Lewis/Cohen claimform - merged GE money debts 3rd time.. **WON DISCd**

[monyl]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to this site so please excuse me.

If I'm not in the right place, can someone direct me to where I need to go.

 

:violin:Back to my problem with Howard Cohen/CL Finance/Lewis Group/GE Money.

 

I unfortunately was unwell back in 2007 and subsequently lost my job in 2008 due to other factors such as my son also becoming unwell and my mum becoming terminal and passing away.

 

However, loss of income = multiple debt collectors on my back.

I had a couple of storecards with GE Money and a HBOS loan, all had PPI insurance.

 

To cut a long story short,

I have been taken to court twice by Howard Cohen and managed to win my cases (representing myself) because I could prove that I had PPI insurance and had been in dispute with the companies and they had no right to bring the case to court without my acknowledgement or looking into the dispute.

I managed to get my costs (£5 travel) awarded against them for one of the cases also.

I have never disputed the loan (around £6K) with them and made arrangements to pay £40 monthly.

 

As you are aware, with the economic climate with petrol prices, the rising cost of shopping and the cost of having to buy equipment for college (studying part time as a beauty therapist and nail technician), I got into problems with a beauty supplier for a nail kit (£66) which unfortunately was no good and it ended up with trading standards who had advised that I have to take them to court under the Sale of Goods Act.

 

I cannot afford this so it is money down the drain and had to rebuy my kit.

I forgot to make a payment and got a nasty letter from them to resume payment.

 

I contacted them and told them what had happened and they wanted a new income and expenditure.

I explained that I could only now afford £25 instead of £40 (also I am still trying to get my mum's headstone erected as it is now 3 years since she passed and trying to negotiate monthly payments with the stonemasons for a £3k bill which is the minimum headstone/kerbset that the cemetery will allow).

 

I paid the first £25 and received a 'notice of legal action' letter.

The letter threatens legal action...mentions information about CPR 4.....and that I should reply within the stated deadlines.

But there are no deadlines in the letter.

 

I telephoned again and found that they were not happy with the reduced payment.

I asked them what the deadlines were in the letter and I was told, it was as soon as I got it, there were no particular deadlines.

 

One lady in particular was livid when i told her i was paying £70 for my Virgin account but it has arrears attached and she wanted to see the bill.

Another one wanted to know why I could not take sandwiches to college instead of buying my lunch at the cafe!

They were upset that they found £40 left at the end of the month and said that it was too much for me to have left over

(they had not taken clothes, my sons clothes into account).

 

I spoke to four people that day, in the end, the last gentlement accepted my offer of £25 and I made the payment and continued to do so.

I then received another 'notice of legal action' with NO deadlines.

 

I was in the end of my term assessment and exams and did not respond but kept payment and hey presto, I now have a court money claim that I had defaulted on the agreement (which I have not).

 

I have returned the service of acknowledgement defending the whole amount so I wanted some advice please for my defence.

I am also quoting that they do searches on Land Registry to see if you own your property and then add this charge to your account.

 

1. I need some clarification on the 'Ozannes Attorney' area where I have noticed in my past cases, they are listed as representing GE Money and CL Finance and was concerned about them signing for both parties.

 

2.. Is it better to go to Small Claims or Fast Track?

 

3.. Am I allowed to be able to purchase my mum's headstone (under Human Rights Act Article 6) even though I have a debt?

 

4. Is there anyway I can avoid the CCJ even if the Judge sets the repayments as I do not want them to be able to register a CCJ as this will defeat my future employment prospects if I wish to go self employed as I am due to be transitioned from Incapacity Benefit soon.

 

5. I received a default notice from Lewis Group back in 2009, do i request it again along with the notice of assignment and credit agreement

 

6. Can I make a counterclaim for harassment as this will be the third time they have dragged me to court?

 

Sorry this is so long

Edited July 25, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[Undercover-Elsa]

hi Monyl,

Welcome to CAG

Sorry you've had to wait so long for a response.

 

It is all rather confusing, so let's clarify a few things first-

1.Who is the actual claimant?

2.Was this a loan under the Consumer Credit Act to finance the purchase of your kit?

3.Above or below £5000? (The track is allocated at a later stage, usually small claims under £5K or if it's straightforward.

4.What exactly do the particulars of claim state?

 

Enough for starters

 

Elsa x

[postggj]

why has this been to court twice before

 

for each court claim who was the claimant

[monyl]

Firstly, may I say thanks to Phatram for replying earlier.

 

May I first reply to Postggi and confirm that CL Finance Ltd have been the Claimants in all the claims but the previous two claims were for two separate claims for separate store cards.

 

Undercover-Elsa - to answer your points:

1. The actual claimant is CL Finance.

2. No, the loan was just a unsecured loan. Forgive my ramblings, I am just so stressed at the moment. The kit is not part of the court claim but was trying to explain that I have to buy equipment for my college course and wanted to know if it needed to be taken as part of my defence.

3. The particulars of the claim state 'The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £6701.12 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement made in writing under reference XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Claimant claims the sum of £6701.12.'

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[postggj]

PLEASE CONFIRM

 

YOU MENTION TWO CLAIMS BEFORE

 

THIS NEW CLAIM

 

IS IT REF ONE OF THE PREVIOUS CLAIMS

 

38.7

 

A claimant who discontinues a claim needs the permission of the court to make another claim against the same defendant if –

(a) he discontinued the claim after the defendant filed a defence; and

 

(b) the other claim arises out of facts which are the same or substantially the same as those relating to the discontinued claim.

 

 

IS ANY OF THE ABOVE RELEVANT TO THIS NEW CLAIM

[monyl]

I managed to get the previous two cases struck out before.

 

They were not linked in any way, they just filed the claims as they bought the debts from GE Capital without me knowing and refused to acknowledge that I had PPI disputes with the two debts. They were not 'discontinued' from their side, meaning did they abandon the cases, if I understand that correctly.

[postggj]

So we have just one unsecured loan that has not been to court before

[Undercover-Elsa]

Thanks for clarifying for us Monyl

You've obviously been through the mill, but try not to stress, we'll help you as much as we can.

 

One thing I need to say to you and I'm sure postgg will second this...please please STOP RINGING THESE PEOPLE!!!

 

They've clearly misled, bullied and wound you up on the phone, and have treated you apallingly.

Unfortunately unless you recorded the calls it can't be proved.

 

Any dealings with any debt collectors/banks should always be in writing.

Insist upon it if they ever ring, refuse to go through security questions, tell them everything in writing and then hang up.

(Have a read of my blog linked below for help dealing with them).

 

Anyway, back to the current problem...

Sorry for more questions but we need to get the full picture.

 

What's the date on the claim form? (I understand you've already acknowledged your intention to fully defend?)

 

So its circa £6K, was it taken out before 2007?

 

So CL Finance are the claimants - but Lewis are the original owners of the debt, but they haven't mentioned an assignment in the POC.

 

Did you ever receive a notice of assignment, and was it by recorded delivery?

 

Any chance you can find the original Default Notice that they say was issued?

(This is important-you will be asking for it again but either they won't have a copy or they'll doctor it to make it accurate)

 

Next step will be a 31.14 request for the documents mentioned in the POC and a part 18 request for info re assigment, hang on till we get your replies and see what postgg has to say.

 

Re your query about how to avoid the CCJ..various scenarios for this:

They fall down on producing docs/timescales and claim could get struck out or they could discontinue.

 

You could apply for mediation when it gets to Allocation Questionairre Time and come to an agreement via a Tomlin Order

Time Order?

If you won your case

If they won and you paid it off within 30 days a CCJ wouldn't be registered

 

Elsa x

PS: Any PPI on the loan?

Edited July 25, 2018 by dx100uk
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[postggj]

Cl finance and lewis are one and the same

 

a cattles company

 

 

so thats interesting for a start

[Undercover-Elsa]

Aaaah didn't realise that! Interesting.

[monyl]

Hi Elsa,

 

I understand what you say about not ringing debt collectors but when you are vulnerable to your rights, it is difficult not to be intimated by them because of the threat of court. However, I will answer your questions in turn.

 

1. Date on claim form is 4 July 2011.

 

2. Date of loan 28 July 2005 for £7k

 

3. No assignment mentioned in the POC but in 2008 when they bought the debts and their court actions starting kicking off, I sent £10 to get all documents under Data Protection Act for the three debts.

 

 

The Lewis Group sent a document that I assumed was one as it is headed Notice of Assignment and dated 25 September 2008.

It states the ‘….Assignment is dated 31 December 2007 between GE Capital Bank and CL Finance assigned to CL Finance absolutely a debt in the total of £7050.65 due by me….’

 

 

I assume they packaged up all three debts ready to go as the first took to me court in February 2008 and September 2008 respectively.

I received letters from Robinson Way & Company chasing the debt on 21 August, 3 November and 28 December 2008.

Then received a final demand from Lewis on 16 March 2009. (p.s. I had managed to get legal advice from Community Legal Advice and they advised me to get the information from both GE Capital and CL Finance in relation to all the debts they held in my name).

 

4. The Notice was not sent by recorded delivery but came under my Data Protection SAR request back in 2008, do they need to produce a new one.

I did not receive the ‘actual assignment’ only the Notice of Assignment.

Does this mean that they may win based on this 'document' being sent.

 

 

In one of the cases, they had produced a photocopy of the signatures with Ozanne acting for both companies (GE Capital and CL Finance) is this not conflict of interest?

 

5. I have been to mediation with them before with one of the cases and mediation did not mention a Tomlinson or Time Order and we failed to negotiate as they were still ignoring my PPI dispute with the company.

 

 

Unfortunately I had already addressed the PPI issue on this case,

I had cancelled it and the redress had been deducted from the balance before I agreed to pay the £40 just to get them off my back and avoid having to go to court as it was too stressful.

 

 

With hindsight I had too many things going on at home to argue and unfortunately let the paper confirmation letter slip.

The only evidence I have this time, is that I have the names of the people I spoke to prior to this last incident.

 

What is a Tomlin Order/Time Order? If they win, does this avoid Judgement being registered against me so it is does not affect my future employment prospects.

 

Postggj mentions ‘Lewis and CL Finance being a ‘Cattles Company’?

What is this also?

Regards,

monyl

Edited July 25, 2018 by dx100uk
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[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Monyl,

 

Postgg will be able to tell you more about Cattles.

I'm just about to go out for dinner, I'll answer you more fully in the morning.

 

Are you able to come on here in the day tomorrow..

we need to sort you out with the 31.14 request to send off asap.

Also, any luck digging out the original default notice, as if it's not accurate (and many aren't) it can help your case a lot?

 

A Tomlin Order is an agreement drawn up prior to proceeding to a hearing/CCJ, agreeing to a payment plan which, if you don't keep up with it, allows them to continue with the case.

 

Let's see if they're up to speed on the docs/court protocols first.

I'd love to trip them up and get them to discontinue.

 

For Time Orders, there used to be a good guide on here but it's offline at the moment.

Try googling it or searching on the National Debtline website.

Also, see what postgg has to say,

take care,

Elsa x

[monyl]

Hi Elsa

 

I replied to you via my Blackberry yesterday to explain that I would be at a funeral today and would not be available.

It does not appear to have registered on the site, did you get it?

 

I was confirming that I would be available from tomorrow to put the details together, also that I do not remember receiving a default notice.

 

Even when they sent me documents back in 2008, they only sent credit agreements, and notes from the computer.

The court ordered them to send the default notice prior to the hearing as I have shown evidence that I had sent a SAR request for information.

[monyl]

Hi Postggj, can you please explain what a 'cattles company' is? Thanks

[consumeredge]

A Tomlin Order is a schedule or document attached to a Consent Order, the Consent Order may make referrence to its existance, however, the court has no power to enforce it, it is used for things like confidentiality clauses and the like, it is named after the DJ who first suggested it and dates back to the 1920's

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Monyl,

Ahhh I wondered where you'd gone - didn't receive any message but no probs

Bit busy today as OH is day off, but you do need to send off a CPR 31.14 request for the docs mentioned in the POC.

 

Here's one amended for you from the sx20 thread:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 The Agreement. A copy of the signed, executed Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the signed originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract , both at inception and as amended, should also be attached.

 

2 The Notice of Assignment included proof of delivery and method.

 

3 The Default Notice - a true copy of the Default Notice, and /or a copy of the relevant communications log showing issuance, plus proof and method of posting.

 

4 A full statement of account showing how the amount claimed is calculated

 

 

Please ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter, in compliance with CPR 31.15(b).

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

------------------------------------------

 

This needs to be sent by Recorded Delivery to the named Solicitors, asap.

 

I've deliberately not mentioned the assignment as it's not mentioned in POC. Part 18 request anyone?

 

Got to dash,

 

Elsa x

[postggj]

cag has no room for spammers

 

frack off claims helpline:evil:

[postggj]

cattles was/is (not for much longer) a company that traded on thestock exchange as a top 250 company

they owned

 

welcome finance

shop a cheque

cl finance

lewis debt colections

 

they were specialist in lending to people with less than perfect credit (sub prime lender)

 

they paid the price on screewing the customer with high interest rates, mass charging and down right dishonsty, not to mention the unlawful dealings at board room level

 

in the end they could not pay there debts and were slung out of the stock exchange and are now just about extinct

 

 

Name & Registered Office:

CATTLES LIMITED

KINGSTON HOUSE CENTRE 27

BUSINESS PARK

WOODHEAD ROAD BIRSTALL

BATLEY WEST YORKSHIRE

WF17 9TD

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/related-38196-cattles-plc.do

[monyl]

Hi Elsa

 

Well it looks like the gremlins have decided to take up residence in my Blackberry to stress me out further but I shall try to ignore them.

I have been checking my phone constantly for an update from you today and nothing arrived.

All I got was the notification from 'consumeredge' and it is still not allowing me to reply on it.

I just decided to come on my wide screen (laptop) to find your reply sitting here from this morning

 

thanks for this, you are a star, I will be at the Post Office first thing in the morning.

Will let you know as soon as its gone.

(Have to get my phone sorted out too).

 

Read National Debtline website re Tomlin Order but it appears that the Judgement may still be registered which is what I am trying to avoid.

According to 'Consumeredge' the court has no power to enforce it but if they could and not record the Judgement, it would be something to negotiate.

 

Thank you so much.

[monyl]

Hi Postggj, this makes very interesting reading...is it also normal practice for Howard Cohen and CL Finance staff to work together, for example, CL Finance staff answers telephone calls on behalf of Howard Cohen?

[monyl]

Hi, Just confirming letter sent this afternoon by recorded delivery, going to see if I can find anything else that they may have sent in 2008 relating to this claim

[Undercover-Elsa]

Excellent. Well done Monyl. Its that Default Notice you need to find - if it exists.

[havinastella]

You REALLY REALLY need to keep an eye on the time frame here.

 

Did you contest ALL?

 

Have you sent CPR?

 

Have you submitted a defense and do you know what it will be and when it has to be in?

 

Jogs

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Havastinella,

Yeah, time is a little short.

Claim issued 4th July, Monyl acknowledged defending fully, I make that a 6th August deadline?

 

31.14 just gone off, incorporating a request for extension, so if she hears nothing by next week that will have to be chased up and confirmation of extension requested in writing, to copy in to court and prevent a default judgement (or an N244 if they refuse).

 

No defence until we see what they come up with

- thinking in terms of a N244 request for compliance / unless order for strike out as it seems doubtful they'll have the docs.

 

Elsa x

[monyl]

Checked Royal Mail Track and Trace this morning, confirmed letter delivered and signed for this morning, have printed off signature and name of person who signed for it. Have to complete some work for college to hand in tomorrow then going into the depths of old docs to see what I can find.

 

monyl