aren't allowed to use threats of poor Feedback or low detailed seller ratings to get something that wasn't part of the original listing. Sellers aren't allowed to demand positive Feedback from buyers.

 

 

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/feedback-ov.html

 

Which part of "Sellers aren't allowed to demand positive Feedback from buyers" is so hard to get?

 

[Keldan]

I would play this straight down the line, use the resolution centre, inform the seller of this and ask them to cease and desist direct contact. Then go to item in my Ebay, click down on the list, then go to resolve problem, elect for item broken / not as described.

 

At this point a case is raised. He will be able to respond, however this will not change the outcome as long as there is no part of the auction describing damage you have identified related to the item. You will be given the option to receive full /part refund or other solution from memory. Opt for full refund, this will include your original postage. Onward, you will likely be instructed to return the item, do so by either tracked or recorded delivery,which unfortunately will likely be down to you.

 

When the seller receives the item you will receive your refund, as when there is a case opened the payment is frozen in their Paypal and freed up and forwarded to you.

 

On feedback, it is really down to how you feel as to whether you leave feedback at all. However, if you do leave Negative or Neutral, stick very strictly to facts just for example "Item broken, problematic resolution, I will not buy from again" I don't think you will go too far wrong.

 

Hope this helps

Edited August 11, 2011 by Keldan
Details missing and format

[perplexity]

I would play this straight down the line, use the resolution centre,

 

If he does that, eBay will not insist that the seller pays for the postage, to return the goods.

 

A buyer who cancels a distance contract is entitled to be completely reimbursed, without a duty to "deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing ....".

 

Is it out of time, beyond the seven working days, to cancel the contract?

[ashmk]

The seller sounds like an idiot.

If he had left it at the first message I would be happy to leave positive feedback as the seller is fixing the issue. Feedback could be along the lines of 'Item was faulty but seller refunded cost and P&P charges A+'

 

But if he then went on to send me threats then he would have found himself with a negative. 'Fauly item, Seller threatened court unless I left good feedback'

 

Sellers like this deserve the negative feedbacks. If he has said this to you then chances are he has said it to many many more.

 

Do what YOU think is right. I think he is bluffing over court and as long as you leave acurate feedback then nothing will happen. Keep all messages.

[raydetinu]

yes, raise a dispute, when resolved the transaction is cancelled and no feedback from either of need ever be recorded.

[hightail]

The feedback system on Ebay is ridiculous and anyway this seller should be more worried about the star ratings. All he's said is he wants positive feedback so give it him - and mark him one star for communication. Sellers can only leave positive feedback and if he leaves a negative comment ebay will remove it because it isn't allowed. A negative red dot against an ebay id can't be defamation so his threat of court is empty bluff.

[IdaInFife]

threads merged,

 

Me personally, would send the item back recorded delivery. and then send the seller an email confirming it has been sent and ask them to contact you when received and refund issued.

 

Then i would leave neutral feedback stating that item faulty but refund received but seller needs some customer service skills.

 

As long as your not stating that he commits fraud or something stupid like that you will be fine

[perplexity]

Which part of "Sellers aren't allowed to demand positive Feedback from buyers" is so hard to get?

 

Me personally, would send the item back recorded delivery. and then send the seller an email confirming it has been sent and ask them to contact you when received and refund issued.

 

Then i would leave neutral feedback stating that item faulty but refund received but seller needs some customer service skills.

 

As long as your not stating that he commits fraud or something stupid like that you will be fine

 

 

The issue is whether or not the seller pays to return the goods, his stance being tantamount to a threat to refuse to pay for the postage without a positive feedback.

 

What then do you propose to do when the seller refuses to pay, in view of a neutral feedback? A letter before action for the sake of the postage?

 

Just wondering.

 

If you are going to have to sue the seller to get the money you could just as well leave a negative, immediately.