sorry all - Marston Group yet Again...

[Baron Von Vaderham]

Hello All, just joined up after doing some extensive reading. I have searched various threads through the forum, as I understand that people repeatedly posting the same problem can be irritating.

 

My problem is fairly common -

 

Back in april 2008, I missed a magistrates hearing, and was charged (correct terminology?) with withholding drivers details information, and fined £150. For one reason and another, it got left / buried / forgotten about.

 

Due to difficult financial circumstances, I was unable to pay, and it was passed over to Marstons. I have tried to organize payment with Cheshire HMCS, but they will not take payment, saying I have to deal with Marston. Cue one of Marstons officers turning up yesterday, and informing me that I had to pay him £425.00

 

Thats £150 original fine

£75 Admin fee

£200 Attendance costs

 

Now in the course of the conversation I informed him that

 

a. I was unable to pay the original £150

b. therefore, less likely to be able to pay his new inflated figure of £425

 

he then tried to coerce me into getting a bank loan or credit card to pay the fine.

 

As far as I'm aware, this is incitement to commit fraud...?

 

So, I researched this forum for answers, and have a few questions. In many of these cases, Form EX345 keeps popping up. But when I read form 345, it says that HCEO are allowed to charge fees, which seems at odds with what posters seem to be saying.

Here is a link to the version of the form I'm reading -

hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345_e.pdf

 

Would like to know where I stand on this - I can borrow the money from family to pay the original fine, but no way can I pay Marstons their fees.

 

 

Would finally like to say how wonderfull this forum is. I firmly believe that the system is out to screw the little people, and groups like this are the only chance we have of fighting back. I will definitely be making a donation to help keep it going.

 

ED

[Bartok]

This is not an HCEO, its a bailiff and there is no law setting any bailiffs fees on court fines. You just need to pay to the court office the fine amount. Phone the court and ask if a costs order has been made and why did you not get an opportunity to defend it? If no costs order then you owe no fees or costs to bailiff.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

Hi Bartok,

Thanks for your reply. I'll phone the court now to see if a costs order was made.

 

ED

[Baron Von Vaderham]

OK, so I spoke to HMCS Cheshire, and they have informed me that as they have issued a distress Warrant against me, Marston are entitled to charge fees in the course of their duties.

 

Is this true...?

[Bartok]

No its not.

 

The bailiff can only DEDUCT his fee from the amount collected as agreed in a contract between HMCS and the bailiff. To charge it to you, a costs order is needed.

 

You are safer to pay the money at the court office and get a receipt.

 

Do not contact the bailiff.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

If only I could pay the Court! They absolutely refuse to take payment, and insist I have to deal with Marston. Its hard to MAKE them take payment.

thanks for your continued assistance Bartok.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Baron Von Vaderham
extra thanks

[Bartok]

Go back to the court manager office and this time, take a witness with you, and if they refuse payment then your liability is discharged. There is no law requiring to you trade with a fraudster. Look up "Magicians Choice Council Tax" and that is the procedure you and witness should follow when you take cash to the court office. Just mod the forms for court fine.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

Ok, the saga continues. Just spoke to HMCS Cheshire, where the nice lady tells me that they have NO counter facilities for accepting payments in person anymore. They have an ATM machine at the magistrates court suitable for taking payment... but can I trust this to take it?

[Bartok]

Yes, so long as you get a receipt.

[brassnecked]

If the ATM can issue a printed receipt then it should be OK

 

Take a look at this thread also

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?313616-Marston-urgent-help-needed!

[Baron Von Vaderham]

Thanks Brassnecked, I'm told the ATM will give out a slip confirming the payment - only problem is the Court is 65 Flippin' miles away, and I don't fancy very much going there only to find out it wont accept my payment or some other kind of bureaucratic sillyness.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

So I've done a bit more research on the site, with slightly worrying results -

 

Reading this sticky thread above, Thread: MAGISTRATE COURT FINES. Template of a Statutory Declaration.

 

I read the following -

 

then the ONLY way to get this debt away from the bailiff and returned to the court is by way of a Statutory Declaration. A valid statutory declaration will REVOKE the distress Warrant and all bailiff fees will then have to be removed.

 

Being as my magistrates fine was issued in 2008, then it would be wrong (and silly) of me to make a statutory declaration - and it would seem from this that there is no way of getting the debt away from Marston.

 

So why the conflicting advice?

[Bartok]

You dont need ther debt returned to the court, just get the fine paid off and the case closes.

 

bailiffs cannot sue you for fees. theres a link to a court case precedent somewhere, something like JWB bailiffs ltd vs. city of westminster.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

OK, I'll see about getting the case paid to the court. Thanks for your help Bartok.

[brassnecked]

Yes the issue for you was paying the fine, and not paying the bailiff any possible fraudulent fees, which they may well not be entitled to charge

[tomtubby]

]No its not.

 

The bailiff can only DEDUCT his fee from the amount collected as agreed in a contract between HMCS and the bailiff. To charge it to you, a costs order is needed.

 

You are safer to pay the money at the court office and get a receipt.

 

Do not contact the bailiff[/color].

 

 

 

BARTOK,

 

I have a copy of the Contract between HMCS and all of the bailiff companies under contract to enforce these Distress Warrants and I can ASSURE anyone reading this that the Contract provides that the bailiff companies can charge the £75 admin fee and £200 visit fee IN ADDITION to the amount of the Distress Warrant !!!

[brassnecked]

Thanks tomtubby will now note this for reference so they can legally charge £275 made up of admin and visit fee, can they charge the visit fee for each and every visit?

[empty_cashcow]

Here is a copy of a letter I got in response from the courts about the bailiffs fees (magistrates fines)

 

[empty_cashcow]

Sorry, forum image is not very good.

 

I need 2 more posts to be able to post a link.

 

19/20

[empty_cashcow]

Post 20 - I shall post a proper link below.

[empty_cashcow]

[tomtubby]

 

 

For all regular posters on here, a copy of this document should be saved for future use.

[Bartok]

It says Marston can ask for them, but it doesnt say the person being fined is ordered to pay them. No contract.

[Baron Von Vaderham]

Interesting indeed. I think this enquiry has thrown up a possible condradiction on the advice given in the forum - partially the original reason for me starting another Marston Thread.

 

So on one hand we have an official court document stating that Marstons are fully entitled to charge the fees.

 

And on the other hand, a possibility that as their is no contract between myself and Marstons, then there is no obligation for me to pay these fees.

 

I do know that if you give Marston the origanal fine amount, they will put that towards discharging thier debt, and not the original fine.

 

So where does that leave us? and given the volume of similar enquiry's and calls for help on this exact same subject on CAG, it would be very helpful to get a definitive answer.

[Bartok]

Search the court service website for Form EX345 and its on page 3.