Bailliffs Forced Entry

[mortyarty]

Baililffs from the Sheriffs Office who had not previously gained peaceful entry and had no walking possession forced their way through my back door yesterday. They used considerable force as the bolt was broken off (I've photographed all of the damage) and, as we never use this door, I had stacked a considerable number of books in front of it which were all over the place. I reported the matter to the police last night who said it was a civil matter. I was sure that this sort of action wasn't allowed so am unsure of how to proceed

 

The debt, £613 was from a business we ran which failed (a debt for magazine advertising). I don't deny the debt, but we are unable to pay at the moment but will be able to pay the £600 in around 1 month. The fees from the bailiff are an additional £1340. The bailiffs forced entry at our home address, this company have left a few letters in the past and I have sent letters to them but at no time have I met one of their bailiffs face to face and definatly at no time have I ever let a bailiff into the house.

 

They also entered an outdoor toilet room which has no access to the main body of the house (the childrens bikes are stored in there - its baisically a brick shed attached to the house) would this constitute walking posession

 

They now claim walking possession giving 5 days to respond.

A friend of mine saw the bailiff at our house and said he was wearing body armour - was this for protection or intimidation?

 

Many thanks in advance for any advice

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

Firstly can you confirm that you are in the UK or Scotland ?

What exactly is the outstanding amount for -is it goods/services or unpaid commercial rent ?

 

When does it relate to-and has there been any action in the Courts ?

Is this a firm of Bailiffs or a High Court Enforcement officer ?

Have you had a breakdown of the £1340 fees ?

And do you agree that the £613 is the correct figure due ?

Would maybe help if you could name the firm involved.

[mortyarty]

Many thanks for the reply

Yes, we're in the UK (England)

The outstanding sum is for a service (advertising space) for a buisiness we started that soon failed.

I agree that I owe a sum but I need to go through my records to confirm the amount. I did question the amount with the creditor.

A CCJ was obtained, a couple of letters were left at the door by the collection agents and I wrote to them outlining that I was aware of my rights and would not allow entry to the property.

the breakdown is;

Judgment debt - £613

Judgement costs - £60

Execution costs - £50

Intrest - £30

Sheriff's Fees - £1010

VAT - £190

 

the firm is Sheriffs High Court Enforcement Ltd

 

Interestingly I checked the name of the enforcement officer on both the Certified Bailiffs register and the HCEO register and he appears on neather.

 

Missing from the paperwork they left behind was the first sheet of the walking possession details ie that which included the list of good seized, but page 2 with the enforcement officers name, signiature and contact number was.

 

He entered a small sun room, but not through the actual back door of the house.

 

Hope this helps and once again many thanks for your interest in this

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the bailiffs forum.

[hatesdebt]

This sounds pretty suspect. Do they not need both a signed court warrant AND police attendance to force entry??

 

Not only that, but no walking possession and the sheriffs fee's don't seem right either.

Hope you get some answers on this one........

 

Seems the police are also talking their usual rubbish as well.

If the bailiffs have not followed correct procedure, then this is a criminal matter, as it's breaking and entering.

Edited June 21, 2011 by hatesdebt

[ploddertom]

Many thanks for the reply

Yes, we're in the UK (England)

The outstanding sum is for a service (advertising space) for a buisiness we started that soon failed.

I agree that I owe a sum but I need to go through my records to confirm the amount. I did question the amount with the creditor.

A CCJ was obtained, a couple of letters were left at the door by the collection agents and I wrote to them outlining that I was aware of my rights and would not allow entry to the property.

the breakdown is;

Judgment debt - £613

Judgement costs - £60

Execution costs - £50

Intrest - £30

Sheriff's Fees - £1010

VAT - £190

 

the firm is Sheriffs High Court Enforcement Ltd

 

Interestingly I checked the name of the enforcement officer on both the Certified Bailiffs register and the HCEO register and he appears on neather. They do not appear because the attending person is not a Certificated Bailiff nor are they the named HCEO on the Writ. Most nominated HCEOs delegate their work for others to do.

 

Missing from the paperwork they left behind was the first sheet of the walking possession details ie that which included the list of good seized, but page 2 with the enforcement officers name, signiature and contact number was.

 

He entered a small sun room, but not through the actual back door of the house. Was there an unlocked door or window?

 

Hope this helps and once again many thanks for your interest in this

 

PT

[mortyarty]

Many thanks for thanks for getting in touch

 

"He entered a small sun room, but not through the actual back door of the house. Was there an unlocked door or window? "- All windows were closed and secured but not locked - I've tried and they can't open from the outside, the door had a sliding bolt arrangement, the bolt end had been damaged and the bit the bolt slides into had come away having being forced. I fitted the bolt when I first ran into finantial difficulties and had a visit from the bailiff and have always kept it locked as we very rarely used it, indeed several hundred books were stacked in front of this door and these were scattered all over the floor. I photographed everything, including the damaged bolt and did a video of the room.

 

"Interestingly I checked the name of the enforcement officer on both the Certified Bailiffs register and the HCEO register and he appears on neather. They do not appear because the attending person is not a certificated Bailiff nor are they the named HCEO on the Writ. Most nominated HCEOs delegate their work for others to do." - many thanks for this - it would seem logical that if they are nominated individuals they shouldn't have the same powers, particularly for trying to gain entry (fair enough I suppose if they are just delivering paperwork) do you know of where I can search for the details of the regulation or implications of delecation of powers and who needs to authorise or supervise it?

 

Many thanks

[hatesdebt]

Forget about whether he was certified or not for the moment. Refer to post #5.

As far as I can see, he had no legal right to force entry in the first place.

[ploddertom]

http://www.hceoa.org.uk/ - look under the Regulatory Information heading.

 

HCEOs must gain peaceful entry to residential premises - same as a Bailiff - but is also allowed to force entry to any detached building within the boundaries - garage, greenhouse, garden shed etc - if he believes it may contain goods to help satisfy the debt. For business premises he is allowed to force entry at any time providing it is not attached to your residential accomodation.

 

PT

[hatesdebt]

Thanks Plod,

 

But it seems like the sunroom which they broke into is part of the main property, so I still think it was illegal entry.

[mortyarty]

Yes, the sunroom is attached to the main body of the house.

The reason I'm interested in the certification part is to have all the info and implications of the action before I approach the police again and/or go down the formal complaint route.

I'm off to court today to submit a form n245 which, from reading about this a bit, would seem to be an immediate course of action, providing a bit of a 'stay of excecution'. As I mentioned in the first post the funds to pay all of our debts will be available in around a month. I intend to pay the creditor directly and not through the bailiff as I'm fairly certain that I am entitled to do this.

Thanks one again for all your input on this

[mortyarty]

Not sure if I can do it on here, but would it be possable to post a photo of the point of entry so that you can all see what was done?

[cerberusalert]

You can upload it in a zip or pdf.

 

How to upload a PDF or ZIP file:

 

Scan the required letters/agreements/sheets as a jpeg picture file.

 

Remove all personal info inc barcodes etc using paint but leave all figures and dates.

 

Use one of the many free online pdf converter websites to convert the image to PDF format or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that, open a new msg box on your thread;

 

click 'go advanced' below the msg box

click 'manage attachments' below that box

click the 'add files' button on the top right

click 'select files',

 

Navigate to your file on your pc

 

click 'upload files'

 

You can set where it goes in the post by hitting 'insert inline'.

 

click the 'reply' button.

[ploddertom]

I'm off to court today to submit a form n245 which, from reading about this a bit, would seem to be an immediate course of action, providing a bit of a 'stay of excecution'.

 

A Stay of Execution is applied for on Form N244

 

PT

[mortyarty]

The following are the photo's of the point of entry

 

 

Four different views - one of the bolt, one looking towards the door (it's only a half size door - morelike an access hatch!), one looking away from the position of the door showing the scattering of the books and one looking from above at the door. Bear in mind that this room is regularly used to access the washing machine, and when we tried to get into it after the HCEO visit we couldn't open our back door to get into the washing machine room without much pushing to get past the displaced books.

[mortyarty]

sorry, uploaded the same image twice, but you should get the idea!

[ploddertom]

Here's some help for your N244

 

N244 Form:

 

Name of Court - where CCJ was awarded

Claim No - CCJ number

Warrant No - leave blank

Claimants Name - name of Claimant as entered on CCJ

Defendants Name - name of Defendant as entered on CCJ

Date - when you filled this in

Q1 - put your name in here

Q2 - tick relevant box

Q3 - a brief description - you are applying for Set Aside because you never knew you had a CCJ until a High Court Enforcement Officer arrived. If applicable ask for case to be transferred to local Court. If necessary also ask for Stay of Execution

Q4 - tick No

Q5 - tick at a hearing

Q6 - leave blank

Q7 - leave blank unless relevant

Q8 - District Judge

Q9 - Claimant & Defendant

Q10 - needs expansion of Q3 - better done on sheet(s) of paper with each point bulletted. Remember to copy of Statement of Truth on to last sheet & sign + date. Tick statement of case on form and again sign + date

Q11 - fill your details in

 

Send form to Court where CCJ was awarded with appropriate fee.

 

Claimant is entitled to oppose your application but in most cases this can be disregarded.

 

The only other thing to bear in mind here is that the Stay is the most important application to make. In many cases it is easier to take the forms to Court personally & preferably on a morning. Explain the urgency of the Stay application and usually a "spare" Judge can be found who will be able to hear your Stay application immediately. If successfull you must then inform the HCEO company ASAP giving Court name, Judge & date. When the paperwork comes through you should then send them a copy ASAP. In my view you are better informing all parties yourself rather than relying on others.

 

PT

[mortyarty]

Many thanks for all of that advice, very much appreciated.

I've printed off the N244 and I'm gathering together all documentation that I can find which may have a bearing on the case ready to take to the court, which will now have to be first thing in the morning when I can arrange childcare and transport.

As well as details of this warrent and debt, I can include evidence of imminent availabilty of funds (waiting for completion on our house which has now sold with a little equity - hugh sigh of relief etc etc!)

Do you think that I should take along a copy of the photo's that I have posted here or will that have no bearing on the case?

Do I need to include additional personal facts eg partner currently 6 months pregnant & naturally very distressed.

All of your advice has been really valuable, thank's.

[mortyarty]

re post 17

"Q3 - a brief description - you are applying for Set Aside because you never knew you had a CCJ until a High Court Enforcement Officer arrived. If applicable ask for case to be transferred to local Court. If necessary also ask for Stay of Execution"

I knew there was a CCJ and acknowledged the debt in writing, but have been unable to pay any of it through really pressing hardship over the last year.

[ploddertom]

re post 17

"Q3 - a brief description - you are applying for Set Aside because you never knew you had a CCJ until a High Court Enforcement Officer arrived. If applicable ask for case to be transferred to local Court. If necessary also ask for Stay of Execution"

I knew there was a CCJ and acknowledged the debt in writing, but have been unable to pay any of it through really pressing hardship over the last year.

 

OK scrap that bit, and just apply for the Stay but you do need grounds for this. Most usually because you cannot afford the fees charged or pending determination of another application. The only other application you can probably make would be for a Variation Order where you can ask to pay in instalments - this is done on Form N245 and you have to submit I & E but is generally a simple process. However you have to remember you will have 2 Court fees to pay unless you are on a low wage or certain Benefits in which case you will need Form EX160 for Fee Remission.

 

PT

[Ell-enn]

If this has been moved up from County Court to High Court for enforcement is there not a different procedure for asking for the warrant to be suspended. Might be worth ringing the court and asking.

[ploddertom]

If this has been moved up from County Court to High Court for enforcement is there not a different procedure for asking for the warrant to be suspended. Might be worth ringing the court and asking.

 

Only Enforcement has been moved up to the High Court any applications and/or other queries are still dealt with in the County Court so Form N244 still applies.

 

PT

[mortyarty]

Many thanks for raising the point Ell-enn, and for answering ot Ploddertom. I've just checked and confirmed that this is correct. I think I'll take both n244 and n245 along ready filled in tomorrow so both avenues are covered and either one submitted.

Am I correct in my belief that once one of the above forms has been submitted that pending bailiff action must be put on hold.?

[Ell-enn]

If you use the N245 (application to suspend warrant) it will cost £40 - this will suspend bailiff action until the judge has looked at your application and made a decision - if you send appropriate proof that you will have the funds to clear the debt then you shouldn't have any trouble in getting the warrant suspended. l if you use the N244 (application for a hearing) it will be £80 and you will have to attend a hearing.

[ploddertom]

If you use the N245 (application to suspend warrant) it will cost £40 - this will suspend bailiff action until the judge has looked at your application and made a decision - if you send appropriate proof that you will have the funds to clear the debt then you shouldn't have any trouble in getting the warrant suspended. l if you use the N244 (application for a hearing) it will be £80 and you will have to attend a hearing.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the N245 only suspends a Warrant of Execution - that issued to the Court Bailiff, for HCEO you need a Stay of Execution and that is done on N244.

 

PT