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My endless Quest again Northern Rock


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why on earth would I put everything on this website - i dont even know who you are!!!!

 

do you want an account number, name, address sort code??

 

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

There is no need whatsoever for such a rude post. If you don't like the forum, there are others.

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@ emanevs

 

CAG always asks ALL our Caggers to remain ANONYMOUS on CAG at all times so you cannot be identified.

 

No one on your thread has ever asked you to post any personal information as CAG would not allow this.

 

What you have been ask for is background information with a timeline so that those assisting in your thread will be in a better position to give you the correct advice to assist YOU.

 

I fully appreciate you may be angry at your treatment by NRAM but please also remember that CAG and those caggers offering advice are doing so FREELY as this is a SELF HELP FORUM.

 

So could we please have more background information with a timeline (without any personal identifying information)

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everyone is quick to reply to my rant....not so quick on my discussion.

'All monies' securities are quite common emanevs and they are enforceable. A previous charge can be used as security for a subsequent debt if the charge document allows for that. In the case of land there would normally be a note on the land register to that effect.

 

 

It is difficult to follow why the unilateral notice or lien is relevant. I think we'd need to know what has been registered.

 

 

Also difficult to follow the circumstances of the BR.

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thanks for the post - there is no all monies charge. The charge document did not allow for that, and there is no note on the land register.

 

they have nothing registered, they discharged their only charge as it was paid off.

 

the relevance of the BR is that S382 IA 1986 a bankruptcy debt is any debt or liability.

 

as they have no security, and I went BR, that is the end of the matter as far as I am concerned?

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A charge survives bankruptcy in relation to the charged asset only. For example, if you charged your house, the lender would remain entitled to the benefit of that charge despite the bankruptcy.

 

However if the charge was fully discharged prior to bankruptcy, then it is very difficult to see how they could claim anything post-bankruptcy.

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A charge survives bankruptcy in relation to the charged asset only. For example, if you charged your house, the lender would remain entitled to the benefit of that charge despite the bankruptcy.

 

However if the charge was fully discharged prior to bankruptcy, then it is very difficult to see how they could claim anything post-bankruptcy.

 

They had a charge when the property was purchased. This was then redeemed. I took out a new loan that was unsecured against the property, and this became an unsecured BR debt.

 

They are now trying to reinstate the redeemed charge for the unsecure loan (post BR) and say that this original security secured the new loan.

 

All this is post BR.

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It is very difficult to see how they could succeed on that, assuming that the terms of the charge do not cover subsequent debts and that the charge was removed from the land registry.

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Going slightly off topic but not entirely,

 

How is the amount of redress arrived at ? I am assuming that for the period that the agreement was not compliant ( apologies if this is not the correct term ) that the loan will be recalculated allowing for just the capital repayments against the starting balance for that term, effectively reducing the balance by the "actual"amount being paid and not incorporating any interest added monthly.

 

In simple terms for ease of reference,if say the period in dispute is 6 years and payments were £100 per month with the starting balance of £30,000, then the recalculated balance following 72 payments ( 6 yrs at 12 payments per year of £100 p/m) should be £30000 - £7200 = £22800 it would be after this period that interest can then be applied so from balance £22800 onwards, NRAM can then incorporate interest offset against the capital repayments and the balance would then reduce at a slower rate as a proportion of the capital being paid is being offset by the now correctly applied interest ?

 

Is this how the redress will be issued because if they just refund the interest which was technically not due for payment this figure will not be as much due back? For instance 72 x amount of interest refunded is less than recalculating the loan from scratch minus any application of interest( for the disputed period ) as the running total of the balance when 1st incorporating the interest will always be greater than the balance if just capital repayments. ie £30000 minus monthly capital but plus interest over 6 years with 6 years interest then refunded would have a greater due balance than £30000 minus purely monthly capital repayments over 6 years ( effectively being the refunded interest due ) would have a smaller due balance as calculations did not include interest upon interest calculations. Apologies for over elaboration,

 

I just need to try and get this straight in my head when I ( inevitably ) go head to head with some office based person to review this when my letter eventually arrives ( This is despite previously having very aggressive people at NRAM originally telling me on more than 4 occasions when I challenged them when the original £25 k limit people were given refunds, that I had and would have no rights to the same recovery of interest and that documents were executed correctly and were just administration errors .....effectively "go away !"

 

If someone in the know regards these calculations could give some advice on my "assumptions" I would be most grateful. I am to say in the least disappointed however that it has not been ruled that redress will be given directly to us ( NRAM customers ) as opposed to paying the actual cash back, as I have had to lose out on money paid and not due to them , which indirectly has added to the situation that has affectively led to my DMP as those monies would have been used to effectively avoid this situation by paying other bills.

 

Look forward to any advices :)

Edited by citizenB
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I think its as previous posts.

 

The fact of the matter if Section 77A CCA 1974, section 6:

 

(6)Where this subsection applies in relation to a failure to give a statement under this section to the debtor—

(a)the creditor shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement during the period of non-compliance;

(b)the debtor shall have no liability to pay any sum of interest to the extent calculated by reference to the period of non-compliance or to any part of it; and

©the debtor shall have no liability to pay any default sum which (apart from this paragraph)—

(i)would have become payable during the period of non-compliance; or

(ii)would have become payable after the end of that period in connection with a breach of the agreement which occurs during that period (whether or not the breach continues after the end of that period).

 

SO, there is no enforcement during non compliance, and no liability to pay as above.

 

Any compensation I guess would be the repayment of these sums, plus statutory 8% interest.

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Jurisdiction means which court should hear the case. There is no question that the English courts have jurisdiction to decide the case rather than, for example, the French courts. You need to accept jurisdiction and defend in the usual way.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,

 

Please can anyone give some help on this, ALL WITH 1 LENDER:

 

1 lender scenario, all monies charge, (albeit not actually stated as one):

2004 - loan account number A given by lender.

2005 - loan account number A (above) paid off by SAME lender with SAME account number A

2006 - lender confirms 2005 loan A redeemed.

mid 2007 - Beneficial Interest in property transferred from us, as no equity.

late 2007 - Bankruptcy.

2014 - lender seeks subrogation to 2004

 

Is this practically and legally possible? Any case law would help as well!

 

I could understand the subrogation if there was more than 1 lender, but there is not.

 

Any help as always is gratefully received.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

I am confused. Please can someone assist?

 

Something tells me this is not as confusing as it appears!

 

The position:

I wanted to buy a new house, but had a house already with a mortgage on it.

 

I had to pay the old borrowings off (as part of te mortgage conditions), with a new mortgage on the new house.

 

The first house has its own mortgage deed, so did the second house, which I signed.

 

I had a mortgage advance on the new house in two parts. 1st Part was secured, 2nd Part was unsecured.

 

The 1st House had borrowings of £195k against it, the new mortgae was £197k, with a further £21k unsecured.

 

I paid off the 1st House borrowings with the new mortgage of £197k. A further £11k was used out of the unsecured loan to purchase the new house.

 

The combination of the secured and unsecured enabled me to buy the new house.

(also known as restricted and unrestricted credit).

 

A mortgage deed was signed for the secured only, but the mortgage company now says the mortgage deed secured ALL monies. The mortgage deed was not an all moneys charge.

 

I am totally baffled.

 

It appears to me, the mortgage is in fact unenforceable?

 

Any help to clear my mind would be most appreciated.

 

I have looked at various cases, including the onesbelow:

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2009/103.html&query="heath+v+southern+pacific"&method=boolean

 

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2014/52.html

 

Please can someone give me assitance?

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Hello people,

 

Northern Rock apparently register one mortgage deed and rely on this for all further mortgages and security for their unsecured loans. Apparently, if once a customer has one registered charge against their property they then rely on this for their security for any further lending.

 

In addition, they have mixed up their loans with "restricted use credit" and "unrestricted use credit", possibly creating an unenforceable mortgage. They are clearly not "all monies" charges.

 

Please can anyone share any experiences of this, and whether anyone has had more than one 'first' mortgage registered against their property by these people or NRAM plc?

 

I have a feeling they are not telling all what they need to....and it is all about to explode!!!!

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Unless it states it will or can do this in the original contract, I wouldn't have thought it was legal !

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Why does the site team keep moving my posts.

 

If they dont like what I post, I wont post. I will use another forum elsewhere.

 

Perhaps the site team in fact work for northern rock ******s....

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Is this peculiar to Northern Rock then ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Why does the site team keep moving my posts.

 

If they dont like what I post, I wont post. I will use another forum elsewhere.

 

Perhaps the site team in fact work for northern rock ******s....

 

The site do not work or have any bias in favour of any company

 

 

everytime I post, I get 20+ guests viewing....

 

hiding my posts makes me think there is something going on with this site.

 

No one is hiding your posts - they are simply being merged into the one thread. People get a little fed up having to trawl multiple threads in order to get a sense of what is going on.

 

It is also not a question of whether or not ST like your posts or not. I suspect they are just fed up with your continued bumping of threads and expectation of "immediate" response. Just because you have many guests or viewers does not mean that those will have any advice to offer. In fact you have implied before, if posters cannot post advice that will be of value to you.. not to post !!

 

All of us are volunteers, most have day jobs or other commitments and whilst they understand that posters become frustrated, however see no reason to identify themselves as targets for your bad hair day !! .

 

It is my understanding that you already post on other forums anyway :noidea:

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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