Any advice on how to appeal? Car towed in 6 minutes for alleged contravention I dont think occured

[green_and_mean]

If the £265 included a cost of the PCN as well as the tow, then I think it has been suggested previously in CAG that you can appeal the PCN on the basis of council impropriately in that by having to pay the PCN at the same time as recovering your car, you lost your right to appeal against the PCN in the first place,

 

If the car is towed you can still appeal even after payment.

[green_and_mean]

This regulation only applies where the applicable charges are those under section 101A of the RTRA 1984. Section 101A is made further to section 101 and therefore it only concerns the recovery of those vehicles that had the appearance of being abandoned. Appearing so either at the time of removal or sometime after.

 

Thats not actually true...

 

101 Ultimate disposal of vehicles abandoned and removeable under this Act.

(1) Subject to subsection (3) and section 101A below], a competent authority may,

in such manner as they think fit, dispose of a vehicle which appears to them to be

abandoned and which has been, or could at any time be, removed in pursuance of—

(a) an order to which this section applies, or

(b) regulations under section 99 of this Act.

99 Removal of vehicles illegally, obstructively or dangerously parked, or abandoned

or broken down.

(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for the removal of vehicles

which have been permitted to remain at rest—

(a) on a road in contravention of any statutory prohibition or restriction, or

(b) on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as

to cause obstruction to other persons using the road or as to be likely to cause

danger to such persons, or

[TheBogsDollocks]

What's not actually true?

[TheBogsDollocks]

If the car is towed you can still appeal even after payment.

 

Which makes a mockery of the council mantra that you cannot pay & appeal due to paying being deemed as admitting liability. Seems councils want it both ways! Paying is either admitting liability or it is'nt. A council can't pick and choose when to apply the principle.

 

A person is still denied the opportunity to make an informal challenge despite the fact that the PCN bestows this right. A person is also denied the right to pay the PCN anytime within 28 days which is another right the PCN says a person has. Statute gives clear instruction what process must ensue following the service of a reg 9 PCN and yet all this is dismissed where removals are concerned. In other words councils treat the PCN as having no lawful relevance except of course for the bit that imposes the charge. I can't see anywhere under the TMA 2004 where only the charging aspect of the PCN is applicable while the rest of what it says can be disregarded.

Edited July 16, 2011 by TheBogsDollocks

[green_and_mean]

What's not actually true?

 

That 101a only applies to abandoned vehicles

[green_and_mean]

Which makes a mockery of the council mantra that you cannot pay & appeal due to paying being deemed as admitting liability. Seems councils want it both ways! Paying is either admitting liability or it is'nt. A council can't pick and choose when to apply the principle.

 

 

It has nothing to do with admitting liability its to do with the regulations, you can only make formal representations to the notice to owner if you pay you will never get one so you cannot appeal. The removal regulations allow for an appeal after the vehicle has been released.

[TheBogsDollocks]

That 101a only applies to abandoned vehicles

 

That's not what I said. I said s.101A is made further to s.101 and as such it concerns the recovery (by the owner) of those vehicles that had the "appearance" of being abandoned. Appearing abandoned and actually being abandoned are not quite the same thing. If the owner comes forward and reclaims the vehicle then clearly it has not been abandoned. A vehicle may initially have been removed for a parking contravention and it is only while it is stored at the pound that the council may believe it to have the appearance of being abandoned (due to no one making any immediate claim for example).

 

The appeal regs (regulation 11 of the 2007 Appeal Regs) only applies where the charge on recovery of a vehicle falls under s.101A RTRA 1984.

 

11.—(1) This regulation applies to a person where, as respects a vehicle which has been found in a civil enforcement area for parking contraventions and removed under regulations made under section 99 of the 1984 Act—

 

(a)he is required to pay an amount on recovery of the vehicle under section 101A of that Act;

 

My argument is that the removal charges for a vehicle that never had the appearance of being abandoned is not those under s.101A but those under s.102 RTRA 1984.

 

Schedule 9 TMA 2004 adds credence to this claim.

 

(1)This Schedule provides for the setting of the levels of-

(a)penalty charges, including any discounts or surcharges,

(b)charges made by authorities under section 102 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27) for the removal, storage and disposal of vehicles found in areas that are civil enforcement areas for parking contraventions

 

I don't expect to win you over G&M as I never ever have in any of our disagreements but hopefully one or two others may think I may be onto something. There's no denying that under the TMA 2004 there is a statutory procedure that is supposed to ensue once a reg 9 PCN is served and no where under the TMA 2004 does it say this procedure does not apply once a vehicle is removed. Had the charges under s.102 been applied then there would be no interference with the statutory process of a reg 9 PCN. I don't believe this to be a coincidence.

[purplesuzie]

Thanks for your help thedogsbollocks.... you make a compelling point. Now to writing my appeal!

[nero12]

Can we see the paperwork please -- all of it front and back.

[purplesuzie]

Can we see the paperwork please -- all of it front and back.

 

Hi there,

 

I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you. I just got married, and things have been hectic. I am also travelling again for three weeks so I apologise if I dont reply again for a while.

 

Anyhow, I sent off my representation, but would like to know opinions of where I stand incase they come back with a rejection of my appeal.

 

I have attached documents, will attach the rest on another post as it will only let me attach 5. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Thanks

 

ElizabethPCN.pdf

pics sent3.pdf

doc letter.pdf

Pound Doc.pdf

pics sent2.pdf

[purplesuzie]

here is the rest of the documents

cover letter pictures.pdf

pics sent5.pdf

pics sent4.pdf

receipt.pdf

pics sent.pdf