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Hi,

 

Hope someone can give advice on this.

 

I received court papers from northampton for a very old current account debt (2005) and intend to defend full ammount.

 

I have sent the claimants solicitors a CPR 31.14 request

 

Could anyone advise as the next step to take if claiment fails to comply with my CPR 31.14 request

 

They confirmed they had recieved my letter on the 7th June, so 7 days takes it to tomorrow the 14th

 

My defence has to be filed for the 28th

 

Many Thanks

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If you have not acknowledged or paid anything toward this debt in the last 6 years, it is possible that it could be statute barred.

 

If no response is received in respect of your CPR31.14 then you can ask for more time under CPR15.5. The Claimant has to agree to this in writing and it can be for a period of up to 28 days.

 

If they agree, then it will be YOUR responsibility to inform the court in writing of the new time for filing a defence.

 

If they dont agree, then you can apply to the court for more time using form N244

 

I have popped a couple of links below for more information.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/parts/part15.htm

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255329-CPR-part-18-vs-CPR-31.14-Confused-well-read-here

 

If you have any queries, just yell :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

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Thankyou for your replys,

 

The default was July 2005 listed on my credit file so not quite 6 years.

 

I did ask for a time extention within my cpr 31.14 request but they did not mention this subject in their letter to me?

 

The letter they sent to me:

 

We confirm we have requested the documents you have asked for copies for from our clients and we will endeavour to respond to you as quickly as possible.

 

So I take that as they do not agree to a time extention?

 

Really dont know the best way to go about this..

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Hi Morris and welcome to Cag

 

As this is an Overdraft I would assume that it contains unfair charges within the summons amount, are you in possession of

all your statements or have you specified them within the CPR 31.14? If not you could request them vis a vis CPR 18.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi Andy,

 

I only specified the agreement, the assignment and default notice in my CPR 31.14

 

Guessing I should have added statements to this as not in possesion of these?

 

I'm worried about time limits at the moment as away all next week and only have until the 28th to either submit a defence or apply for a time extention via the N244 form (is there a template for this?)

 

Many Thanks

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I personally would take the CPR 15.5 route if you are short of time and then get a CPR 18 off and specify statements.

As the account been assigned? Who is the Claimant ? Roughly how much is in question (ball park).

 

There wont be any default notice as this is an overdraft you should have received " Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA.

This would be from the OC and can only be issued by them not a DCA.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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CPR 18 request:-

 

 

CLAIM NUMBER: *******

 

In the XXXXXXX county courtlink3.giflink3.gif

Between:

 

 

 

[Claimant]

Claimant

 

 

 

-And-

 

 

 

Defendant

 

 

 

_______________________

 

 

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION AND

 

 

 

CLARIFICATION UNDER CPR part 18link3.gif.1 & Pre Action Conduct

_________________________ ___

 

DATE OF SERVICE: [date sent]

 

To enable me to file a fully particularised defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the accounts cited in the Claimant's Particulars of Claim to be provided forthwith. The information must be furnished by the XX XXX XXXX ( Allow10 days }, which gives you seven working days to provide what has been requested. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, and an order enforcing your compliance will be applied for forthwith.

 

1. In respect of my alleged indebtedness to the Claimant please provide:

 

a) True copies of the original signed agreements between myself and XXXXXXX, as referred to in paragraphs X ) and X) of the particulars of claim.

(If not referred to remove)

 

b) All documents relating to any insurance added to the accounts, including the insurance contract and terms and conditionslink3.giflink3.gif, date it was added and deleted (if applicable). (Not Current AC/OD)

 

c) A true copy of any Default Notice/s issued in respect of these accounts, as referred to paragraph X) of the particulars of claim; (If referred if not remove)

 

2. I believe my alleged indebtedness to the Claimant to be comprised by Unfair Charges which amount to contractual penalties contrary to common law and statute. Therefore, in order that I may prepare and file a fully particularised counterclaim to the Claimant's action, please provide:

 

a) Full terms and conditionslink3.giflink3.gif and charges tariffs relating to each account, from the date when the accounts were opened and including any revisions or amendments to the present day.

 

b) A full and comprehensive statement history for the account, providing each and every statement sheet from the time the accounts were opened until the present day.

 

c) Specific details of all fees/charges levied by XXXXXXX in respect of these accounts and a detailed Breakdownlink3.gif of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

d) Where there has been any event in my accounts' history which has required manual intervention by any member of XXXXX, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my accounts held with XXXXXX. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I look forward to your response in this matter/ failure to respond will be notified to the Court and a application made to disclose.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Mr Defendant.

 

 

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The default was July 2005 listed on my credit file so not quite 6 years.

 

If it's listed as July 2005 on your credit file it stands a good chance the cause of action occured before then. You need to ascertain when the last payment you made was, when the last acknowledgment in writing you made was and very importantly when the cause of action accrued.

 

Do not accept the default date on the files at the CRA as being representative of when the cause of action arose as banks leave accounts open for piling on charges for weeks and months after this.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Hi Andy,

 

Thanks again for you reply.

 

The Claimant is Arrow Global, they state it was assigned to them. The claim is for approx £1600

 

I have asked for extended time within the CPR 31.14, But will I need to send another letter asking for this seperately for them to comply?

 

Also do I send the CPR part 18 to Arrow Global or the original Lender?

 

Many Thanks

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Hi Jasper,

 

Thankyou for your reply.

 

So this maybe SB?

 

I have never acknowledged in writing and am almost 99% sure that no payments were made since or within 3 months before the date listed on my credit file.

 

Would a SB defence be the way forward in this case?

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If you can confirm it is SB that would be ideal, if not you need to send the CPR to Arrow has they now profess to

be the owner and litigate. Who was the OC out of interest then i will know whats to follow.

 

Andy

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I cannot 100% confirm it is SB so guessing it would be risky to claim this?

 

Will I have time to complete Section 18 if the claimant has not agreed to extended time?

 

Many Thanks

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Well its allowing 10 days so inline with your CPR 31.14 subject to the date of your defence submission.

What date is on the summons?

Morris if you can PM the name of the OC it would be useful.

 

Andy

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I cannot 100% confirm it is SB so guessing it would be risky to claim this?

 

 

 

You can aver it to be SB'ed and put the claimant to strict proof that it is not:

Obviously just include this as a further point in your defence if not 100% sure but if you ask them in the Part 18 for the dates of your last acknowledgment and the date the cause of action arose you should be on the way although I suspect they will just give you the default date unless you specify the cause as being something different.

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As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Ok Morris I would be contacting them to extend considering your circumstances.By all means as Jasper states include his comment in your CPR 18.

If you are going to request extension ( and I advocate you do) dont send the CPR 18 until they consent and confirmed in writing to you.

You can phone them to request this and ask them to email or fax conformation to speed matters.Once you are in receipt then copy Court and this will give us a little more breathing space.

 

Ok for now?

 

Let me know what transpires.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

 

15.5

 

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

 

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

 

 

 

I would respectfully request that we agree an extension of time pursuant to CPR 15.5 until 4 pm on 2011 to file my defence. If we cannot agree then I will have no option but to apply to the court for an order allowing me the additional time and wasted costs as a result. You will be aware that the Court is likely to grant me the extension as a refusal to do so would prejudice me unfairly as I am a litigant in person.

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Normally your request is made with the CPR 31.14 (which I assume you have had no response) so because of the time delay

I would advocate ringing them in this instance and once agreed (and they cant refuse) request email or fax response.(You really are short of time to write to them and the Claimant will drag it naturally) Once you have this attach it to your letter and simply state what you have agreed and send to Northampton ASAP.Keep checking that they have received it and confirm your new defence submission date.

 

Once this is in place CPR 18 time.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Because you requested it within your CPR 31.14 and they have neither responded to your requests for either

then its a imperative you ring them no use writing again.Ask for the person dealing with claim number xxxxxxx

Have your copy of the 31.14 to hand and what i have told you above and state

 

" I would respectfully request that we agree an extension of time pursuant to CPR 15.5 until 4 pm on xx July 2011 to file my defence. If we cannot agree then I will have no option but to apply to the court for an order allowing me the additional time and wasted costs as a result. You will be aware that the Court is likely to grant me the extension as a refusal to do so would prejudice me unfairly as I am a litigant in person.

 

That will get their attention and insist they confirm it ASAP if they refuse you make application as threatened above but I very much doubt they will.

State that you know they have received your request (Recorded del signed for tracked etc .....)

 

It may seem daunting having to ring Sols but some are quite human ( even if ignorant):wink:

 

Regards

Andy

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Going back to ascertaining when exactly the cause of action arose:

IMO as this is an overdraft then the first sign of the breach might be indicated by you exceeding your overdraft limit and failing upon request to bring your ac back within your limit. I suggest that this will be highlighted on your bank statement as the first of a what's likely to be a series of penalty charges. Your last acknowledgment would be the last payment you made after the charges for the breach were first applied.

If the claimant were to aver that the cause of action accrued on the default date then they are also saying that the breach of the terms and conditions of the account did not occur until the default date.

Ergo any penalty charges applied to the account prior to default are unlawful as by their own argument no breach had at that time occured.

 

The claimants cause of action arose when you breached the terms of the account, not when it was defaulted you need to be very clear on the difference as a successful defence might rest on this single point as it's very likely that several weeks or months passed between the two dates.

The default date might have been created by the debt purchaser and often corresponds to the date they purchase the account. It's also just as likely to be an arbitary date when the OC makes the commercial decision to write down the account. What it's very unlikely to be is the date the cause of action arose.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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Update on this:

 

I have called the claimants solicitors twice today to get this extention agreed. They have told me they have reqested this from their client for approval but refuse to provide me with an answer today and that it will not be for a couple of days.. Sounded as though they were being awkward with me. Really dont know the best way of dealing with this now. I found out I have until the 29th to file my defence.

 

Many Thanks

Edited by JimBobb
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Who is Jimbob??????

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