Help! Husband's 18year old mortgage debt landed on our doorstep today. I'm terrified.

[sillygirl1]

Its either letter tennis or communication ping-pong (usually done via email)... a couple of the many phrases coined to use against the debt collecting 'industry'.

 

The banks are becoming more aggressive at trying to collect 'distressed delinquent debt' and hopefully they will come a cropper as clearly some of their older systems were not robust and their archiving practices worse.

[perplexedofdorset]

It is important that whatever letter you send, does not go against the timeline.

 

I don't understand what you mean by this Uncle B...

 

 

If DLC have written to a correct address within the 6 years and they have file notes stating payments plus contact from that address, who would the payments plus contact be from, apart from your OH ? Was he living alone at the address they had written to ?

 

The address was the correct address for the marital home, wife and three children (only one his), at the time......

 

I agree completely with your point made in red in the previous post, and it is our point entirely.

If she was on the receiving end of debt collectors and wanted to stay in her present home without hassle she may have made the payments.

 

The person they were communicating with could have been his wife, her brother, the milkman or her lover....or even her sister, who caused my OH to default on the mortgage in the first place by not paying the rent on the flat.

(To understand the type of family she comes from, close your eyes and think Jeremy Kyle!!!)

 

So does the letter which you drafted, the nice forceful one, 'go against the timeline' or can i send it because I really like it...( I think I'm far too nice for this sort of work )

[perplexedofdorset]

P.S

Should I send DLC's covering letter along with the print out of the screen shot..

.or all the info included; which both the FOS, the Halifax and we have???

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes the letter is ok to send.

 

My query about the timeline is this.

 

IF there was a system note on say 01/05/97, saying contact made with Mr X at 10 The High street and payment made. You cannot then say that no payment or contact was made. Yes there may be no proof in terms of a copy letter or payment details, but the FOS could still view the system note as reasonable evidence of contact. From what you state, the system or file notes are not very clear, so the FOS should not see these as evidence. If that is the case, then no problem.

[unclebulgaria67]

P.S

Should I send DLC's covering letter along with the print out of the screen shot..

.or all the info included; which both the FOS, the Halifax and we have???

 

Yes send the FOS a copy of what you have received from DLC.

[perplexedofdorset]

Thank, as ever, Uncle B

 

We are not disputing the debt, or that the H and DLC seem to have had contact with someone and payments were made...

What we are asking for is proof that those contacts / payments were from my OH.

After all this is England isn't it? innocent until proven guilty???

...now just to get the b**** printer to work for a living!

[perplexedofdorset]

just added this sentence to the first paragraph of the letter..to avoid having to copy reams of paper that they, and we, already have.

 

As you can see the only additional piece of information they have sent, was a screen shot of basic details of Mr *** address at that time, which I enclose here. Their other enclosures were the list of alleged payments and system notes which both you, the Halifax and we are already in receipt of. No proof of any communication to this address and of having made contact with Mr Heyting has been provided..

Edited June 8, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[unclebulgaria67]

Innocent until proven guilty or random justice. Personally I think it is the latter.

 

Although debt is a civil matter and therefore it is on the balance of probability, I think justice would depend on judge lottery or in the current position, 'ombudsman lottery'.

 

Going off topic, I have read that judges are having to cancel criminal court cases, as the court service has run out of many. Apparently up and down the country, court cases are now being postponed to a time when the Ministry of Justice provides more budget. If there are people currently on bail or people in prison on remand, this will be the next scandal to hit this government. It will only take someone with a postponed court claim to commit a serious crime and the media will be calling for Ken Clarke to resign. Some of the judges have commented that the government are being very short sighted, as the costs of delaying, will just cost the country more money.

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes ok to the amendment. Delete the OH's name from your last post.

[perplexedofdorset]

D'oh!!!!!!

 

As ever Uncle B, Thank you!

[Happyhippy1959]

Hi Perplexedofdorset

 

I have now had time to read this sorry story from post 1 to 735. If I can give you a little re-assurance it is this. I have had two relatives and a couple of friends in the same position from the naughty nighties property scandals and can add that each one has won. Yes it's a long haul and as pointed out it is a DJ lottery if ( and I very very much doubt it that it goes to court. ) Again look on the positives, 1. They have no evidence to back up there claim of a payment ( simples ) yes a DJ could agree with a Barrister and say yep it was paid because my learned friend and I could not possibly tell a porky pie, we were in the Cambridge tidily winks association together. Yes the Judge could find against you, ( but he or she would have to watch out and it is what they all hate an overturn on appeal,) before you all shout and say, but 99% of clients do not appeal, that is correct, but what if and it's a big if that Mr perplex is that 1%.!!!!!!!!!! It would be very dodgy ground just to say we believe the banks because the banks or DCA said you paid. !!!!

 

But I digress from my main point, Silly Girl is correct, they will come to a deal believe me, it may cost say £1k - £3k or say three years at £20 and then a final £500 maybe and its goodnight Irene, two of my relatives had the same, they only paid £5.00 for 15 months then was offered a £400 FF and believe me it was for more than £26k.... Two others just fronted it out,,, it was I think 10 - 11 years with no contact and basically they said see you in court. To date nothing and now it is SB....

 

I know it is a great worry for you, but as Dougal and the Brig and Silly Girl and Uncle all reiterate, they are on a very, very sticky wicket...... No one today only DCA owners and Fat cat Bankers and the Tory party have £26k to just hand over......The reason I am so up beat on this is that if they thought they had a blooming good chance of enforcing this your OH would have been flung in front of the DJ quicker than text message from Hunt to Murdoch... Also they are at such pains to stress that they would like to come to some agreement......

 

I like a little flutter now and again and my odds that this will pan out ok for you are 5/6 on you coming out winner. Evens at a very very very reduced settlement. And as for them standing up in our show case of the world Civil Courts ( stifle sarcasm ) 100/1 against. Now keep fighting and keep taking this sound advice, it is a long haul but I am so confident you will come through on this.

 

Also, take pride in what your doing, you have learnt a lot, you are fighting back, a lone Joe Public ( ok help from this great site ) against the might of a incompetent multi- government owned bank.... You should hold your head high, don't take it personally, I expect that 99% of the people in the Halifax who press the button would have a sneaky admiration for what you are doing, ( I worked in a financial institution for three years before I saw the light and went back to helping people in the NHS ) made lots of money and spent it, but now I see what they are really like, greed greed greed. Stick in there, my money is on You and CAG to win this.

[sillygirl1]

Thanks Happhyhippy1959 (I am a year older than you), my experience is from personal experience, and so far all I get is a flurry of letters and a few odd phone calls and then it is silent for months.

 

Briefly I was repossessed by a second charge company, not the main one (and they have marked my credit file they repossed on the date of sale - 8 months after the actual repossession - strike one to me), they also have been in administration and have had to repay people, no proper breakdown of amount has been given - strike two to me), and they haven't taken into consideration I am now unemployed and have no assets - strike three to me). There are others but if they now went to court the evidence against them is heavy, and again the whole account could be up for a special accountant to investigate - god knows what that would turn up! They are claiming £4,500 most of which they can't substantiate.

 

Last communication was an oik phoning up and trying to get me to make a payment, I almost felt sorry for the poor uninformed bloke who told me 'we will take you to court '.... I said 'bring it on'. He started blustering and a supervisor then came on the call and asked if I acknowledged the debt, I said NOPE, and asked if I was going to repay it, I said "NOPE" and then asked if I could record the call... the supervisor then ended the call.

 

They will put pressure on you to repay but they have very little grounds for you to do so, particularly after all this time. Remember many of these mortgage shortfalls have been sold and resold and are now getting into very murky waters.

 

Sit back and ignore them, there is very little they can do, if they could have done it then it would have already happened.

[unclebulgaria67]

Wise words from Happy and Silly. Add Uncle to the list and you have CAG's version of Mr Men or Dwarfs. Take your pick.

 

I know a number of people that had repossessions in the 1990's. None of them have had to pay the full shortfall. Some did not pay anything and one paid £2k for a debt of around £30k.

 

Another point is whether any judge would think it is a good idea for mortgage companies to be pursuing debts from the mid 1990's. People have to be able to move on and cannot be expected to deal with a debt from 17 years ago, arising out of a bad experience. The Halifax in this case, had Insurance to cover most of the shortfall, so it may be seen that pursuing it this late in the day, is not in the interest of either the consumer or financial services sector. Any judge may there look sympathetically on arguments related to the time delay and weakness in proof regarding contact/payments received over 10 years ago.

[perplexedofdorset]

Wow guys...thank you!

 

Having to reiterate our argument against their claim to these people time and time again gets very time consuming, tedious and depressing and your last few comments have added something fresh to this, nearly year old, battle!

 

I will make sure my OH sits down and reads this when he gets home from his 12 hour day.

I will insist that he does. He needs to see the support from you all.

 

He has left me pretty much to it since this nightmare found us in July last year...(from a parking fine remember) and sometimes I have been beside myself with it all, but he hasn't known, because keeping him free of worries like this helps keep our life together peaceful.

Sometimes I have felt so burdened and alone...and then I log on to CAG and find friendly, helpful and informed advice!

 

To everyone on here, I am so touched by your comments and continued support.Thank you

 

Happyhippy, I'm amazed you had the stamina to read right through from the beginning Thank you for persevering and your comments!

 

Silly girl, you've obviously followed this sorry tale from the sidelines, Thank you for your continuing optimism.

 

Brig, if you're out there, I know you haven't been as active as some in this case of late because you are actually out there, literally helping people with stuff like this, but I also know that if I need advice from you, you have always come to my aid...just call me Darling!

 

and Uncle B, as ever, you are my personal CAG star!

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks, glad to help. Though you should be thanking the person who invented the internet. Could you imagine the queues outside CAB offices, if there was no internet !

 

I have seen people affected by debt, which is why I take interest. I just don't like the way these companies operate. Very one sided. If you have an account with them, with money going in every month, they are very happy and offer you all sorts of products/services at extra cost. You never receive any free offers or letters offering free advice. Plus where is the interest on a standard account. As soon as you go overdrawn or have any problems, they hit you with interest/charges and if you don't resolve, they are all over you like a rash.

 

Then not to mention the banking crash, for which we have all had to pay towards, while some of the investment bankers have been able to retire early with a nice little nest egg.

 

I think this is why many people contribute towards CAG. Helping others but also a bit of a fight back as well.

[perplexedofdorset]

Letter from the original lady at the FOS arrived today, she said the case has now been referred to the ombudsman and enclosed a copy of her findings in a copy of a letter she originally sent us in April.

 

Why?

 

This woman obviously does not read anything I write and still seems unaware that I have already had confirmation of receipt of my (second to last) letter from her supervisor who told me the case was being handed to the ombudsman.

I'm not indulging her with a reply its a waste of £1.55 and an hour or so of my time.

 

By the way, my husband was very encouraged by your comments when he read them, also upset that I hadn't confided in him that I had felt so despondent and burdened from all this this year...cest la vie!

 

He too is all for saying 'take me to court', one of his arguments being that the H no longer exist and the company now chasing is mostly owned by the taxpayer, that the H should never have lent him the money in the first place as it was obvious he couldn't afford it and countless other worthy moralistic points that would get him precisely no where in a court of law.

 

I however am extremely wary of that route for very good reason, and hope by some divine miracle they see its a lost cause and GIVE UP...

[unclebulgaria67]

I expect it is just a tidy up of the file from her point of view. If you remember, you were invited to phone them to discuss how your complaint could have been handled better. They obviously diarised the file and then thought that she better send a letter. A bit of waste of her time.

 

Anyway see what the ombudsman has to say.

 

I know of people like your OH, who have any healthy disregard for these banks. One of them had paid off the amount borrowed, so decided it was OK just to default on the last few payments after they closed down their business. They didn't see why the bank concerned, should have the interest, when the business was no longer running. Makes you smile. . I think the way the looked at it, was why should a bank expect to continue to earn the money, after a business is no longer running.

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi Uncle B, Brig and everybody else who may have taken an interest in this sorry case, I hope you are all well.

 

Well its been a lovely long time since I was last on here but today we received a letter from the Ombudsman...

I quaked as I opened it but, to my great relief , it was just a letter saying that they were still dealing with our 'complaint' ... Phew!

one thing the letter did say was that their final decision would be 'legally binding on the business if we accept it'

 

Can anyone explain exactly what that will mean???/

 

 

Anyhow, long may this peace remain!!!

[dx100uk]

exactly what it says

 

what the FOS says

the firm MUST do.

 

dx

[cerberusalert]

Yes they are legally bound by the decision of FOS.... but you're not.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, I agree totally legally binding means penalties if they don't comply with a decison of the Ombudsman that you agree to.

[perplexedofdorset]

but what if the FOS don't uphold my complaint?????

 

Can you tell that I worry for a living??hahahahaha

[unclebulgaria67]

but what if the FOS don't uphold my complaint?????

 

Can you tell that I worry for a living??hahahahaha

 

I would not mind betting that Halifax are having difficulty getting proof of who made the payments and the FOS are pushing them for this. The FOS may be delaying it for a period to give Halifax as much time as is reasonable. Perhaps they have been given a deadline.

 

Hopefully the signs are good, as I would have thought that if the ombudsman did not think you had a case, you would have had a letter not upholding the complaint.

 

If the FOS don't uphold the complaint, then you will be back to having the Halifax asking for the shortfall. You could let them take it to court and defend. Or come to an arrangement, full & final or affordable repayments over a long period. Going to the FOS was always worth doing, as it has allowed over a year for the FOS to investigate and it has stopped you being hassled with possible court action. Also if you win, Halifax have to comply. If you lose then you are just back to where you were over a year ago.

[5bellies]

All I can say is your husband is lucky. If it were me in this position, the Halifax would be right out of luck - as my wife would have killed me.

 

But good luck in your challenge

 

I had a house repossessed by the then Scabby National back in 1989-90 they came at me again in 1996 after £30k (a Mortgage they gave me for £34k when they sold the house a few years later went for £12k)

I offered them £60 a month they agreed stipulating it should be reviewed every 6 months sent me a standing order form for 6 months. The 6 went through and I never heard a thing after that.

[perplexedofdorset]

Well dear friends (Is there anybody out there oh ooh...Da Di Dam...A very bad rendition of Pink Floyd)

 

All has been quite for the last part of this horrible year, thank god,

so all i can say is that I wish all of you who have been/are following this sorry tale,

who have given me so much reassurance and support,

and especially the Brig and Uncle B.

 

A Wonderful, Warm and Happy Christmas

followed by a Prosperous and Debt Free New Year