Minicredit - Loan Agreement validity

[Tee4Tim]

Hi there, some of you may already be familiar with my other Minicredit thread, in attempting to cancel my loan with them I have discovered more about their practises and know I am wondering if their agreement is valid. Here are my thoughts:

 

KEY FINANCIAL INFORMATION

Credit Limit: £1000.00

Each time you borrow from us, you must make one repayment, which is to be made 1 to 42 days

after the day on which you receive the loan from us. The amount of your repayment depends upon

the amount you borrow from us.

If you make your required repayment, there will be no other repayments you will need to make. We

may vary the amount of your repayment and your repayment date, on written notice, to reflect any

extension of the due date for repayment.

*APR: 4144% pa

*APR is the total cost of the credit to you including all interest, fees and charges, expressed as an

annual percentage of the amount of credit granted.

 

* This section reflects a supposed credit limit I have never been able to borrow, all attempts to obtain funds more than £250 have failed. Does that in itself invalidate the agreement? (I have evidence of them failing to provide funds in excess of £250)

* This section does NOT include any statement regarding the date of collection other than between 1 and 42 after I receive a loan from them. Therefore provided I paid the loan amount + interest within that timescale, am I within the agreement? Additionally it doesn't actually specify that the amount I repay depends on both the amount I borrow AND the length of time I have it (although below it does mention 1% per day)

 

OTHER FINANCIAL INFORMATION

Total Charge for Credit: The 'Total Charge' for Credit depends upon the amount you borrow from us.

The following shows the total Charge for Credit you will pay for the different amounts that you can

borrow what depends of loan amounts:

1) Interest charges: 1% per day of loan amount.

2) Fast Advance Transmission Fee £5.50 - £20.00, repayable in advance (optional).

3) Loan request charge £1 if made by text message, online request is free.

4) Subsequent repeated online requests maybe chargeable if previous one declined.

 

* The statement about the Total Charge for Credit it not even English!

 

* Fast Advance Transmission fee is applicable to all loan applications if not notified in written form at

least three days before sending loan application. Again the English is poor, if not notified of what?

 

Registration and PIN

3. When you register and apply with us ('Registration'), we will, at our discretion, provide you with a

unique Personal Identification Number ('PIN') which is personal to you and which will enable you to

make a request to us to borrow the sum from £100.00 to £1000 from us ('Request').

 

* This suggests a Registration and PIN are used solely for the purposes of requesting a loan. They have told me by e-mail that typing the PIN into their website electronically signed the agreement. Is that not incorrect? Additionally and most importantly, the agreement has NO signature box (I realise the signature itself can be replaced with a tickbox) and no date

 

From my lay person's eyes I see this agreement as unenforceable for the lack of signature box alone, and I am fully prepared to let them take me to court and allow a judge to determine if he agrees with that, but I would like other people's comments if they have greater knowledge of the Acts and Orders in question.

 

Many thanks,

Tim.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Tee4Tim

[Tee4Tim]

Received 1st Default Notice early this morning and warned of second one in two days. Replied as follows:

 

"This agreement has been legitimately cancelled under the terms of the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) 2004 Act. As a result this charge cannot be raised against it. You have previously stated that I "signed" the agreement on 4th March 2011. I have confirmed with Trading Standards via ConsumerDirect that this is incorrect as no monies were borrowed at that time. Without any lending taking place the agreement cannot come into force. I once again confirmed with ConsumerDirect that the statue permits 30 calendar days from notice being given for payment to be forthcoming. You have also informed me I may pay by UKash voucher, although that contradicted your earlier claim that payment MUST be by debit card. Therefore please expect the due amount within the allocated legal time period, remove any current erroneous charges and cease the addition of any further such charges."

[sillygirl1]

You are barking up the wrong tree - since the Rankine mess making an agreement invalid doesn't mean that the money wasn't lent. The fact that you have been trying to repay them very early on is your main case. Minicredit would loose heavily in court.

 

As said your best course is to write out in the following way and complain to the OFT and Trading Standards

 

Loan History

I xxx borrowed xxx from xxx on xxx

 

Repayment

I realised that I did not need nor want these funds and tried to repay on xxx - xxx days earlier than the original repayment date and within the 14 days allowed by distance selling

 

Correspondence History

List the correspondence history

 

Resolution

I want their bank details to pay them back the original amount loaned.

 

Keep it in that format and they will do something - trying to rip apart terms and conditions and finding loopholes doesn't work any more, yes there are loads of 'grey' areas in their t&cs but it is NOT the way to achieve what you require.

 

Experience on this site has proved that the law doesn't really like people using t&Cs (nor the companies themselves) to stop somebody repaying a PDL early.

 

The OFT and Trading Standards is your fastest route.

[rebel11]

Thread Merged.

[Delboy01]

Can I ask, it is a default sum notice???

[Tee4Tim]

Yep Delboy they say it's a NOTICE OF DEFAULT SUM UNDER SECTION 86E OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

Thanks for your input sillygirl1. Don't get me wrong, I have not trying to wriggle out of paying, simply that as you state in the resposne I should give, I am purely cancelling the loan within the statutory period, although they dispute that as they say the agreement came into force when I "signed" it, even though I was refused for a loan, but in March. I have had two other loans from them since, the first for £250 and duly paid off, the second for £150. As you say, certainly to me as an "outsider" this whole area of law same messy and unclear to present. Maybe it's therefore not surprising that these type of people take advantage of that, even though some of their tactics are distinctly illegal. Anyway, they have mentioned paying by UKash voucher, which I am willing to do. In the meantime, they have racked up supposed default charges totally £80. How should I proceed? My idea is to simply purchase a UKash voucher for the original amount + interest up until the cancellation point, and contact them to advise, if they wish to take that payment as full and final settlement I will give them the 19 digit code? Thanks, Tim.

[Tee4Tim]

I e-mailed the folks at Minicredit, as per my post above and have received this as a response:

 

" Our final response to Your Complaint is that the Loan Agreement is not cancelled because the time passed from the date You signed the Agreement. All the charges and interest have been and will be added to the current outstanding balance until full repayment or Legal action. You may see the balance and make payments through Your MiniCredit.co.uk online account 24/7."

 

Do you think it wise that I should pay what I believe I owe anyway, or withhold funds until the matter is settled (which is likely to be in court as that is seemingly where they want to head? I have already advised them I do not wish them to contact me further by phone, only e-mail or letter and I have also sent the relevant letter outlining I am not prepared to accept a visit from a debt collector.

 

Thanks, Tim.

[sillygirl1]

It would be an idea to pay them the original sum back and then forget about the contract issues, you are digging a huge big black hole (as I've already said).

 

It is now time to draw a line under this episode and move on - if you don't do it now you will be in way too deep in a couple of weeks time.

[Tee4Tim]

Hi Sillygirl, can you advise, should I JUST be paying back the original sum, or "as per their Ts & Cs" the original sum + daily interest until the cancellation notice?

[42man]

Tim, I'm not an expert of the ins and outs of these agreements, but to add to a point you mention above about the unsigned / unexecuted agreement, firstly they can provide a reconstituted one if need be (see this - http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/reports/article6995381.ece and secondly, they would only need to show a tick box where you agreed to their terms and conditions, I don't think this would be difficult for them to produce (rolling agreement or not).... - as for the argument about the credit limit (i.e they gave you £250 instead of £1000), I really feel this may be a 'de minimus' issue. (i.e. something a judge may not bother with).

[sillygirl1]

I'd advise paying back the original sum and if they want to sue for the rest you can state "I have paid back the original sum"

[hammyhound]

I have just paid back a loan I had with these horrible people, asked for £200 only accepted for £100, £80.50 turned up in my bank account after them taking £19.50 transmission fee. Just paid back and guess what they charged £5.50 transmission fee to repay the loan. Couldn't be bothered arguing with them as I knew that every day the amount would increase, glad to get rid of them.

[42man]

Unbelievable.....please do report this to the OFT !!

[42man]

Very interesting website.....I can't see anywhere any mention of any transmission fees - in fact their website says this - 2. What are the charges? Minicredit motto is no hidden cost all clear upfront. There is no small print of our easy online cash advance loan application.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE report them to the OFT....

[42man]

They clearly state - There are no hidden charges.

[42man]

You agree that if you register with us and sign Loan Agreement Microcredit Ltd may charge the following fees to your card registered with us; loan application processing fee, account set up and monthly account services fee. - But they do not state exactly WHAT they are...

[42man]

A quick search on the net reveals that the company are 30, BOROUGH HIGH STREET, LONDON, SE1 1XU AKA Alma’s Restaurant and Pizzeria! The head office of Mini Credit is an Italian Cafe.

[hammyhound]

You always get an automated reply to any questions you had. I did receive a response to my email which I used from the emails they had sent to me and asked them what the £5.50 transmission fee was - they said 5.50 - early repayment fee.

 

Disgusting.

 

HH

[Tee4Tim]

Just a quick update, things have rattled on for a while with them refusing to believe I have cancelled the loan appropriately and this morning's e-mail was full of bluster:

 

"We would like to remind you that your MiniCredit overdue loan balance is £304.50.

 

If we are unable to recover full amount within next 10 days we'll send Your account to THE DOORSTEP COLLECTOR and You will incur extra costs.

 

We may also contact Your employer and start legal action against You. We also report the status of Your outstanding account to Credit reference agencies. All this process affects your credit score adversely and ability to receive credit in the future."

 

*** note that the £304.50 is based on an original loan of £150 with £65 already repaid at the time of them sending!

 

I have replied but am losing the will to live with having to repeat myself time and time again to them:

 

"Please be advised that I cancelled the loan in line with my rights under UK law, a fact I have had confirmed by the OFT. I have since had £65 withdrawn by yourselves from my account, despite me requesting you not to use my card, and today I have made a further debit card payment of £85. This makes a total of £150 and repays the original loan amount.

 

With regard to the points below, as previously mentioned, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Additionally, please also be aware that you have no right to make contact with my employer with regard to this matter and should you do so will also be in contravention of the OFT's guidelines and in breach of the Data Protection Act. The OFT clearly state: 2.6 i) disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless legally entitled to do so."

 

I am pretty certain this will be ignored like everything else, but at least my actions are recorded and explained. Also, for those having difficulty contact Minicredit, use the e-mail address [email protected]. That address does not get bounced or issue an auto-reply.

[Tee4Tim]

HELP! Dispite having changed the card details Minicredit have today raided my account for £105. I have spoken to Nationwide and they inform me this is because Visa still have the account details and this is permitted. I can get sent a Visa dispute form (within 48 hours) which will get the funds creditted, but they say short of closing the account and opening a new one, there is nothing that can be done. Is that really true? I cannot believe the banking system is that lax! Thanks, T.

[dx100uk]

demand a charge back

 

dx

[Tee4Tim]

Thanks dx. It appears that is what the Nationwide form actually is, so I will fill it out and take it from there. I am so utterly shocked that this kind of behaviour is actually permitted by the UK's banking system and that stopping a card doesn't stop all transactions. P.S. great choice of album, Jeff Beck's guitar work on that is awesome.

[sillygirl1]

I have advised to change banks completely, Halifax Easycash (signup online), Co-op and Post Office are all good alternatives.

 

Report Minicredit to Trading Standards and the OFT as the OFT has sanctioned companies for raiding bank accounts at will. Let your local police know you need a crime reference number to claim on the insurance (this way the bank HAS to refund the money) and write to the Banking Ombudsman with a complaint.

 

If you don't follow the above advice you are wasting your time complaining on the site.... follow the 'rules of engagement' with the companies and they are powerless.

[trevstanley]

I have also now added my story to those at FreshstartLtd - Click on the Mini Credit s ca m link on the righthand side and check out the location of the "office") and informed them I am happy they add my details to their OFT case. Additionally I have raised it with the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Just been on the above site and apparently their head office is an italian pizza shop!! What a bunch of con artists!