Help! Husband's 18year old mortgage debt landed on our doorstep today. I'm terrified.

[paulwlton]

Has a request for all data been made?

[unclebulgaria67]

I agree with Brig. Think you should reject the FOS decision and then wait to seen what Halifax/Shoosmiths want to do next. If they cannot prove your OH made the payments and have not provided any information to assist with making requests for banks for data, then I would think on balance of probability a judge may come to a different judgement. From what I remember Halifax were not able to advise you how the payments were made. e.g no account numbers, card numbers. If this is the case how is your OH going to investigate this.

[perplexedofdorset]

yes... a full data request was made but nothing new turned up

[perplexedofdorset]

If this is the case how is your OH going to investigate this

 

????? Does he need to???

 

My OH can barely remember (or want to remember) his life then.

In the end he was made redundant and had a nervous breakdown

I very much doubt he can give details of bank accounts etc from that time..

[unclebulgaria67]

If this is the case how is your OH going to investigate this

 

????? Does he need to???

 

My OH can barely remember (or want to remember) his life then.

In the end he was made redundant and had a nervous breakdown

I very much doubt he can give details of bank accounts etc from that time..

 

No. It is always up to a claimant to prove their case 'on the balance of probability'. So if he makes a statement to the affect that he was not residing at the address where the debt collectors were writing to and was not in contact with his ex-wife living at the address at the time, then it would seem to suggest payment was made by a third party.

 

I think as you realise, this may all be tested in court at some point. Hence the previous advice to see a Solicitor and consider making a small full & final offer to Halifax, if they agree that this might be best. The bit I am more concerned about, is the email and letter I think which made an offer of £1k in 2004, if I remembering correctly. A Judge may accept no proof of payment by your OH, but then also take into account email and offer letter. The letter offering the payment may have been unsigned, but who else would have made this offer, if it were not your OH.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

If any such offer was made in 2004 it can now be discounted if it was construed to be an ''unequivocal admission of liability as further period of 6 years has elapsed.

[unclebulgaria67]

If any such offer was made in 2004 it can now be discounted if it was construed to be an ''unequivocal admission of liability as further period of 6 years has elapsed.

 

Are written admissions for mortgage debts only applicable for 6 years ? I thought it was 12 years ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

See Council of Mortgage Lenders statement on shortfalls.

[Ell-enn]

Are written admissions for mortgage debts only applicable for 6 years ? I thought it was 12 years ?

 

It depends on when the mortgage was taken out - if it was before 2000 then it's 12 years. It's not just written admissions that make the debt collectable but if the lender can prove they have contacted the debtor within the 6 years.

Lenders who are members of the Council of Mortgage Lenders voluntarily agreed from 11 February 2000 to begin all recovery action for a shortfall within six years of the sale of a repossessed property. If your property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and you have not been contacted by your lender to recover any outstanding debt, you will not now be asked to pay the shortfall. In Scotland, lenders will begin recovery action within five years.Does this time limit apply to every case?

 

The new time limit will not affect you if -

• you are already adhering to alternative payment arrangements for the shortfall debt;
  
• or, you have already been contacted by your lender, even if the initial contact was made by the lender after six years from the date of the sale of the property in possession.
  

The six year limit only refers to beginning recovery action and does not affect a lender's ability to recover the shortfall debt over a longer period. If there is evidence of mortgage fraud, the time limit will not apply.

 

After a repossessed property is sold, lenders can often find it difficult to contact former borrowers to advise them of any surplus monies or shortfall debt. If this is the case, your lender will use a variety of measures to identify where you are now living. This might include using tracing agents. If your lender or its third party agent are trying to contact you (for example, by letter or telephone) to discuss repayment of the shortfall, but you choose to ignore such contact (despite the fact that the contact is being made at your new address) then your lender will consider that contact has been made within the six year limit. If you are unclear whether contact has been made within the six year period, your lender will be able to tell you.

[unclebulgaria67]

It was a pre 2000 mortgage and they were contacted within 6 years of the shortfall.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This matter now runs for over 40 pages and virtually all that is coming up has been repeated many times, in my considered opinion having taken the time to read from post one to the present this will have to go before a court sooner rather than later as it is now in deadlock, perplexed and her OH will need to seek properly qualified advice.

[perplexedofdorset]

Thank you everyone,

I can see both Uncle B's and the Brigs points, which is sad but dont want you to argue ...

 

We now have to return the card thingy to the FOS, should we include a letter saying we do no agree with the balance of probability?

or just return the card?

 

I think we are up the proverbial creek without any means of propulsion and now it will be a case of damage limitation.

[sillygirl1]

No, you are not up the creek without a paddle, they are - which is why they are putting the pressure on you.

 

You have case law, the Code of Mortgage Conduct and the fact that your husband can get the medical records for the period they claim they were in contact with him - that should make them think again.

 

I think the original mistake was writing back to them, had they been ignored they would have gone onto easier meat.

 

Don't forget you can get a 'pro bono' trainee solicitor onto the case for free - Brighton University does this scheme as my friend's daughter is going on it next year, in her final year of Law.

 

Reeturn the card with a letter stating 'on the balance of probability you can prove otherwise' and that you still have very little chance of repaying anything, point out to the FOS that not long afterwards your husband had a breakdown, medical evidence can prove this, and that the company have not talked to him, point out the Code of Mortgage Lending goes against their 'findings' and that you feel all facts have not been taken into account.

[unclebulgaria67]

Just return the card to the FOS to reject their decision.

 

Then wait to see what correspondence you get next. See if you can get some free legal advice. Many Solicitors volunteer time at Citizens Advice or there are Probono lawyers around who might help.

[perplexedofdorset]

The card requires a signature, I'm very wary of this, could he just print his name?

[unclebulgaria67]

The card requires a signature, I'm very wary of this, could he just print his name?

 

Not a problem, unless he is actually Lord Lucan and this would lead to him being found. It is only a signature to the FOS.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just print a grid like this

and sign over the g top.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[perplexedofdorset]

thank you Uncle B and Brig,

 

My OH asks whether the H contacting us a month or so ago, whilst this was still under review, gives us any ammunition ... breach of FOS rules etc?

 

Meanwhile I will return card in post tomorrow and try and enjoy the BH weekend (thanks B.x)

[perplexedofdorset]

Brig, Youre inbox is fulll and I need to pm you.....

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi Brig,

 

I'm going to send the card back today (we have 'til the 13th May to return it; yes... I've been downhearted and procrastinated)

 

I got my OH to sign it; well print Mr XXX (as the place they wanted him to sign Mr XXX)

 

I also wrote a note on the bottom noting that they didn't enclose an SAE as they said they did

 

but then my OH, (after scrubbing out the I agree with the FOS decision, Obviously we ticked the 'I disagree' box) wrote after the bit where it said 'The ruling in respect of the complaint between Mr XXX and the Bank of Scotland'.....I have never had any dealings with the Bank of Scotland..Who are they?

{As you may recall the mortgage was with the Halifax)

 

Will this bugger anything up?

Should I send recorded or just get proof of postage?

What would happen if we just didn't return the card???

 

I really need to know before 1 ish please so I can catch today's post...

 

Thank you

 

BTW, we had a lovely weekend

[unclebulgaria67]

What did the FOS say about returning the card. I suspect that not returning, just means that you have not given them a view about whether you agree or disagree with their decision.

 

I would send back as a disagree and get proof of posting.

 

Give it a few months and I expect Shoosmiths will be back in contact. At that point, you will have to decide what to do. Fight on with possible court or try to come to agreement on a settlement. Hence previous advice to get a legal opinion as to whether on balance of probability your OH has any chance in court. Only you would know whether your OH is likely to want to or be able to defend any court action.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

In BOX clear.

[perplexedofdorset]

In BOX clear.

 

Huh?? Sorry Im being a dimwit .... oh I get it!! DoH!