Car Accident woes - help required please

[jo1lygrngiant]

Hi everyone, I wonder if anyone can please help me out here.

 

Basically I was involved in a car accident on the 8th Jul 11.

 

What happened, is I was ravelling down a main road, with 2 junctions directly going opposite directions, ie left / right.

 

There was a car in front of me, stationary, indicating to go right.

A car coming from the other direction, also wanted to turn right. ( I did not know this at the time).

The car in front of me, flashed the opposing car telling him it was ok for him to go, (again I did not know this at the time),he went, and I hit him side on.

 

Having never been in a accident before in my life, I called the police, as my car was undriveable. They came, took our details, I asked the police, as to whose fault do they think it was, and they said the other guy, as he should of ensured that the way was clear for him to go, rather than taking the car in front of me's word for it.The driver of the car in front of me, claims it was my fault, as she didn't see me in her mirrors. (I could of been in her blind spot). Independant witness says its the tp's fault.

 

Following day, contact my insurance company, they say they would put me through to a claims handling company, and then a solicitor would contact me re my injuries. (I am disabled, and the accident has really aggrevated my existing back injuries). Fast forward a couple of weeks. My car is a write off. The accident management co, have given us a claim figure, which we MUST accept. If we do not, then the courtesy car will be taken from us. If we would like our own valuation, again the courtesy car will be taken.

 

My back has been in complete spasms since the accident. I have been to the A&E dept, my docs on 3 occasions, each time am given diazapan for the spasms, and now on oral morphine for the pain.

 

Now, the main problem is, back in Apr, we ordered a new mobility car for me, which the del date has been put back due to the tsunami in Japan, so the est eta is now Oct.

 

We were going to use our car as full deposit against the new mobility car. The valuation of our car is £2100. (Pug 307 est vgc,apart from the accident, fsh, well looked after with 118k miles on the clock diesel)..

 

We are told that as soon as the finance co have taken their monies (only around £600 left to pay), we would get the balance and with that money, we are able to get a like for like car.

 

Only thing is, I am 6'4, and physically disabled with my back, hence we need a higher car for me to get in / out of.

 

We have been given the run around from the ins brokers (Kwikfit), the claims management co (AI solutions), and the solicitors (do not wish to name them at the moment). The sol's think we have a excellent case for keeping the courtesy car till our new one is ready. Kwikfit have wiped their hands of it all. AI are saying out of their jurisdiction, and can't / won't help.

 

Another company have come into it now, called ULR (who are basically Kwik Fit). They tell us that the letter received from AI with the valuation is not a formal offer of settlement, yet AI claim that it is. And a chq is on its way to the finance co.

 

I have looked and looked, for another pug 307, 04 plate sim milage etc, and am looking at at least £3000. Which we cannot afford.

 

Our sol's have said, well you can hire a car until your car is ready, its only around £20 a day, and we can add that to the claim for losses. Only thing is that £20 a day car is similar to a micra etc. No way in hell would I be able to get in or out of that. Also considering the time frame would cost us approx £800. Which would leave us again with issues when it comes to putting down the deposit for the mobility car.

 

I have contacted our insurance co. They now want to see the car for their own valuation. I have told them that the car is not being repaired on our insurance, I am not claiming on our insurance. When I rang my ins co, they had no idea of the accident in the first place. After contacting kwikfit, I am told, that I had to tell the ins co. I would of thought that was their job?. I could be wrong though.

 

Sol's have mentioned that the tp has now not admitted liablility, now claiming it was my fault. His insurers wish to investigate, which could take 2-3 months from the date of the accident.They also wish to see the police report, which again could be 3-4 months down the line.

 

Is there anything else we can do.. My wife needs our car to get to and back to work. She works 25 miles away, starts at 7am, so public transport is well out of the equation.

 

Additional info. It's the wifes car, we are fully comp, and have Legal Protection. I was using the car for business purposes, of which we are insured for.

 

Would be happy to answer any questions. Thanks for reading the war and peace novel

[raydetinu]

I would defo just let your insurance company handle it, less stress.

As you were injured, what if anything did the police do at the time and have they asked for a statement from you.

If the accident occred as you said, Indeed the position of the cars would confirm it; I am surprised they are not considering a charge of driving without due care and attention on the TP!. You could always ask them if they are going to prsecute them ( would help your case if they did )

Your own policy may include for a courtesy car or can hire one and addthat to your claim aginst the TP, which you can take to court if you wish.

[sailor sam]

I agree with Ray. But I would of asked the police there and then to take a statement from me to the effect of pressing charges against the TP. Contact the officer who attended and see if this is still possible. As Ray says, this would assist your case.

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[jo1lygrngiant]

Thank you for the sincere wishes and advice.

 

At the time of the accident, all the police did was take our names and addresses, and those of the witnesses. At no time did they mention any statements etc. I still have the log no of the original call, together with all the other paperwork, which has been sent, and emails back and forth. Notes of conversations, times who with etc. Basically a whole log of the saga from the start.

 

The accident did occur exactly as I stated, however the tp moved his car, as it was blocking the left junction, away so that traffic could get into that junction. I had no time to take pics with my phone, as no sooner did I hit him, then he started driving away. My initial thought was it was a hit and run, and I was getting his reg no. Then the 3rd party witness came running up to me, asking if I was ok, mentioning hes a trained first aider.

 

I managed to get out of the car, at this point the tp came over, and asked if I was ok. I was fine (probably adrenaline), but he complained of a pain in his side. I asked numerous times if he wanted me to call an ambulance. I then mentioned that I think its best to call the police, and he got a little cagey, saying is it really required. This is when I called them in any case, just in case..

 

The following day (Sat) I went to A&E, saw a doc who checked me over for whiplash, and my back spasms, and told me to see my gp in a few days if no better. The Mon I was back at my GP as was still in severe agony. She prescribed extra pain relief on top of what im already on. That same thurs back again, and my GP, after checking mentioned that he could physically see the spasms in my back and prescribed more diazapam, and to see him in a couple of weeks.

 

The week later, on the thurs, back to the GP, still in agony, when he prescribed another dose of diazapan, and now oral morphine. Which are both knocking me sideways as you can expect.

 

I have today received a letter from some medical place stating that they want a independent doctor to check me over, and give me a physical. The appt is for a wk today, but am having to postpone it, as I am still not in a position to drive. Also the boss is away for the next 2 weeks with work.

 

What's embarrassing though, is I am having to ask my wife to help me get dressed and undressed, as I cannot physically bend over to put my shoes, socks pants on etc. And for the next 2 weeks whilst shes away, I'm having to ask a really good friend and neighbour to help me. That is embarrassing to say the least for both of us lol.

 

In your wisdom, as I remember you guys from years back when I visited cag often (I respect you both).

 

A few questions spring to mind.

 

A). What are the chances of us keeping the hire car we have now, till ours is ready for collection.

 

B). If as AI claim they remove the hire car from us, what then?, as far as the tp's insurance are concerned, its game over. They have fulfilled their end of the bargain. Although they are now not admitting liability.

 

C). The sol's, and this ULR have not come across this previously, whereby a car has been on order for a long period of time. (We have proof of the original order form etc).

 

D). What would happen if we do not have a hire car, we have to purchase a replacement, use that until the new one is ready, obviously we would have to then sell it or px it. We would lose out on both aspects of this. Therefore what would happen re the remaining part of the deposit. We are talking of a deposit of £1345, which we do not have, simply put.

 

E). Just let our insurance deal with every aspect, no longer chase around the houses, as no one seems to be in a position to help us, or want to help us, which is where we are getting really frustrated to be honest. It is causing arguments between the boss and me, we are both getting stressed out because of it. As we are not claiming off our insurer's but the tp's, will our insurers actually do anything?, or are they in a position to do anything. There is a slight chance that the tp will attempt to claim off our insurers, that I do not know.

 

Thanks once again for your time and troubles reading this. I really do appreciate it

[sailor sam]

The nuts and bolts of the matter is (as I see it), that the TP is fully liable for the accident. The police will only take statements if they believe an offence lead to the accident and they have to be called in any event where injuries have occured. However, if someone makes a complaint agianst the other party, stating that the accident was a result of a moving traffic offence (such as careless driving ect), then the police are obliged to investigate and as such should take statements. It does not always follow that they will prosecute but if there are other witnesses who are prepared to give evidence, then it is likely that they will.

 

As for your hire/courtsey car (or any other consiquential losses for that matter), this ultimately will be handled by the TP or his insurers. If for some reason you loose the car you have at present, you should make it clear to your insurers that you will expect to be able to recover any costs back for hiring a car yourself should you have to do so. They should then pss this on to the TP's insurers for you.

 

Ideally option 'E' should apply here but it would help if you have full legal protection on yiour own policy in which case, they should be doing all the chasing for you.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[jo1lygrngiant]

Thanks Sam, we do have full legal cover, which is this ULR aka kwikfit, who are passing the buck all over the place.

 

They are claiming that as soon as a chq has been released, end of. Nothing else they can or will be prepared to do.

 

I have contacted my insurers earlier, and informed them to take over the claim. Firstly it was a notification, but as we are getting nowhere, I have passed it all over to them.

 

They did mention that we would have to pay our xs, of £250 which would be added onto additional costs, but as its a write off, would not do anything about a further courtesy car. All they want to do at the moment is to collect the car from where ever it is, have it valued themselves, and then offer us a valuation from that. If we do not like their valuation then we can decline it, they would offer another, again if declined, then have to take details of adverts of similar make and model and costings, and they would adjust, or something along those lines.

 

However that still leaves us with the problem of the replacement car and the deposit on the new one. Which is the crux of the matter..

 

I really do appreciate the advice though .

 

If ever I can help with a computer problem, please let me know, as its my trade .

[Gick]

I am sorry for your problems.

 

On the point of charging the third party, unless the driver was given a verbal Notice of Intended Prosection at the time, or one was sent within the 14 days following the RTC, unfortunately no further action can be taken by the Police (Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988). It may be that the officer who attended and gave his opinion that the third party was at fault, did indeed verbally warn him (NIP), but I would have expected that where prosecution for driving without due care and attention was a possibility, the officer would have taken statements from all witnesses by now. If you contact the Road Policing Unit of your area, they should be able to tell you if this has been done.

 

The absence of a prosecution may be used by the third party insurance to attempt a mitigation of their liability, but if what you have posted here is supported by decent diagrams of the junction and a clear and concise statement of the facts, your insurance company will be able to sort things out, including recovering any claim excess that applies. You say that you do not want to claim on your insurance, but I am guessing that what you mean is that you do not wish to lose your no claims bonus. You must accept that in the first instance this ncb will be suspended when your insurance is renewed, but you will get it back when your insurance company has recovered the claim from the third party's insurance. That is the way these things work.

 

A note for the future, had you used a 'proper' broker, i.e. one whose prime business is insurance, you might have received more help from them viz a viz the courtesy car, as you are their client, not just an add-on customer from a High Street operation.

 

 

 

It appears from your description that this was a cross roads on which you were travelling with priority. The turning drivers should have passed and turned behind each other so that they had a clear view of any other traffic. Unfortunately many drivers have forgotten this rule of the road.

[crem]

It appears from your description that this was a cross roads on which you were travelling with priority. The turning drivers should have passed and turned behind each other so that they had a clear view of any other traffic. Unfortunately many drivers have forgotten this rule of the road.

 

as a side issue, this is not a "rule of the road", only the recommended method if space is available to do so. In the majority of junctions, particularly smaller residential areas, such a manoeuvre would be physically impossible.

[traffer]

The TP insurers should pay an amount to make good your loss. Pure and simple. Problem is that these days too many other parasites get involved, all taking their cut. No way was it your fault.

[jo1lygrngiant]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have contacted our insurance co as previously stated, and am now playing a waiting game.

 

Will keep everyone informed as to what happens and when. Although this may take some time. I have no idea as to how long these things take.

 

Thanks again, and have a great weekend everyone

 

be safe

[raydetinu]

as you were injured and suffered as a result, are you considering an injury claim as well, if so you should notify your insurers about that as well.

 

Gick, IMO you are wrong about the NIP following an accident, I understand that the accident itself is considered notification, especioally if someone is injured, and anybody involved can subsequently be investigated and prosecuted.

I therefore suggest OP, as sailer says, makes a complaint about the incident.

Edited July 29, 2011 by raydetinu

[jo1lygrngiant]

Thanks again for the info. I will contact the police in the morning, I have the call log number, so will update them as to the injuries sustained. My insurance co are already aware of my injuries.

[Gick]

crem,

sorry, I should have placed 'rule of the road' in inverted commas to indicate that I was referring to the previously accepted norm, not as a regulation. Highway Code 181 makes it clear that the preferred method is right hand side to right hand side. There is an additional onus of care if passing in front of each other.

 

raydetinu,

mea culpa! Yes you are right, I omitted to read the supplementary section. Lesson in checking all possibilities, particularly legislation enactwed after my leaving the Force!

[crem]

crem,

sorry, I should have placed 'rule of the road' in inverted commas to indicate that I was referring to the previously accepted norm, not as a regulation. Highway Code 181 makes it clear that the preferred method is right hand side to right hand side. There is an additional onus of care if passing in front of each other.

 

You're quite right, it still states that. However, I would disagree it has ever been " the norm" in that as I said, for you to be able to pass "driver to driver side" requires more space than is usually available at most residential street junctions.

 

Even on larger junctions, perhaps controlled by traffic lights, it is more the norm to go nearside to nearside as this allows each right-turning queue to move when the oncoming traffic clears as otherwise the 2 queues of right-turners "gridlock" each other.

[Gick]

crem,

when I started driving in 1961 it was very much the way that we were taught and my recollection of the Highway Code at that time was that the only illustration was 'right to right'. It may well be that city drivers adopted the 'left to left' system earlier than we in the sticks, but it seemed to appear in the 1980's at the same time as mini roundabouts which took out some of the wider junction not controlled by traffic lights.

[raydetinu]

yep agree nearside to nearside seems to be the norm these days, especially at larger junctions and they are in fact marked and arrowed that way.

[T.C.]

I am sorry for your problems.

 

On the point of charging the third party, unless the driver was given a verbal Notice of Intended Prosection at the time, or one was sent within the 14 days following the RTC, unfortunately no further action can be taken by the Police (Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988). It may be that the officer who attended and gave his opinion that the third party was at fault, did indeed verbally warn him (NIP), but I would have expected that where prosecution for driving without due care and attention was a possibility, the officer would have taken statements from all witnesses by now. If you contact the Road Policing Unit of your area, they should be able to tell you if this has been done.

 

The absence of a prosecution may be used by the third party insurance to attempt a mitigation of their liability, but if what you have posted here is supported by decent diagrams of the junction and a clear and concise statement of the facts, your insurance company will be able to sort things out, including recovering any claim excess that applies. You say that you do not want to claim on your insurance, but I am guessing that what you mean is that you do not wish to lose your no claims bonus. You must accept that in the first instance this ncb will be suspended when your insurance is renewed, but you will get it back when your insurance company has recovered the claim from the third party's insurance. That is the way these things work.

 

An NIP is only required in certain circumstances, The provisions apply to a number of motoring offences too numerous to list here. The provisions do not apply in relation to an offence if, at the time of the offence or immediately after it, an accident occurs.

 

Clearly this matter did involve an accident and so no NIP is required, however had one of the drivers failed to stop, then an NIP would have been required to be sent to the non stop driver or the address of the registered keeper as it is one of the offences listed for which an NIP is required.

 

Much of who was is liable would depend on a number of factors, bearing in mind that if the third party was flashed out, and as a result f being flashed the TP then proceeded, then liability sways towards the third party as a flashing headlight simply means "I am here" and should not be taken as carte blanche to proceed.

 

Also, were there any road markings indicating which side vehicles should pass on? Some junctions will have vehicles pass nearside to nearside, some are offside to offside, and this could have a bearing.

 

The third party insurers will always try and use the lack of a prosecution to mitigate their defence. However, unlike a magistrates or crown court where the prosecution has to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, in civil cases (which is what claims are covered under) the claimant only has to show on thew balance of probability of 51% or better.

 

So what this boils down to is that further investigation is required as it is often quite easy to determine liability once an expert has looked at the scene, looked at the photographs and taken a few himself.

 

Given that you sustained an injury, even though you have LEI (which in 99.9% of cases is a waste of money and a con by the insurers) you may be better off speaking to a personal injury solicitor of your choosing and get them to fund your case under a conditional fee agreement (no win no fee) as this will avoid the need to have to deal with your insurance company, and because they do not get paid if they do not win the case, often have the drive to get matters resolved more efficiently.

 

There are a number of issues here, and the fact that you have a loan/hore car, it will need to be shown that the ongoing costs were justified as the claimant is required to mitigate any ongoing expenses. Given your situation, I do not see this being a problem, but on the other side of the coin, the third party also has a duty not to prolong matters just because they are digging their heels in.

 

You need to get proper legal advice.

 

If you need further assistance, feel free to message me, and I will be more than happy to give you a call and have a no obligation chat. I work in personal injury law as an accident investigator and road traffic legal advisor.

[crem]

It would be interesting (if only out of curiosity) to view the junction in google earth if you could give us the name of the roads and the town it is in.

[jo1lygrngiant]

My apologies in not replying sooner to this thread.

 

The actual road names etc, are Liverpool Road, Irlam, Manchester (Main Road), with the junction of Silver St, and Boat Lane.

 

We eventually got paid out for our car, in Dec 11. Some 5 months after the accident. PI claim is still ongoing.

[oddjobbob]

HOLD ON to the courtesy car.. it is the ONLY weapon you have against the insurers.

 

Tell them yuo have 6 ads for cars similar to yours, they are for £3000, and that is what you want in settlement NO ARGUMENT.

 

They may well ask you to forward the ads in 'proof' .. do so.

 

DO NOT part with the coutesy car until your claim is settled / it is confirmed in writing tha a cheque for a satisfactroy amount is on its way to you.

 

I had this years ago whem my honda was written off. They started at £1200, I said no £2000, they said we want the hire car back, I said no not till its settled.

 

Bear in mind that the hire car is costing them £150 week, so as long as you KEEP IT they wil leventually settle at the figure you want.

 

But oyu've got to be determined. Insist that you will not part with the hire car until your claim is settled.. you don't have to I assure you!

 

Also it might be worth mentionnig that you are disabled and that if they hassle you by comnig to your house etc you will call the local paper to photograph you in yuor wheelcair whilst the hire car is being taken,

 

Dont give in!