Urgent Bailiff Help needed!!!

[becsimon]

Can anyone tell me if I am being spoofed by a local Bailff for outstanding council tax debts??? The breakdown is below of what I owed and what I have been charged

1st Debt

original debt - £268.06

Charges added

22.50 for first visit,

16.50 for second visit

Total charges £39.00

 

2nd Debt

original debt – 137.20

Charges added 22.50 for first visit

24.00 for levy

11.00 for walking possession (same day as levy)

125.00 for enforcement visit

0.00 for 2 further visits

Total charges £182.50

3rd Debt

original debt 332.86

Charges added 32.00 levy (same date as other debt)

11.00 for walking possession (same day as levy)

30.00 Bounced cheque fee

0.00 for 2 further visits

125.00 for enforcement visit (charged to this account yet paperwork is written out to first account!)

Total charges £198.00

TOTAL debts were :£738.12

TOTAL charges added are:£419.50

 

Not sure if they can charge levy and walking as it was the same day?

Can they charge it on both accounts as it was same day

First fee of £125 they never entered property or attempted to enter

Second fee of £125 they have charged to a different account than what is written on the removal notice, the one they have put on the removal notice has no levy or walk in obtained so is it therefore invalid????

 

What can i LEGALLY argue????

[hallowitch]

what goods did he levy

did he leave a walking possession agreement (did you sign it)

 

do you have dates fees were added on all accounts

[brassnecked]

Did you let the bailiff in? and if he levied did he leave a list of what property he had levied?, as if he levies on one he cannot levy the same goods for the second and third orders as after the first one he is effectively seizing his own goods.

 

contact the council and ask them

1: how many liability orders they have on you

2: how much are they for, as their figures will differ from the bailiffs, and we need sight of theoriginal debt to assess if the bailiff is naughty

3: when did they obtain them

4 When were they passed to the bailiffs.

 

I don't think they can charge separate fees on all the orders if the attend to levy them all on the same day, but others will know more

[becsimon]

Hi, yes he did get me to sign a walking possession agreement, I didnt let him in as such I live in a pub so quite easy for him to walk in. He levied my car on both accounts!! I have all the dates of the charges. I dont have a lot of the original paperwork as I have moved since the levy/walking in possesison took place. From what i can tell the original liability orders were as follows 1st debt £210.06, 2nd debt £137.20 and third debt £332.86

 

The first REMOVAL NOTICE i was charged £125 was not completed fully and just has account number on

The second REMOVAL NOTICE i was charged £125 has been charged to a different account to that which it has been added to

[hallowitch]

he cant levy your car twice

he cant charge multiple fees when enforcing more than one liability order at the same time

he cant charge a fee for a bounced cheque

what council and bailiff firm are you dealing with

 

is your car on HP

whats its value

 

send this by email to the bailiff firm

Name

Address

Bailiff Ref: Account No: 123456

Council Ref No: 435672

Date

Dear Sir,

With reference to the above account please provide me with a breakdown of all fees charged and payments made for the above account

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - The reason for the fee.

c - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - The date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10.

The National Standards for Enforcement Agents state that if a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.

Please provide the information requested within 14 days of this E-mail /recorded delivery letter

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

[becsimon]

My car is not on HP and is probably worth about £1200

[becsimon]

Sorry, I have already requested a full breakdown what I received was basically what I put in my initial post.It did not give times of visits or Bailiffs names who attended just dates and amounts. The Bailiff Company is Andrew James Enforcement in Swansea. The Council is Neath Port Talbot Council

[becsimon]

Here is their latest reply when I asked for them to place a temporary hold on the account for me to seek advice re charges???

 

We have clarified our position, there is no discrepancies with the charges that have been applied to your account they have been charged in strict accordance with the appropriate Council Tax Regulations.

Recovery is on-going and we would strongly urge you to make immediate payment as additional statutory costs could be incurred upon our further attendance which is imminent.

[hallowitch]

Here is their latest reply when I asked for them to place a temporary hold on the account for me to seek advice re charges???

 

We have clarified our position, there is no discrepancies with the charges that have been applied to your account they have been charged in strict accordance with the appropriate Council Tax Regulations.

 

Recovery is on-going and we would strongly urge you to make immediate payment as additional statutory costs could be incurred upon our further attendance which is imminent.

 

did this come from the council or Andrew James (not good to deal with )

how much have you paid how much do you still owe according to bailiffs

 

the bailiff should not have added van /attendance fee to the first account because there is no levy on this account this could be a mistake on there part (not likely though) they may be planing to add the next visit fee to the other debt (more than likely) however having said that the next visit may result in the removal of your car as they can only charge a van fee once per liability order(but not for multiple debts) to charge more fees they would have to remove the car

 

 

 

 

Go on your councils web site and have a look for the CEO and address a formal complaint letter to him/her

 

there can only be one levy on goods once goods are levied they no longer belong to the debtor they belong to the bailiff/council who levied them

a first levy would be lawful because your goods have been levied the second levy would be unlawful as the goods do not belong to you they belong to the bailiff/council the bailiff

 

Bailiffs can only levy goods that can can be sold at auction they cant (not for want of trying) sell the same goods twice

[becsimon]

To date I have paid them £590. They are claiming £567.62 outstanding.

 

Does the levy still stand in any event as I have moved goods from address they were levyed at?

 

Should I just hide car or sign it over to partner?? Reckon they will show up tommorrow

[becsimon]

The reply came from Andrew James not Council

[tomtubby]

The fees that a bailiff can charge are provided for in a Statutory Instrument as laid down by Parliament. The fee scale does NOT provide for an "enforcement fee".

 

In any event the local authority are WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for the levy and fees charged by their AGENTS.

 

This is explained in further detail in the CAG Newsletter that I posted earlier today:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?315154-CAG-Newsletter.-Bailiff-tactics-!!!

[becsimon]

So should my tactic be to write to the Local Authority and set out my concerns regarding the charges ie, the 2 enforcement fees and the bounced cheque fee and pay the balance to the Bailiff??? I am concerned as obviously they are not prepared to hold any action and say anothyer visit is imminient????

[tomtubby]

Read my Newsletter which answers your query.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?315154-CAG-Newsletter.-Bailiff-tactics-!!!(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[becsimon]

Have read the newsletter just concerned regarding the timing of it all!!! As I think they are likely to take the car in the next day or two???

[becsimon]

These guys are really a nightmare!!! Here is the letter that I today forwarded to the Council and AJE. Which details everything:

 

Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Ref: NPT14235, PNT02609, NPT14676

I write with regard to my recent dealings with yourselves following your instruction by Neath Port Talbot Council to collect outstanding Council Tax debts. I understand following confirmation with Neath Port Talbot Council that the amounts referred to you for collection on the three accounts were as follows: £332.86 referred on 14th May 2010, £94.70 referred on 27th May 2010, and £268.06 also referred on 27th May 2010. A total debt of £695.62. To date payments have been made to yourself totalling £590.00. I am therefore submitting with the hard copy of this letter the total of £105.62 which is the total amount outstanding to clear my indebtedness to Neath Port Talbot Council.

With regard to each account there appears to be an element of discrepancy regarding the fees/charges you have added and I am told that you are not by Law entitled to make a profit when recovering debts and are regulated in what can be charged. I will deal with these accounts individually for ease of reference.

PNT02609

For this account you state your charges as £32.00 for levy, this was actually your first visit and therefore the maximum that is allowed for a first visit in Wales is £22.50. You then entered a fee of £11 for Walking possession which is the set amount applicable in Wales and is therefore not disputed. You then made a fee of £30 for a bounced cheque which I do not consider you can legally do and is therefore disputed, my partner was charged by his Bank for the bounced cheque and therefore surely you would not encounter a charge. You then have added a £125 enforcement fee on 20th July 2011. I was actually at my address that day as was the vehicle you had placed a levy on and your Representative made no attempt to knock the door or remove the car, he merely posted a red removal notice through the door. A fact which can be confirmed by my CCTV system. I would also point out that the Removal Notice left that day has the reference number NPT14676 on it and not PNT02609 as you have charged it against. The account NPT14676 has no levy of goods attached to it and therefore is not subject to any levy.

On this account I therefore accept your fees to be £33.50 and not the £198 you are claiming

NPT14235

You claim you were seeking the total as per order of £137.20, Neath Port Talbot Council have confirmed the amount outstanding on this Liability Order when matter was referred to you was actually £94.70. On this account you have credited £22.50 for a first visit, a levy fee of £24.00 and a walking possession fee of £11.00. I will accept the fee of £22.50 for a first visit. However I do not accept the levy fee as the debt was under £100 the maximum that could be charged is £22.50. I have not yet clarified whether legally you are entitled to charge a levy and walking possession fee on 2 accounts when they are actioned on the same day. You again have added a removal fee of £125 when again your Represenative attended he made no effort to remove goods which were on site at the time, and merely posted the Removal Notice with no attempt to speak to me. I would also point out that this Removal notice is completely blank except for the reference number, no debt details or names or times have been completed and I would therefore suggest has not been validly completed.

On this account I therefore accept your fees to be £22.50

NPT14676

On this final account you have charged £22.50 for a first visit on 29/9/10 which is the same date that you attended with a removal notice for account NPT14235, on this date your representative made no attempt to speak to me and merely posted the removal notice, no paperwork was left regarding account NPT14676. On 8th April 2011 you have charged for a second visit, this amount is disputed as I actually had informed you I had moved address and you still made a visit to my old address.

I therefore dispute any costs on this account however as a gesture of goodwill I will be prepared to pay the £22.50 first visit fee.

I therefore agree to repay you fees in the sum of £78.50 immediately providing no further attempts are made to recover any further funds from me.

Perhaps you can confirm your acceptance of this by return. If this matter is not agreed in an amicable fashion then it is my intention to seek advice through the Courts regarding your fees.

Yours sincerely

And AJE's reply was:-

We are of course fully conversant with statutory legislation in respect of Council Tax and the charges on your account have been applied under

Statutory bailiff fees have been applied to your account in accordance with the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Amendment) (No.2) Regulations 1993 Regulations 45 and (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2004, Schedule 5.1 A (i), (ii), B, C & E (ii).

 

While we have already confirmed our position we would reiterate that lawful recovery is on-going.

[brassnecked]

These guys are really a nightmare!!!

 

We are of course fully conversant with statutory legislation in respect of Council Tax and the charges on your account have been applied under

Statutory bailiff fees have been applied to your account in accordance with the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Amendment) (No.2) Regulations 1993 Regulations 45 and (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2004, Schedule 5.1 A (i), (ii), B, C & E (ii).

 

While we have already confirmed our position we would reiterate that lawful recovery is on-going.

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely appalling, Formal Complaints to Council CEO, Leader Councillor and MP, with extra urgency perhaps a Regulation 46 naming the council as defendant as you are aggrieved by the levy due to it's dubious nature? Ploddertom and tomtubby are among the best on this so hopefully they will be along again soon. Try not to stress this can be sorted, Andrew James are a particularly nasty bunch of muppets but they will lose in the end.

[becsimon]

They have this morning returned at 640am and clamped my vehicle and are now driving round and round the block!!!!!!

[hallowitch]

get on the phone to your council ask to speak to the revenues manager

 

tell him that your car has been clamped and the bailiffs are driving round and round the block tell him you are in the process of complaining to aj about unlawful fees on your account

ask if the council are aware of these complaints (if not) why not as they are fully responsible for all actions of aj

ask for his e-mail address as you intend to pass all correspondence regarding this over to him

 

a walking possession fee is charged the same day as a levy fee but only if its signed by the debtor

[becsimon]

Well guess, they won, spoke to Council who werent particualrly helpful she said they could charge reasonable fees and that these get covered before the actual debt! Repaid the debt in fulll of £105.62. Was then told Bailiffs were prepared to reduce their fees by £168, but that left a total amount outstanding of £294, paid it under duress and due to intimidation by Bailiff, clamp has been removed. Account satisfied.

 

Not sure if I have any grounds of complaint or recourse now or any chance of seeing any of my money again?????

[hallowitch]

there is always recourse but AJ are xxxx and most councils don't give a shxx

the fact is under the law of seizure a bailiff cant levy the same goods twice

 

so how much did you pay in total

debt

fees

[becsimon]

Sorry for the delay in responding to this in total my original debt totalled £695.62, I actually repaid £989.62, so paid £294.00 over the debt presumably in charges. Do I have any recourse on this and who should I complain to????