Just a Question about house deeds

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi there,

 

i wonder, as everyone on this site has been so helpful and knowledgeable regarding my first thread (help my husbands 18 year old mortgage debt landed on the doorstep this morning), whether there is anyone on here who could answer this question.

 

When i bought the house we now live in i used an internet firm of solicitors and required, as is usual, a mortgage. When the transaction went through i received through the post the original deeds to the house, all beautifully written, and almost totally illegible to the modern eye, in copperplate.

 

i always thought that the mortgage company held the deeds to the property until you pay the mortgage off....am i right or wrong?????

 

now this is just a question of interest, something that leaves me truly 'perplexed of Dorset' (i had wanted 'terrified' as my sign in name when i registered but apparently someone already has that moniker!!!!)

Edited July 26, 2011 by perplexedofdorset

[Conniff]

Is this the actual deeds or just the information pack that goes with it ?

[perplexedofdorset]

no, the hard, big, virtually un-bendable parchment deeleys, right from when the house was first sold.

[ClaireCardwell]

I'm a lawyer so can answer this question no problem for you.

 

The title deeds for the properties used to go to the mortgage lender to hold as part of their security. You would get a Charge Certificate (blue book type thing) with the legal charge/mortgage deed attached to the back. The pre-reg deeds on parchment etc would also form part of the deeds bundle.

 

In approximately 2003 a process called dematerialisation came into place whereby the lenders decided they did not want to hold the title deeds anymore, and the deeds were then forwarded to the owners of the property or their solicitors for safe keeping.

 

If the mortgage was before 2003 tehnicalyl the lender should have the deeds, if after then you would hold them. Either way if there is a secured charge registered at Land Registry the Lender still has an interest in the property.

 

Claire

[Lea_HTH]

I'm a lawyer so can answer this question no problem for you...

 

Just curious to know if it's more than you that uses your login name?

[perplexedofdorset]

Just curious to know if it's more than you that uses your login name?

 

me or her???

 

Thank you, that would make sense, My flat's deeds . bought in '97 , were held at the solicitors, this houses deeds, bought '06, were forwarded to me on completion.

 

i did have an idle fantasy that someone had cocked up and i didn't have to pay the mortgage as i owned the deeds!!!

never mind back to reality!!

[Lea_HTH]

Just curious to know if it's more than you that uses your login name?

 

me or her???

 

Thank you, that would make sense, My flat's deeds . bought in '97 , were held at the solicitors, this houses deeds, bought '06, were forwarded to me on completion.

 

i did have an idle fantasy that someone had cocked up and i didn't have to pay the mortgage as i owned the deeds!!!

never mind back to reality!!

 

I quoted ClaireCardwell...so obviously I was asking her.

 

Take the information you received with a pinch of salt. The clue was in the obvious complete misunderstanding of demat (for the record it was developed by HM Land Registry in a project with the Nationwide and was the Government's first step to full electronic conveyancing - there is no set date when it became effective, different lenders on different dates - e.g. Leeds Building Society only started in Dec of 2010).

 

The deeds are held electronically by the Land Registry - it simply doesn't matter who has the originals. Plus, even if the deeds were off on a jolly somewhere and not registered, there is such a thing as Equity in the law which will do what should have been seen to be done - in other words, you take a loan, even if there is incomplete paperwork, the mortgage against the property would be seen to be equitable, i.e. you would remain liable to repay it.

[ClaireCardwell]

Sorry LEA have i offeneded you in some way? I was simply trying to answer the question posted as simply as possible? I am fully aware of how it was developed and by who, and in general most lenders that I deal with started to use this process in "approximately" 2003 Halifax Barclays B&B (at the time). I didnt go into the major ins and outs as am sure you will appreciate most people who arent involved in the legal profession dont understand legal talk so I worded it in leyman's terms.

 

i dont think perplex needs to know about equity in law or anything else along those lines, she/he simply wanted to know about deeds. We could all go into the ins and outs about CML. demat, adverse possesion, prescriptive rights etc, electronic conveyancing, the new LR portal or the new Quality scheme being introduced, but these were not relevant. She/He simply wanted to know why they had received deeds on one property but not on another.

 

As I said sorry if I caused offence or you thought my response was misleading, but it was written as simply as possible and answered the question which was asked.

[Lea_HTH]

Sorry LEA have i offeneded you in some way? I was simply trying to answer the question posted as simply as possible? I am fully aware of how it was developed and by who, and in general most lenders that I deal with started to use this process in "approximately" 2003 Halifax Barclays B&B (at the time). I didnt go into the major ins and outs as am sure you will appreciate most people who arent involved in the legal profession dont understand legal talk so I worded it in leyman's terms.

 

i dont think perplex needs to know about equity in law or anything else along those lines, she/he simply wanted to know about deeds. We could all go into the ins and outs about CML. demat, adverse possesion, prescriptive rights etc, electronic conveyancing, the new LR portal or the new Quality scheme being introduced, but these were not relevant. She/He simply wanted to know why they had received deeds on one property but not on another.

 

As I said sorry if I caused offence or you thought my response was misleading, but it was written as simply as possible and answered the question which was asked.

 

 

Care to answer my original question? Do many others use your login name?

[ClaireCardwell]

Not to my knowledge.............although my partner and son have access to the computer also.

[Lea_HTH]

Not to my knowledge.............although my partner and son have access to the computer also.

 

Not that you have to answer, but can you tell me what sort of 'lawyer' you are claiming to be in your response above?

[ClaireCardwell]

I am not as you put it "claiming" to be anything. I deal simply in property. I am a conveyancer.

I used the word "lawyer" as not everyone knows what a conveyancer is.

 

Why the interest?

[ClaireCardwell]

I work specifically for builders in land purchases and plot sales....... I do not deal in "high street" conveyancing anymore.

[Lea_HTH]

I am not as you put it "claiming" to be anything. I deal simply in property. I am a conveyancer.

I used the word "lawyer" as not everyone knows what a conveyancer is.

 

Why the interest?

 

Is 'ClaireCardwell' a pseudonym or your own name?

[ClaireCardwell]

It was my married name - I dont see the relevance?

I was simply trying to help someone and feel like I am now under interrogation.............

[PriorityOne]

So.... if someone pays off their mortgage (or not) and say, loses the Deeds or they are stolen or destroyed in a fire for example, would the record of their ownership of that property still be safe; ie, logged at the Land Registry?

 

I always thought Deeds were held by the mortgage companies or banks as well until it was all paid..... I'm not sure I like the idea of relying on computer records as proof that I may own my house if those Deeds were to go missing.

 

[maroondevo52]

The importance of being able to locate your title deeds has diminished considerably over recent years as all registered titles are now held digitally by the Land Registry, i.e. the title deeds are now stored on the Land Registry's computers.

 

This means that you can obtain copies of them whenever you want. They are usually able to supply them the same day that they are ordered.

[Lea_HTH]

It was my married name - I dont see the relevance?

I was simply trying to help someone and feel like I am now under interrogation.............

 

I was interrogating you. It's a skill real lawyers pick up - oddly enough it even works online.

[ClaireCardwell]

Am not sure I dare reply in case am interrogated some more..............however shall risk it. Maybe I should put a disclaimer .........?

 

Basically the land registry hold an electronic register, it details the property, the owner, any legal charge (mortgage/loan) secured amongst a host of other things, ie rights of way, covenants effecting the property etc if these are applicable. The " register of title" as they call it can also refer to the previous deed documents. Every property is different so i wont go into the list of other things it can refer to, but these are the most common ones. They will only hold a record of these details however if the property has been registered with them. In the 1980/1990's different areas gradually became subject to compulsory registration, whereby any dealing with the property, ie sale purchase transfer remortgage mortgage would trigger for the prooperty to be registered at the Land Registry. This was when the record was created with them. There are obviously some properties which are still unregistered and would remain so until there was a dealing with the property which would now trigger registration or until the owner applied for first registration. Some people have opted to do a voluntary first registration whereby they submit the deeds to land regsitry so there is a record of their ownership.

 

Obviously if the deeds were lost and the property was unregistered you get into a situation whereby you have to provide declarations as to the deeds and your claim of ownership, and you may even get into an adverse possesion situation. This can be complicated so I wont go into detail.

 

I hope i have answered your question............in brief yes there would be a record at land registry (if your property has been regsiterd) and if you lost the deeds this record would still be there.

[ClaireCardwell]

Lea do you have nothing better to do? Thought this site was here to try and help people?

[Lea_HTH]

Am not sure I dare reply in case am interrogated some more..............however shall risk it. Maybe I should put a disclaimer .........?.

 

The only disclaimer you should put is 'I am not a lawyer'.

[Lea_HTH]

Lea do you have nothing better to do? Thought this site was here to try and help people?

 

It is. Which is why it's important to not mislead people - which is what you did by claiming to be a lawyer.

[ClaireCardwell]

DISCLAIMER "I AM NOT A LAWYER I AM A CONVEYANCER"

 

Ha ha in future i will, maybe you should put "I am not here to help, I am here to interrogate"

[ClaireCardwell]

My job title on my Contract at work is "property lawyer", as it is on my business cards - as explained above not everybody knows what a conveyancer is. It was not a deliberate attempt to mislead the person who had asked the question.

[Lea_HTH]

DISCLAIMER "I AM NOT A LAWYER I AM A CONVEYANCER"

 

Ha ha in future i will, maybe you should put "I am not here to help, I am here to interrogate"

 

I only interrogate people when they state something that is quite clearly untrue.

 

The help I give to people on this forum (and others) speaks for itself.