Parking ticket on a disabled hire car

[Al27]

Sounds like complete court incompetence, which isn't that unusual.

 

Can we see the paperwork and can you tell us what court this is all being done through?

 

Or have Trethowans judge gained a default judgement against the hire company and then just scribbled your dads name on there themselves and forwarded it to you? That would be highly unlawful.

[fedup74]

Yes Al27 that's what they have done- they asked for a set aside on the original judgement against the hire co. Dad received General Form of Judgement or order-N24;

 

1. The judgement is set aside pursuant to CPR13.3 (1) (b) (i)

 

2. Dad added to proceedings as the defendant and remove hire co

 

3.The amended claim form to be served upon the new defendant.

 

In with the order was the original claim form with hire co crossed out and my dad's name handwritten in, then hire co's address crossed out and dad's handwritten in- does that make sense??!! There were no other court forms ie acknowledgement of service/ defence/admission form.

 

I think they thought that was deemed served and that's why they won in default. It was all done through Southampton CC and I've sent the N244 there on Friday. The claim form has got a July date on- I will try and upload photo but I'm rubbish on computers!!

They have all got the same claim no too!!

 

Thanks for your help

[sailor sam]

Something seriously ain't right here... I can't see how they can simply 'change' respondents after the claim has been lodged and judgement entered. That surely would not be within the civil law regs.

[fedup74]

I would have thought if it was set aside then they would have to issue a whole new claim in my dad's name and not just cross out the original details.

I can't understand how the court has given them a judgement in default when they know they have not issued a fresh claim

[fedup74]

 

 

 

Don't know if I've done this right!!

Copy of original claim form- had to edit details obviously- but hire co name was crossed out and dad's written in. The POC is very short!!!! I've rung Southampton court and they have received N244 so it will go before DJ- fingers toes and eyes crossed!!!!

[esmerobbo]

Is that all you have got. Did you not say they sent you a "Judgement" with the hire company crossed off and your Dads name entered?

 

That's a claim form with rather poor particulars of claim.

Edited October 11, 2011 by esmerobbo

[Al27]

That is a claim form. Have you had a 'GENERAL FORM OF JUDGEMENT'?

 

If not, your dad just needs to defend the case from scratch. Or in this case, request better particulars, because at the moment we have Trethowan's usual **** take of 5 words.

[Al27]

That is a claim form. Have you had a 'GENERAL FORM OF JUDGEMENT'?

 

If not, your dad just needs to defend the case from scratch. Or in this case, request better particulars, because at the moment we have Trethowan's usual **** take of 5 words.

[fedup74]

 

 

 

 

This one????? It has my dad's name on. I will post up their N244 application to replace my dad as the defendant instead of hire co.

Edited October 11, 2011 by fedup74
added info

[esmerobbo]

That's the one, where it has defendant the hire companies name was crossed out and your dads entered?

[Al27]

Ok, what you're doing so far is fine.

 

The judge should arrange a very short hearing where your dad can explain that he didn't receive any claim form.

 

Also ask for further and better particulars that explain the legal basis of the claim and request that Trethowans submit in full the contract they are relying on. After all, how can you submit a defence when you don't know the contract they are stating has been breached? 5 words is atrocious.

 

Finally, remember to ask for a refund on the court fee.

[fedup74]

Right thanks Al27. Who does he ask for refund- the court or claim it as costs if they don't get judgement?

 

Esmerobbo- it was the actual original claim form (1st pics ^^^^ ) that had his name handwritten in and hire one crossed out. I think cos he never responded to that (he never got any other forms with it ie defend etc) that's why they got the judgement.

 

Anything else you need posting just let me know- well proud of meself for sussing out photobucket- it's took me about 4 years!

Edited October 11, 2011 by fedup74

[sailor sam]

I would be interested in knowing how they can make a claim for a 'breach of parking reg notice'. That sounds like a penalty to me which is un-recoverable by a private concern under current laws. Also changing defendant's on a stamped court doc is surely against correct protocol. This is all very suspicious and I would be asking the court some serious questions.

[esmerobbo]

I have FOI'd Aintree asking for a copy of their "parking Regulations". However they do seem to believe they can issue "fixed penalty notices".

 

 

http://www.aintreehospitals.nhs.uk/Library/pdf_files/FT_Governors_Jan_07/FixedPenaltyNotices.pdf

 

Also the young lady who filed the claim form has a specialist area!

 

 

SPECIALIST AREA

 

Enforcement of Penalty Charge Notices (Car Parking)

[fedup74]

Hmmm so they have put it in writing that they are facilitating a penalty:madgrin: and there is a chance for them to improve their revenue? All this revenue taken from people who actually keep them afloat!!! I've printed this off esmerobbo- thanks a lot.

One question- are they allowed to call them Penalty Charge Notices seeing as a private co canot apply a penalty?

[fedup74]

Got hearing for set aside in December at our local court- allocated 15mins. Is there anything in particular we need to take- I've took photos on my phone of where he had parked- no signage just double yellows. Also got a piccy of their van parked right across a yellow box blocking traffic ( just for the fun of it!!)

 

Any advice on what to say (apart from he never got the paper work) would be really appreciated:-)

Thankyou

[esmerobbo]

Have you received anything from Alexis?

[fedup74]

No not yet

Got a photo of their tickets too- it says "Fixed PENALTY Notice" !!!

 

Will I have to take anything to the court or will it just be the reasons for set aside?

[esmerobbo]

Not 100% sure but I think at this point just the reason for the set aside which is that you were never served the claim, and were not allowed to enter a defence. Hopefully someone can confirm.

Just write down the events regarding the receipt of the judgement as they happened,and explain it to the judge.

 

1 Solicitors claimed against hire company.

2 Won judgement.[Default/defended]

3 Hire company then set aside and gave your name.

4 Solicitors then reclaimed without you knowing and obtained a default judgement.

 

Once the set aside has been done its goes back too the start. However it may be worth taking along a brief outline of your defence.

[sailor sam]

Surely the defence should be that the claiment's claim is in relation to a penalty which cannot be recovered by civil proceedure? (Be sure to take a copy of the ticket with you) Also, the 'ticket' was issued to the vehicle because it was parked on DYL's which were not on a public road so do not have any legal status. If they do, then the the claiment must produce a copy of the relevant traffic order to the OP (if requested) in order to give him the opportunity to consider his defence.

 

Personally, I think you will be in and out in under 15 minutes if the judge is on the ball. Don't forget that you can claim travel expenses/time off work ect to attend the hearing!

[fedup74]

Oooops- that would be quite tricky to take the ticket to court Sailor Sam- it was ripped into tiny pieces somehow!!

 

I hope your right - I suppose it all depends on the judge.

 

Does anybody know if I will be able to speak for my dad- he has a bad heart condition, asthma and COPD so he gets really breathless when talking.

 

Thankyou

[Al27]

Yes, at this stage you are seeking to set aside because of procedural impropriety - your dad never got any original claim.

 

The basis, or otherwise, of the claim is secondary at the moment, although the judge may or may not bring it up. Either way, it's well worth complaining about the particulars. Trethowan's 5 words is usual and we've seen judges order them to get their act together. If they are making a claim under contract, what is the precise wording of the contract they are relying on?

 

If your dad is too ill to attend, you need to write to the judge no later than 7 days before and ask for you to represent him instead.

 

Don't worry about the court hearing - it's all very informal. You'll just be sat around a table.

[fedup74]

Thanks Al

[fedup74]

Received a letter saying they will be opposing the application cos according to them we have no real prospect of successfully defending the claim. They then go on to say he didn't respond directly to the breach of contract notice issued. They want him to prove which attendant told him to park on the kerb!! They also refute the allegation that all the parking spaces were full!! It's absolutely crazy to try and get a disabled space in the hospital- we went last week and seen 3 tickets issued to disabled drivers in the space of 20 minutes!!

 

Their last point is to say "The £50 is a charge levied for not parking in the correct place. It is not a penalty for breaching the contract."

 

They want him to withdraw the application and they will be claiming costs- just over £300!!

 

Do we answer their points they have made or just leave it up to the court. Quite worried as they said the amended claim was deemed re-served along with a response pack- THERE WAS NO RESPONSE PACK- just hire co crossed out and my dad's name written in- surely this is not right??

[sailor sam]

Received a letter saying they will be opposing the application cos according to them we have no real prospect of successfully defending the claim. They then go on to say he didn't respond directly to the breach of contract notice issued. They want him to prove which attendant told him to park on the kerb!! They also refute the allegation that all the parking spaces were full!! It's absolutely crazy to try and get a disabled space in the hospital- we went last week and seen 3 tickets issued to disabled drivers in the space of 20 minutes!!

 

Their last point is to say "The £50 is a charge levied for not parking in the correct place. It is not a penalty for breaching the contract."

 

So I would argue it's actually a fine or penalty for not parking in the correct space then. Make sure you show this letter to the judge.

 

 

They want him to withdraw the application and they will be claiming costs- just over £300!!

 

I bet they do! They have practically admitted in writing that they are recovering a penalty! also there is the small matter of the judgement being 'altered'.

 

Do we answer their points they have made or just leave it up to the court. Quite worried as they said the amended claim was deemed re-served along with a response pack- THERE WAS NO RESPONSE PACK- just hire co crossed out and my dad's name written in- surely this is not right??

 

Let it go to court. My first question tio the judge would be how can a judgement be altered to include another 'respondent' when that party have never had the opportunity to file a defence? My second would be how can a private concern recover a 'fine' or 'penalty' when they have no legal authority or status to issue them under English law?