Boss keeping my wages whilst I'm off sick and cutting my hours...

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can help me. I've had my job 18 months and always worked the same hours, (contracted). I had an accident a few days ago which meant that I have been off work. I don't have a certificate because my Doc won't give one for the first week. It was my payday yesterday but my boss hasn't paid me, saying he won't until I'm back at work again, and that his needs have changed so my hours have been cut by a third. I can't afford this cut and because of the way he's treating me (very derogatory, unreasonable and rude) I would like to leave. I need more money to pay my rent and have two children to support. There are other jobs advertised at the moment which have start dates prior to the end of my 12 week notice period. I therefore don't want to give him 12 weeks notice, miss out on a job I think I can get and end up totally out of pocket. Plus I think he's trying to make me go back in to get my wages so it looks like I've agreed to the cut in my working hours, which I haven't. What can I do? Do I have any rights to obtain my wages, which are paid in arrears anyway? Really desperate as have DDs coming out of the bank in a few days and no money to pay them.

Thank you all very much in advance.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Nickynackynoo

[honeybee13]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

Was your injury at work please?

 

My best, HB

[Nickynackynoo]

Hello HB, no it wasn't I fell down the stairs at home.

[honeybee13]

Posted in error, sorry.

Edited July 19, 2011 by honeybee13

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi HB, thank you but my screen name isn't my real name and I haven't listed any others, so not sure what you mean? Thank you for trying to look out for me though!

[honeybee13]

I'm really sorry, I got my threads mixed up. Many apologies, I'll remove it.

 

HB x

[mariefab]

'It was my payday yesterday but my boss hasn't paid me, saying he won't until I'm back at work again, and that his needs have changed so my hours have been cut by a third.'

 

Did he say this ^ yesterday or today?

Was it by phone?

Are you normally paid directly into your bank on the same day each month?

If not how and when are you normally paid?

 

As it seems that you want to leave anyway I have an all guns blazing approach in mind. If you could answer the questions for me I'll explain.

Edited July 19, 2011 by mariefab
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[Nickynackynoo]

Hi,

Can't wait to hear the approach! Right, yesterday was when I got an email advising me that he had other personal expenses and so was reducing my hours by a third. Today I called to ask why I hadn't been paid and he told me that I'd get my wages when I returned fit for work. I am usually paid by bank transfer on or before the 18th of each month, and have all previous bank statements to show this. I think he's got the hump that I'm not in work and is trying to punish me for it. It wouldn't be so bad but I'm in an awful lot of pain too!

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

[mariefab]

I suggest that you send him the following email (if you are able to prove it's receipt) or letter by recorded delivery.

 

Dear....

 

My wages are to be paid by BACS on or before the 18th of each month.

As you are aware, I have been off work, due to an accident, for the last few days.

On 19th July I phoned you and asked why I hadn't been paid on the 18th.

Your response was that I'd get my wages when I returned fit for work.

This is unacceptable.

 

I have the statutory right to be paid my wages when they are due.

By intentionally declining to pay me you have made an unauthorised deduction contrary to section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996.

Please pay me immediately.

 

Also, on 18th July I received an email from you informing me that you had unilaterally decided to reduce my contracted working hours by a third.

I do not agree to reduce my working hours.

 

Yours......

[mariefab]

P.S. If he sacks you for asserting your statutory right to be paid this would be an automatically unfair dismissal. If he persists in refusing to pay you, you would be entitled to resign and claim that you were constructively unfair dismissed for asserting a statutory right.

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi Marie,

Thank you very much. I have sent a recorded delivery letter today with the text you gave me. As it happens I would really like to quit the job anyway, and preferably without having to give notice because I know he will make my life a misery for the entire 12 weeks if I have to stay. I've been reading elsewhere that cutting my hours that way is a breach of contract, do you know if this is true please? If it is, do I then have the right to quit without notice to look for another job?

Thank you very very much for your help, it is much appreciated.

[Marieleeza]

Hi Marie,

Thank you very much. I have sent a recorded delivery letter today with the text you gave me. As it happens I would really like to quit the job anyway, and preferably without having to give notice because I know he will make my life a misery for the entire 12 weeks if I have to stay. I've been reading elsewhere that cutting my hours that way is a breach of contract, do you know if this is true please? If it is, do I then have the right to quit without notice to look for another job?

Thank you very very much for your help, it is much appreciated.

 

If you do not get your pay you can fill in an ET claim for unlawful deduction from wages.

 

 

If you do that, it is possible that the employer will agree terms with you and you can part company with a reference and some money. He seems a real t*rd.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Marieleeza

[Nickynackynoo]

Thank you. I'm hoping not to get the sack, ideally, I know in this case it might be the easiest way out but I'd rather not have that on my record. I'd just really like to have my wages and be allowed to go on my way. Naiive I know. I'll keep you posted on how it goes, and thanks again.

[RachelMD]

If you do not get your pay you can fill in an ET claim for unlawful deduction from wages.

 

Later, if you get the sack and I mean THE SACK not resignation you might be able to claim unfair dismissal which entitles you to Interim Relief

 

 

Interim Relief must be applied for WITHIN 7 DAYS of the day of dismissal - you can do it online - a judge will look at it and order the employer to keep on paying your wages until your unfair dismissal case comes before an Employment Tribunal. So there is some hope of keeping the wolf from the door, if you get the sack.

 

 

If you do all that, it is possible that the employer will agree terms with you and you can part company with a reference and some money. He seems a real t*rd.

No, you're completely wrong that the OP could apply for interim relief.

Their circumstance wouldn't in any way qualify them to do so.

 

http://etclaims.co.uk/2010/07/preventing-dismissal-interim-relief/

http://www.emplaw.co.uk/lawguide?startpage=data/026100.htm

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi, thank you guys. Tbh I'm fairly sure I can successfully get a new job pretty quickly, as there are several advertised that are right up my street and I'm not overly concerned about getting extra money. Would just like my wages and to be able to walk away without anything nasty happening to me because I'm supposedly in the wrong. So far I have a perfect employment history and am overqualified for my current role, but took it because the hours suited, I'd rather not have any black marks on my record when applying for the next job, and I'm worried that a prospective employer may be put off by me taking a previous one to a tribunal. I know that's not supposed to happen, but it can't help I'm sure.

[mariefab]

Do you have a contract of employment stating your working hours (and have you always worked at least the number of contracted hours)?

If so, see if there's a clause in it permitting him to vary/reduce your hours and post it here if you find one.

Either in the email he sent you or when you phoned him; did he say when the cut in your hours would take effect?

 

You say that your wages are paid in arrears. If you'd been paid on the 18th what period would that payment have covered?

[Marieleeza]

I believed he could apply for Interim Relief, if he got the sack and claimed unfair dismissal but it has to be for making a "protected disclosure" that is the bit I missed.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Marieleeza

[Marieleeza]

Thank you. I'm hoping not to get the sack, ideally, I know in this case it might be the easiest way out but I'd rather not have that on my record. I'd just really like to have my wages and be allowed to go on my way. Naiive I know. I'll keep you posted on how it goes, and thanks again.

 

Yes I think you are right to keep the ET claim as an idle threat and try to get your money and move on. As you are over-qualified and he seems to be a stinker of a boss, you would be better off working elsewhere.

[stuart_coogh]

look at your contract, also you were certified off sick, so this cut be regarded as gross victimisation, you need to put in a grievance now and start making a diary of events

[Nickynackynoo]

Hi,

Thank you everyone for all your help. I'm going to wait and see what happens as far as getting my wages. I'm officially off sick until Monday but since I'm still in a lot of pain I doubt I will be fit to return to work next week as I can't stay sat down for very long without seizing up! Hopeless!

 

My contract states my set hours per week and I have worked them ever since I started there. There has never been any variation and is not any clause in the contract allowing him to adjust my hours. It is a very basic contract as it simply states job title, hours worked and times, holiday allowed, notice period, and tells me to look at the grievance procedure for information on that. So far I've never seen this procedure!

 

My wages are paid in a very unusual fashion, I can't really go into detail on here, but my wages due on the 18th would have been completely made up of hours I had already worked. None of my wages are paid in advance, if that's what you were asking.

 

Luckily I keep a diary anyway and have details of everything, every day worked, every derogatory comment etc.

 

I have cancelled all my DDs until I know when the money will come, my bank suggested I do this to avoid charges, and now I've got to contact all my utility companies etc on the bright side I've sent my CV off for several interesting looking new jobs, now my youngest is at school I can do more hours.

 

I suppose I just have to wait and see, and hope that he'll do the right thing. I will keep you posted and thanks again.

[Nickynackynoo]

look at your contract, also you were certified off sick, so this cut be regarded as gross victimisation, you need to put in a grievance now and start making a diary of events

 

Hi Stuart, thanks for your comment. Unfortunately I'm not certified sick at the moment, my doctor wouldn't give me a cert for the first week, apparently I have to self certify until the 8th day. Pretty sure I won't be able to go back next week anyway though so I'm sure she'll sign me off from next Monday, but that won't cover the point where he's dropped my hours unfortunately. Starting to think I should have paid the £25 for a private sick note! Might look into doing this retrospectively.

 

I only want my wages that I worked for and earned and to be able to move on.

[mariefab]

Have you checked on track and trace to see whether he's received your letter?

Has there been any further contact either from him or you since you sent it?

 

If you like I can draft a resignation for you so that will enable you to have your cake and eat it.

By that I mean that I'll draft something that:

allows you to quit with immediate effect (so that you don't have to work any notice thus freeing you to get another job),

claim your outstanding wages,

claim any accrued but untaken holiday entitlement (you'll need to give me some information about this),

and (without making him aware of it) still retain to option to make an Employment Tribunal claim for unfair constructive dismissal, unauthorised deduction from wages, breach of contract etc. if he plays silly buggers or if you don't find another job within a couple of months.

[Sk1ppy]

Hi there

 

This sounds like 'Unlawful deductions from wages' speak to ACAS Monday morning.

 

ACAS Webby

 

CAUTION If there is a clause in you contract says they can deduct they can. If they changed your contract to make the deduction it needs to be discust/negotiated between parties of contract and agreed in writing.

 

I Think this is failure to comply with a legal obligation may even be criminal. (subject to your contract)

 

Good luck

 

QUOTE

 

The protection given to workers in relation to deductions from their wages under the Employment Rights Act 1996. Sections 13 to 27 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (ERA 1996) set out the provisions that protect workers from unauthorised deductions from their wages.

[RachelMD]

It's certainly not criminal, Sk1ppy.

[Sk1ppy]

It's certainly not criminal, Sk1ppy.

 

Yea, but it's considered very serious. I know the phrase makes Payroll Manager shake in their shoes. I IT contract in a payroll capacity and have heard the phrase before in a meeting with a payroll manager in attendance.

 

The whole fabric of the PAYE system would be undermined if this was allowed to be common place.

 

Cheers