PCN when the business keeps a log of registration for customer using the premises

[Park-n-hide]

Good evening all, I've searched the this forum and sticky threads.

They have been very enlightening and useful, but I still have a couple of questions..

 

Firstly in general, under what circumstances should the RK of a vehicle simply just pay the invoiced amount received from a PPC and not try ignoring/appealing?

 

And specifically:

If the car park provider's premises have a book in which customers may log their vehicle registration and time of use of the premises, then how does lack of a log entry for a vehicle registration covering the time when the parking charge notice was issued effect the validity of the charge?

 

Obviously I've heard of somebody receiving a charge notice issued on the same day (although not necessarily the same time) that they were using the provider's premises and did not log their registration to show when they used the premises.

 

I would like to know what is the best advice in such a case and greatly appreciate your help!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Good evening all, I've searched the this forum and sticky threads.

They have been very enlightening and useful, but I still have a couple of questions..

 

Firstly in general, under what circumstances should the RK of a vehicle simply just pay the invoiced amount received from a PPC and not try ignoring/appealing?

 

In general, if there is a bigger issue at play here.

I can only really think of where not to do so would have a material adverse impact on the RK. Circumstances may be where the PPC is the employer or the agent of the employer of the RK and failure to pay may put the employment at risk (fairly or unfairly isn't really the issue). An alternative situation is where the aggro involved may be harmful to the health of the RK or a loved one.

 

In the above circumstances I would suggest that the template letter approach may be an appropriate first route.

 

And specifically:

If the car park provider's premises have a book in which customers may log their vehicle registration and time of use of the premises, then how does lack of a log entry for a vehicle registration covering the time when the parking charge notice was issued effect the validity of the charge?

 

Obviously I've heard of somebody receiving a charge notice issued on the same day (although not necessarily the same time) that they were using the provider's premises and did not log their registration to show when they used the premises.

 

I would like to know what is the best advice in such a case and greatly appreciate your help!

I would have thought that the absence of details in such a log assists the RK as it casts doubt on the existence of the claimed contract agreement to its purported terms.

[dx100uk]

ignore!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

dx

[afcwben]

Good evening all, I've searched the this forum and sticky threads.

They have been very enlightening and useful, but I still have a couple of questions..

 

Firstly in general, under what circumstances should the RK of a vehicle simply just pay the invoiced amount received from a PPC and not try ignoring/appealing?

 

Never, the RK is not responsible and has no requirement to divulge any info unless it is a request from an official body such as the LA or Police

 

And specifically:

If the car park provider's premises have a book in which customers may log their vehicle registration and time of use of the premises, then how does lack of a log entry for a vehicle registration covering the time when the parking charge notice was issued effect the validity of the charge?

 

If it is a private car park the validity of any charge should reflect the actual losses. For example if there is no charge to park then that is the value of damages allowed. If however, the charge is £1 per hour and the log book shows the car was present for two hours then that is the entitlement.

 

Obviously I've heard of somebody receiving a charge notice issued on the same day (although not necessarily the same time) that they were using the provider's premises and did not log their registration to show when they used the premises.

 

Is that a condition of using the car park?

 

I would like to know what is the best advice in such a case and greatly appreciate your help!

 

Would not bother, just ignore, but if the charge is £1 per hour and you are going to be there for two hours then pay £2

[Park-n-hide]

I would have thought that the absence of details in such a log assists the RK as it casts doubt on the existence of the claimed contract agreement to its purported terms.

Good point!

 

Is the log book a condition of using the car park?

Nope - I checked the sign today: the parking is for customers of the shop and the gym. So lack of log entry would not discount the possibility of using the shop, let alone using the gym without logging it.

 

Would not bother, just ignore, but if the charge is £1 per hour and you are going to be there for two hours then pay £2

In this particular case there is no charge for parking anyway, so I can't see how the charge could possibly reflect losses incurred due to a breach of the terms on the sign...

... yet if you park and therefore implicitly agree to the terms on the sign - including the charge for breaking their code - does this mean you've agreed to the amount of the charge in the case of a breach despite the fact it is many many times over any conceivable loss to the provider?

[afcwben]

It sounds like just ignore then

[Coupon]

Good evening all, I've searched the this forum and sticky threads.

They have been very enlightening and useful, but I still have a couple of questions..

 

Firstly in general, under what circumstances should the RK of a vehicle simply just pay the invoiced amount received from a PPC and not try ignoring/appealing?

 

 

 

 

Errrrrm....never! I cannot think of a single case on any forum where I have told someone to pay or to appeal a fake P.C.N. from a PPC. Pointless.

 

 

And specifically:

If the car park provider's premises have a book in which customers may log their vehicle registration and time of use of the premises, then how does lack of a log entry for a vehicle registration covering the time when the parking charge notice was issued effect the validity of the charge?

 

Obviously I've heard of somebody receiving a charge notice issued on the same day (although not necessarily the same time) that they were using the provider's premises and did not log their registration to show when they used the premises.

 

I would like to know what is the best advice in such a case and greatly appreciate your help!

 

 

 

Just ignore them. Google 'private parking letters, what to expect' and read the results, see previews of the threatogram letters in pictures.

 

Still ignore them!

 

Not having written a car reg in a log book could happen to any customer of that place. Customer may not realise, new staff member may not realise, reception desk my be busy, reception desk may be temporarily unmanned...all reasons why a car reg number may be omitted from a log book. Also there's the question of the DPA. They are collecting and STORING data so whoever keeps that data should, I think have to provide each person with info as to how the data is stored and for what purposes...could be a DPA breach here which would be good reason for any person not to want to divulge their car details!

[Park-n-hide]

More good points, thanks everyone.

[Al27]

RK is irrelevant - the only person that matters is the person who entered into the alleged contract at the time.

[Park-n-hide]

The PPC (AS SECURI-T LTD) is now dissolved (as of 19th June 2011) but I have begun to receive letters in August from a "Roxburghe Debt Collectors" (Roxburghe (UK) LTD) pursuing the full "parking charge Notice" amount plus "late payment charges"!

 

How does the fact the "debt collectors" client is a dissolved company effect this?

 

And is it better to ignore it or to inform the debt collectors I dispute the claim from their client?

 

Edited September 12, 2011 by Park-n-hide
missed out words

[Jamberson]

A parking charge notice, if we are to take it seriously for a moment, is in effect a fine which a private company has decided to impose. From a legal perspective, they have no right to impose a fine on anyone. Courts can impose fines, police can fine you, councils under decriminalised parking legislation can issue a penalty charge. BUT..... no private company can regard themselves as entitled to start dishing out fines for breaching their rules, any more than you or I could start fining people for wearing clothes we dislike, keeping a pet hamster or supporting Arsenal. (although the last one would be worth a go!)

 

So - always ignore. There are no circumstances at all in which payment is appropriate. The fine is a legal joke and there is absolutely no debt and they cannot take you to court for it.

 

Don't confuse the issue with the hypothetical breach of contract situation. If they really wanted to try and sue for breach of contract, then the original parking charge has nothing whatever to do with the case. They would be suing for something else, and the two are not connected. So still no reason at all to pay the penalty charge.