neighbour from hell....URGENT

[rudy691]

recently moved to council house (in March). never had problems with my next door, although she made a complaint to the housing association about me standing outside with my mate talking at about 1am.

so I thought they're decent people, so we've tried to be quiet. he even approached me couple of days after we've moved in saying that he doesnt drink, doesnt smoke and likes peace. before we moved in he phoned up council saying that they better put some decent people in that house. from what I see it is a guy, a women lives there too and apparently that guys daughter. every time there daughter comes home at about 10pm it's a massive argument, swearing, shouting, dogs barking (they have 2 german sheppards). it doesnt happen eveyr day but every now and then. i did phone up housing association reporting 2 or 3 incidents, so they've send me the forms to fill in the date and dewscription of incidents, but i didnt send it back as I though i'll give them another chance.

and it was peacefull for about 2 weeks, but last night it started all over again at about 11pm. at about 12.45am i did call the police but nobody showed up actually. everything went quiet at 2.45am but at 3.30am police decided to finally show up after 3 hours and started banging on there doors. after the police left they've started all over again. she even went outside and started shouting at my window that it's my fault that police came over, she was calling names me and my family (we have a 2 year old son and a newborn 1 week old baby). what worries me is that the guy came out and said that I've crossed the line and he 'will sort me out now'....i really dont know what to do now. if i phone housing association they will want to start all the complaints procedure and will contact them again, im not sure what will that guy do. I know he's got 2 sons in their 30's that live near. I really dont fancy getting beaten up...

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the residential forum.

[Ed999]

My comments apply only if the premises are entirely within England and Wales, and only if you were granted a shorthold tenancy (under which you - and your spouse/partner/children, if any - had exclusive use of a seperate dwelling, which was not shared with another tenant nor with the landlord), and only if you were over 18 years of age when the tenancy was granted.

 

This posting is supplemental to the information in this forum's "sticky" threads and is NOT to be read in isolation.

 

 

Bear in mind that if you are a shorthold tenant, you can be evicted from the premises by simply being given 2 months notice, in writing, taking effect after the initial six months ends (expiring on the last day of a rent period). No reason has to be given. Where a dispute arises, concerning any matter, the landlord can simply end the tenancy in that way.

 

 

Unless your tenancy agreement says otherwise, the landlord is NOT responsible for any actions of third parties such as neighbours.

 

Therefore if there is intimidation, not specifically related to your tenancy, go to the police and swear out a criminal complaint of threatening and abusive behaviour.

 

Alternatively, see a Solicitor for advice as to whether you might be able to sue for compensation under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

Alternatively, where a non-tenancy issue arises you may need to give notice to terminate your tenancy and move.

 

 

If no fixed term was agreed, or it has ended, a periodic tenancy arises (with a period of one week or one month, depending whether rent is paid weekly or monthly). To end a periodic tenancy the tenant must give one month's notice in writing, expiring on the last day of a rent period (but if the tenancy agreement requires a longer period of notice, the tenant must give the period of notice required by the agreement); and this notice can even end the tenancy within the first 6 months.

 

Where the common law requires a longer period of notice, the common law prevails. At common law, to end a periodic tenancy one period's notice must be given, in writing, expiring on the last day of a rent period: so if the rent is payable every 2 months, then not less than 2 months notice must be given; or if the rent is due quarterly, then at least one quarter's notice must be given; and so on.

 

If you move out without ending the tenancy, the rent will continue to run and you can be sued for non-payment.

[rudy691]

ok, I'm not sure i've understand ANY of what you just wrote...

 

these are not privately rented houses, these are housing association houses

[unclebulgaria67]

ok, I'm not sure i've understand ANY of what you just wrote...

 

these are not privately rented houses, these are housing association houses

 

If you have been subject to threats, inform both the police and the local council authority housing people.

 

If you can and want to, perhaps the housing people could move you somewhere else. Sounds like the neighbours are a problem family, which the housing people were probably aware of before they organised for you to live there.

[rudy691]

i don't fancy moving as we've just settled in. and to be honest - I can't even afford to move again, as my still in debt after the last move and decorating...like I said before - i don't really want to get beaten up by his sons. im just trying to live my life

[unclebulgaria67]

i don't fancy moving as we've just settled in. and to be honest - I can't even afford to move again, as my still in debt after the last move and decorating...like I said before - i don't really want to get beaten up by his sons. im just trying to live my life

 

In this situation,bearing in mind your young children, I would have thought safety would come first. Reporting to the Police should be your next step, then the local housing association. Local housing associations have real problems moving problem families in their area and if you don't move, you could have this situation for many months or years. I am not sure my nerves could take it.

[ashmk]

Ed999 coping and pasting again.

[Andy77799]

Threatened! Call police as said above and make sure that something is done. Then it is documented. I guess then if he does punch you then I suppose it is premeditated.

 

Hate ****hole families like that, no thought for others.

[rudy691]

im not worried about him starting a fight, he's fat **** in the 50's most likely. it's the sons im worried about....they don't live in the same house, but they live somewhere near, as I saw them visiting

[Andy77799]

Yeah, INFORM police that you have been threatened and try to remember the time and write notes of what he said.

[stu007]

Hi rudy691

 

sorry to hear about your problem but please do inform the Police and the Housing Association, also keep a record of all dates, times, who you spoke to and incident.

 

As for your Housing Association they should be acting more pro active but they can only do this on information given to them. (Try to arrange a meeting with a Housing Officer in private at there offices, remember anything you say to them must be treated as confidential and for clarity inform them you dont want housing officers to visit your property or your name mentioned to said tenant due to his 'Threatening Behaviour')

 

The Housing Association is powerless to act if it does not know of the ongoing problem even when you call the Police keep a record and pass the information onto the Housing Association

 

Also contact your local police station and ask if you can speak to the local community officers whether its on the phone or inperson about your concerns and issues.

 

I do understand how u feel as some years ago i went through 2 years of similar but in the end they were evicted, recieved asbo, breached asbo, now resident in HMP.

 

it all stems down to evidence in my circumstances i put up cctv what a wonderous thing it is to be caught in full view of a camera recording everything and them denying everything until shown cctv footage. (Please bear in mind if you do decide to do this you may need to ask the Housing Associations permission but no harm either in also asking the polices advice)

 

hope this helps

[Andy77799]

I put up cctv and the police love it when a neighbour complained about them and called police!!!

 

Private cctv so I didnt need the sign my neighbour reckoned I did and don`t need to inform data pro etc.

 

certainly do as above though.

[Conniff]

Have a go here Rudy, they specialise in this and have a forum as well - http://www.nfh.org.uk/

[stu007]

Hi again

 

Yes CCTV or covert cameras are great, and yes the police love it but please BECAREFUL!!!

 

As rudy691 Is with a Housing Association and NOT Private Housing, they would have to firstly check there tenancy agreement with the Housing Association but also as its rented accomodation from the Housing Association there Policy on installing/using cctv whtether it be obvious cctv or covert cctv.

 

This way is better in writing as the Tenant then has a letter stating they have permission with no repercusions on tenant but the Housing Assocation if any complaints as they gave permission.

 

Yes Conniff the site http://www.nfh.org.uk/ does give information on CCTV but it does not give the legal position on CCTV as there are 'Data Protection' issues, 'Human Rights' issues, 'Invasion of Privisy' issues, 'Harrassement' issues etc. Which for rudy691 to be on the correct legal stance with CCTV would really need to ask the Housing Associations Permission in writing to get permission. Then once response from Housing Association giving permission the said tenant is covered if there are any issues concerning CCTV.

 

The only Difference is after said tenants complaints the Housing Association install CCTV/Covert CCTV then the tenant is not responsible but the Housing Association

[Ed999]

ok, I'm not sure i've understand ANY of what you just wrote...

 

these are not privately rented houses, these are housing association houses

 

 

Yes, I noticed that you said both that you have a Council tenancy and that you have a Housing Association tenancy. I didn't know what you meant by that, but it wasn't important, because, firstly, both a Council and a Housing Association will grant a standard Assured tenancy; and, secondly, because this is NOT a tenancy issue.

 

You aren't in dispute with your landlord, so this isn't a tenancy dispute. It's an ordinary civil dispute.

 

Your options are as I outlined: swear out a complaint of threatening and abusive conduct with the police; or see a solicitor to sue for an injunction for harassment and for compensation (legal aid might be available); or ask the Housing Association to move you.

 

No, I didn't copy-and-paste this suggestion from somewhere else.

[spamela020]

Hi Rudy,

I think that you definately need to inform the housing association, but for your immediate threat of being beaten up, I would suggest trying to talk to your neighbour and explain that due to the shouting, you were worried about them and thought there could be some sort of trouble in their house that they needed help from the police with. Explain that you called the police during the argument and that you did not know that they would bang on the door at a ridiculous hour! Diplomacy is sometimes the best course of action, and can smooth things over for the time being until you move (or they do!)

[bedlington83]

Yes, I noticed that you said both that you have a Council tenancy and that you have a Housing Association tenancy

 

No, I didn't copy-and-paste this suggestion from somewhere else.

Why then did you contribute a load of unhelpful spam about shorthold and common law tenancies?

[Ed999]

If no fixed term was agreed, or it has ended, a periodic tenancy arises (with a period of one week or one month, depending whether rent is paid weekly or monthly). To end a periodic tenancy the tenant must give one month's notice in writing, expiring on the last day of a rent period (but if the tenancy agreement requires a longer period of notice, the tenant must give the period of notice required by the agreement); and this notice can even end the tenancy within the first 6 months.

 

Where the common law requires a longer period of notice, the common law prevails. At common law, to end a periodic tenancy one period's notice must be given, in writing, expiring on the last day of a rent period: so if the rent is payable every 2 months, then not less than 2 months notice must be given; or if the rent is due quarterly, then at least one quarter's notice must be given; and so on.

 

If you move out without ending the tenancy, the rent will continue to run and you can be sued for non-payment.

 

 

This is not applicable only to a shorthold tenancy, but to any periodic tenancy arising under the Housing Act 1988, whether assured or assured shorthold.

 

The Act has nothing to say about a notice given by a tenant; thus the common law rules for terminating a tenancy continue to apply to a notice of termination given by a tenant.

[45002]

Why then did you contribute a load of unhelpful spam about shorthold and common law tenancies?

 

Maybe some kind attempt by Ed999 to get into Guinness book of world records :shock:for the most !

[siennasmummy]

My mother-in-law had a similar problem. The police won't do much as it's "down to the council" apparently but now that threats are involved, they can't try to fob you off. Report every single thing that happens and it will build up the list of complaints until the council HAVE to get them evicted or the police end up arresting them.

If you can't get cctv, have you got a phone that can voice record? If ever they knock at your door or you see them outside, put this on and then you can record any threats they make. Just don't make any back to them!

So every row, every noisy night, every threat, report, report, report!! Good luck.

[pentiumofborg]

If there is no evidence the Council will do nothing. I had a similar problem some time ago but I made video recordings of the threats etc and sent them to the Council. I also got sworn statements from my other neighbours. Court action and eviction is imminent.

[Dragons Dennis]

I would make a formal complaint to the police about the threats, but also about the situation THEY caused by turning up at 3am and waking the neighbour up with your complaint. Had they turned up within a reasonable time, they would have heard and been able to deal with the noise. Instead they arrived hours later when everyone was asleep and chose to wake them up????? Policing at its worst.

 

As for the neighbours, my advice? MOVE. Do not let this become a real problem. I had a similar situation years ago. We moved into a flat and within days all the windows had been smashed and our two cars vanndalised. We moved and although expensive, it was the best deciision we ever made.

[Snorkerz]

Why then did you contribute a load of unhelpful spam about shorthold and common law tenancies?

I happen to believe that Ed999s post was cut and pasted, but from his own work. Nothing wrong with that, it ensures that he can give legally accurate and properly researched responses with the minimum of effort - where I come from that is called efficiency.

 

It is true that sometimes these responses contain extraneous information, or may not perfectly match the posters exact situation, requiring the poster to actually think and see where the parallels lie - though I have noticed that Ed999 often adds specific comments to cover this. If not, there are plenty of posters on here who can fill those gaps once the groundwork has been laid by Ed999. I am not sure I can see any spam in the post - can you? Would you like an accurate and properly researched definition?

[jackieandwayne]

Well done Spamlam020. You both either have assured or secure tenancies. There is a lot both a HA and the Council can and will do to combat ASB. You can of course be evicted for ASB, however, because of the nature of your tenancies, this can involve an actual court trial albeit county court. Not nice for anyone. It will certainly involve both of you keeping notes about each other over the months, both of you causing misery to the other, taking pot shots at each other. Yes, next door may eventually be evicted. Then who are you going to have next? Better tame the beast you already have I think.

 

You both have a home you want to keep, you are neighbours, you have to live together. You got off to a bad start, whoever started it.

 

So, why don't you ask the Housing Officer to sit down with both families in a neutral setting, iron all the creases out, and start again? They should be able to offer mediation privately to you if they cannot do it themselves.

 

You never know you see, the most ornery critters turn out to make the truest allies sometimes; and if they don't its better keeping them close to you!

 

I hope you get it sorted out, not nice having upsets like this, especially not with a new baby. All the more reason to try this appraoch first, if that goes belly up, then you'll have to fire up the landlord to go in for the kill.