What can I do at the charge certificate stage?

[Claitero]

Hi all, again I was fine for many months until I received 6 tickets within a month... I then appealed to some and I went away for 6 weeks. Within this time I received rejections and charge certificates for these and the others.

I've got a ticket for yellow box which I appealed on the basis the traffic was moving when i entered, they replyed it was not...

For now I need to find out if I can still react to them all or need to sell my house to pay bailiff fees

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Have you posted about this before? I can't find posts by you, but that could be a problem with the system on CAG at the moment.

 

Who are the tickets from please?

 

My best, HB

[535boy]

depends on which bailiff company you would be dealing with.

Ok you challenged the tickets and they all came back,now dont wait till the bailiff knocks on your door,call the bailiff dealing with your tickets and inform them as of what happened and explain your financial situation and sign an arrangement or a walking possession[depends on what you can afford]. Now days bailiff goes through trainings and their major task is to collect unpaid monies in friendly and professional way.Be truthful as what you tell the bailiff as now days everything is computerized and he would find out if you lied about anything which will terminate the arrangement and thus you would have to pay everything in full then.

[nero12]

Hi mate -- are you the person with the disabled daughter

[Jamberson]

There are no bailiffs involved and no bailiff fees - these PCNs are at Charge Certificate stage, right?

 

If you received rejection notices and did not then pay or refer the cases to adjudication, then you're liable. You need to pay them. You've exhausted the appeals route. I can't see you have any option.

[Claitero]

Thanks all for your answers. Due to my work and personal matters I sometimes don't have access to the internet.

 

I read a note to post separate threads to separate cases so I'll do so from now on.

 

The ticket I feel most strongly about I received from Haringey Council in Highgate. There was two hours visitor voucher within two hours zone. I was present at the vehicle all the time while the parking attendant issued the ticket. The thing is he came, looked and went away and came back with a ticket. He never explained to me what was the problem. I wrote about this to the council and stated fact that in a two hours zone with two hours voucher time of antry is irrelevant (this was the issue I didn't know at the time). I received notice of rejection stating that time of entry is very important but not mentioning behaviour of the attendant. Last correspondence regarding this one is dated 17.05. I'll try to make my computer work and scan the letter if it's important.

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Jamberson]

The letter will tell you what your options are in terms of further appeals. Check what it says. If it was on May 17, it has almost certainly run out of time for the appeals route.

[lamma]

Have you had the Order for Recovery ?

[Claitero]

Actually I might have only received notice to owner, letter confirming my representation and at last the letter I mentioned. I cant make the scanner work to post it but will do best I can.

[Claitero]

Here is the email I sent to the council, how do you post pictures??

 

Dear Sirs

 

 

I am writing to you making representations to the above penalty charge notice. I am doing so because there was no contravention.

 

 

The visitor permit I displayed was for two hours and restriction in the area is two hours which makes time of parking irrelevant.

 

 

The parking attendant was seen by three witnesses including myself and informed about our presence. He passed the vehicle, went away and came back with a ready ticket. When asked about reasons he started laughing and did not explain reasons at all. He was behaving extremely rude all the time. As a proof of this I took a picture of him at the vehicle after which he became aggressive.

 

 

I would be grateful if you could consider these circumstances and cancel the Penalty Charge Notice . I do understand that the enforcements are required for the parking spaces to be available for residents as well as for safety reasons and always followed them without fail.

 

Best Regards

[Claitero]

We'll see if it works... Now the thing is I only saw the back of the page now There is another sheet explaining the ways of payment but I did not see the deadlines, does it mean I can't do anything??

 

Does it mean I can't post pictures before reaching 20 posts??

[Jamberson]

Don't know about posting pictures - but you need to first of all work out what documents you received and when. Get them together and put them in order. This will tell you what stage you are at with the charges. Every document will give you instructions on how to pay, or what you can do to further the appeal. Go by what it says on the most recent document you have.

[Claitero]

I sent a lame letter to Haringey council explaining that I never received NtO to which they replied sending... NtO Dated as follows:

Now the question is: since they rejected my informal representations is it clever sending the same letter again? I strongly feel the penalty is not justified, as I wrote before we were all present at the vehicle all the time and the ticket was written without our knowledge... Any suggestions?

[Claitero]

 

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[Jamberson]

You have to tell us what happened. The NTO says you had an invalid permit or voucher. Up above, you have mentioned not thinking the time of parking is relevant.

 

I can guess that you had to scratch the voucher with your time of arrival, but you didn't do that. Am I right? Is this what happened? Tell us!

[Claitero]

I was working in the area for a few days, a week to go. I had plenty visitor permits ready. I wrongly scratched the permit stating arrival at 1:00 am instead of 10:00. I've got the visitor permit in front of me and I think it was photographed by the warden. The idea is I had plenty of them. If the warden behaved as he was supposed to I could explain or scratch another one. It was just a human kind of mistake...

[nero12]

When you go formal with this You need to ge the contemporaneous notes the CEO made at the scene -- the photos and a copy of the traffic order for that area persuant to 6 to 18 of the traffic orders procedures 1996 so you can make a decent judgement as to where to go next.

 

Did they not respond to your informal appeal ??

 

Sorry i havt read all of this !

[Jamberson]

So you were in error. You didn't have a valid permit on display, because you scratched it wrong. The CEO was doing his job correctly.

 

You can try and find a technicality, like nero says, eg invalid or absent traffic order, or you can appeal by pleading a genuine accident.

[Claitero]

To what I understood some time ago they can't issue a ticket from hiding... That was supposed to be illegal. The warden is supposed to be there to keep the traffic and parking spaces, not to penalize you for whatever he can, am I wrong? As I remember the rod markings in the area were worn, can I go from there? I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

[Jamberson]

Yes you are wrong about the CEO. He is there to penalize you for whatever he can - ie, any parking contravention within his remit. That's his job.

 

If the markings are badly worn, that might get you somewhere. Look forward to seeing the pics.

[Claitero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Claitero]

My van was parked just behind the yellow MG car on the right.

 

 

Now the two pictures I took back then, unfortunately I didn't photograph the vehicle but I believe the council will provide these...

 

 

 

 

 

[Claitero]

Yes you are wrong about the CEO. He is there to penalize you for whatever he can - ie, any parking contravention within his remit. That's his job.

 

If the markings are badly worn, that might get you somewhere. Look forward to seeing the pics.

 

 

 

 

At some stage I heard they are not allowed to issue ticket from hiding and they have to give you chance to correct errors/put ticket. It used to be like this long ago when you could get a ticket on your way to ticket machine... Then the law was supposed to get changed?

[Jamberson]

They're supposed to allow observation time for certain situations - eg if you're in a pay & display bay, they are directed to allow a few minutes to see if you return. Hiding out of sight is probably not approved of by their employers, but at the end of the day, if you're in contravention they are employed to issue you with a PCN. Sorry!

 

I think the lines in the photo are probably clear enough to stand, by the way. They are worn, but still clear enough in my view.

[crem]

My van was parked just behind the yellow MG car on the right.

 

 

 

No way on earth a vehicle fits behind the yellow MG without contraveneing being outside the bay and obstructing the dropped kerb.