Taking action against Trade Union

[notinunison]

Weve all been mislead or conned by the unions theyre have not regard for their members their rules or the laws they claim to uphold and they seem to be unaccountable its about time things changed and that petition is made to make sure unions are held to account and made to provide services that members pay for

[notinunison]

And not only are the unions rupping off members they are also ripping of taxpayers who fund represntatives permanant jobs and most importanlty are letting down the people and services that we trained and qualifed to serve and protect.

 

Otherwise there will be more cases of cleint abuse and Baby Peters.....

[notinunison]

The politicians media and banks have been made to account for their unlawful actions mis'selling and its about time the unions were made to account and pay for their unlawful and what appears to be criminal actions.

[Browncow]

The politicians media and banks have been made to account for their unlawful actions mis'selling and its about time the unions were made to account and pay for their unlawful and what appears to be criminal actions.

 

I agree and so do a lot of other people. The 2 big U unions are just a front for a money making racket and nothing more. Time for the members to take over and kick these parasites out.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi ianheadland,

 

you seem to have been forgotten in all of this. I assume you came on for some advice and not to read a continuous rant.

 

Concentrate on getting your own ET accepted my friend. You can address your issues with your local branch at a later date.

[Trade union why]

It is unfortunate that unions are taking our money to traumatize us. My union, GMB rep followed me to a grievance meeting, he was pleading with my employer to make things right. He did not advise me that my employer should send me the outcome of the grievance. I later decided to make a claim against my emplyer, I was told that they have not done anything wrong by my union rep but I should send all my documents. I sent all my documents and did not hear from them, I called the rep he said he had not hear from the solicitor that I had to wait and I had 2 days less than 3 months to submit my claim to the tribunal. I decided to fill the claim form by myself. They sent me the solicitor response almost 2 months after my submission and was advised not to follow the claim.

 

CAB advised me that I should change the claim because my employer might sue me for the claim I made. We went for case discussion meeting, fortunately the judge accepted my original claim.

 

Trade Unions are as bad as some terrible employers.

[lulilu]

The experience of many union members is that their trade union is WORSE than the employers. People who complain about their union should name it. I'm a member of Unite. There are massive numbers of complaints from members about the benefits and services they receive from their unions. The problem starts because trade unions and certainly the big ones support the Labour Party and the union hierarchy does not want to upset the cosy dealings with politicians and the so-called partnership deals with employers. The union bureaucrats are able to impose their will because unions are a sort of private club governed by the membership through the rule book that all members must abide by.

All union rule books say something like, "the union MAY provide help and support". This one single word allows the ruling bureaucracy to please themselves when it comes to giving support to members. So the starting point is to look at the rule book, but take my word for it that word or similar will be there.

I don't think, but I'm not sure, the union need not give any reasons for their refusal to help members. If you feel really badly done to then start proceedings in the employment tribunal for unjustifiable discipline BUT you will need to ensure that what you complain about is included in the list of PRESCRIBED actions in s64 and s65 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations Consolidation Act 1992 – the best thing is to always see an independent solicitor specialising in employment law. People say, so why join a union. Increasingly the answer seems to be to ensure union bosses have a big fat salary and pension and that the Labour Party is properly funded.

[Emmzzi]

I think it is really important when choosing a union to find out if they are a campaigning union or a representative union, and go with one that matches your own needs.

[papasmurf1cx]

I advise people that it is best if they have a good Legal Expenses Insurance Policy. That is worth 1000 x more than being in a union. One day the penny will drop with the membership that union power is reliant on the members trusting that what they are offered for becoming members is actually delivered.

[jackieandwayne]

I'm awaiting the outcome of my complaint to Unison. I submitted it 2 january 2012, and its just got to Stage 3 at the London Offices. My rep outright mislead me by telling me that he had submitted my PI claim to Thomsons in 2009, (I have all the evidence) and for the next 3 years continued to tell me this. throughout this I was in the grip of PTSD and panic disorder, and I lost my father, who had been my main supporter. For the first 18 months I was not functioning correctly mentally, and swallowed everything he told me, but then I started to pick up a bit, and ask questions. Even after I was almost out of time, he continued to mislead me by saying I still had a case in his opinion. Anyway, we'll just see what the final outcome of my complaint is to this self serving lot, and once I have that I'm happy to publish it on here, and look to see what can be done next. Because we all know they'll find in their own favour don;t we?

 

I've been told I'll have an answer by 30-8-2012 (should add 17 weeks onto that, that's how long it took them to do my first complaint!) so I'll let you know how i get on.

Edited August 18, 2012 by jackieandwayne
remove lies/lying for "mislead"

[lulilu]

This is absolutely typical of how unions respond to complaints or enquires from members. After long and bitter struggles with Unite, my union, my conclusion is that I should treat the union bureaucracy in exactly the same way that I treat the banks and financiers. I talk to union members who complain about the appalling treatment they receive from their union; if people had just moaned about banks we would still be paying unlawful charges and repayments. But bank customers started fighting back. In the same way ordinary union members must treat their union exactly the way we fight the banks.

Like in our dealings with the banks, never, ever discuss things on the phone unless you can record the conversation. Like the banks the union bureaucrats will lie to you, they will forget or dispute any conversion. Like the banks, treat the union bureaucrats as though they were a pack of lying thieves and keep records of ALL dealings with the union. Again like in our dealings with the banks our experiences of fighting the unions should be publicised and the union should be named along with the region of the union. So tell people.

Has anybody had any dealings with Thompsons solicitors. Thompsons are the solicitors of choice for the unions.

[jackieandwayne]

Thompsons were the solicitors that I was never going to meet! Because I thought at first it was their delay (going by what my rep told me) I wrote to them and told them I was going to report them to whoever. They wrote back and confirmed the date they had my file! Not 2009 as i was told, but 2011.

[lulilu]

This typical also. What unions seem to do is delay and delay and delay.They always have agood reason for the delay but usually things are left too late for employment tribunal proceedings. Then, just like in the case of dealing with banks and their solicitors, ordinary union members are left to fight a massive well financed and powerful bureaucracy. This is why ordinary unionmembers have to get organised and publicise their dealings with the people whose salaries we pay.

 

And its a good salary too. In Unite I think the starting pay of a full time official is about £1000 a week. Compare that with ordinary members who are on the minimum wage or benefit level income. Can people remember the case in the papers recently about the the Labour MP Tom Watson of Leveson fame who was so stressed out he went with Len McCluskey, Unite General Secretary, to Claridges in London to "decompress" on pink champagne. I wonder how much that cost, Guess not too many of Len McCluskey's members could afford to decompress in such away.

[Hansoff]

Shocking - but what I was beginning to think. Then Thompson's was mentioned. Guess who prepared my ET1, put it in on the last day and then arranged a meeting with counsel who decided I did not have a sufficiently good case (ie >50% chance of winning) and recommended the union withdraw funding from my case.

 

They have. Now I have no funding and the employer has been given the message that my 'own' supporters don't think I can win.

 

However, they did prepare a bundle and the ET1 was in time 'to protect my interests' as the union's own legal people thought my case had 'merit'. Not completely lost.

 

However, the union were nowhere when I was dismissed - my rep was doing his bit for the appeal.

 

I am considering a witness order against one of the higher up Union officials who made all sorts of statements about my ex-employer at a series of pay and conditions negotiations. They don't want this. Should I ask for an order?

 

What a mess.

[lulilu]

What a mess indeed. What is your union by the way.

Be careful with witness orders; if you are successful in getting such an order and this is not guaranteed just because you ask for one – remember you have to prove a case for one and solicitors for the other side will argue black is white against one. Just believe me they will fight you just as hard and determined as any solicitors acting for a bank. If its a union official then you be up against Thompsons – just believe me when I say they can teach a lot of bankers-solicitors a thing or two. I remember a case I was involved in and the judge said, "anyone who has ever had any dealings with Thompsons know the sort of things they get up to". If there is a TINY chink in your case they will find and exploit it.

Suppose you were successful and got a witness order and you asked this witness, at court or tribunal, a question like," did you say this or do that". The chances are that they will say "no" or more likely, "I can't remember that"; just think back at the Leveson witnesses or at the Bob Diamond treasury select committee. YOU as the claimant will have to prove that they did say this or do that. If you can't then you lose and you could end up with a very large costs order to pay.

A better tack would be to merely assert what you allege. Then at court or tribunal the other side may have to produce the witness to contradict you. If its your word against the other side then you may have the advantage if the witness is not produced. Either way it may or boil down to proof. The best proof is documentary. Do you have proof - of ANY kind that will stand up in court. This proof must be your starting point of how to proceed.

[jackieandwayne]

Well, true to nature Unison have e-mailed to say that they are very short staffed and would I mind very much waiting until 7/9/2012 for this final investigation to be completed! I've told them this will have to ok - so I should be able to post up the whole story shortly after that date when I get the final outcome.

 

I've been reading up all the links on here, and I am seriously considering consulting a no win no fee lawyer about this. But patience first, lets see what they come up with.

[lulilu]

Sounds good to me. Have you seen the website of Certification officer, if not, follow the link to "latest Decisions". If you have not seen this website you will see exactly how the unions argue their case and the, sometimes, formidable hoops that an unqualified person needs to jump through to win. But win they do – from what I can see our failure is usually a result of not being properly prepared in law.

 

Another very good place to go to is the website "Bailii" and follow the links till you get to the Employment Appeals Tribunal (EAT) – this is littered with cases involving the unions. One of the latest cases involves Unison who were taken to an Employment Tribunal for unjustifiable discipline. This forum will not allow me to give a direct link to the case but the case is UNISON v Kelly & Ors 2012. You canalso do a search, on Bailii, for Unison. You will see that in an overwhelming majority of cases it is Thompsons who represent Unison and most unions.

[jackieandwayne]

Anothjer e-mail from Unison, yet another delay, and I have to await a further e-mail to be told the new date by which my complaint will have been heard at Stage 3. Ian and other victims - how are you progressing?

 

Whilst all this is going on, I've googled to see if I can find other cases of actual members taking a Union to Court, and all I can some up with is Mr Jervis v Unison. Any pointers?

[lulilu]

Unison is giving you the run around.

 

This the link to the website of bailii

 

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/

You will then automatically go to the home page:

United Kingdom Employment Appeal Tribunal

Search this section

Top of Form

 

Find all of these wordsany of these wordsthis phrasethis document titlethis Boolean query

Do what I have done and you will find all the cases that have gone to the employment appeals tribunals (EAT). Remember it is only the appeals that are made public on the website. The actual employment tribunal cases are not put on the tribunals website.

Don't forget to go to the website of the Certification Officer, CO.

Also, look at all the cases to the CO involving all unions and the EAT involving unions otherthan Unison.

To help preventany further run around have you thought about sending Unison a subjec access request. Use the exact format thatare recommended in these forums. Send the request to Dave Prentis, UnisonCentre, Euston Road, London. Enclose a £10 postal order plus membership ship number plus a copy of a recent utilities bill or whatever to show your address plus mention thatyou have an on going relationship with your regional secretary or other named official.

Good luck