Jump to content


Ingeus


Raven1
 Share

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 1510 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I would not feign righteous indignation at anyone who engages in a bit of work to supplement a paltry income of £71.40 per week. On the other hand I would condemn most vehemently employers who pay such low wages that their employees have to still rely on benefits and food banks to survive.

 

Didn't we have a thread on this subject earlier in the year ?

If I recall correctly, it turned nasty and eventually got closed down....

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi

Yes I think we did.

My comment was not any sort of moral stance just one of common sense. We live in a country that are governed by laws and if we disagree we should do something about it. I also agree that basic benefit is not enough to live on (for reference the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has stated that a living wage is over £1 more than the minimum wage.

 

My point was that every time someone is caught working while claiming benefits it just gives more propaganda to the people who want us to be self sufficient (the New right). They are then able to turn peoples opinion against those on benefits , particularly long term benefits so that they are seen as undeserving or scroungers .

The whole concept of deserving and undeserving poor is to me abhorrent. As time goes by more and more people will be classed as undeserving . That was what the workhouse was largely used for in the 1860's and onwards .

 

IMO a living wage should be paid so that we do not have to pay out tax credits etc . The largest part of the benefits bill is paid to working people although IDS doesn't want you to know that

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

"IMO a living wage should be paid so that we do not have to pay out tax credits etc . The largest part of the benefits bill is paid to working people although IDS doesn't want you to know that"

 

The green party propose a citizens income. Their maths begin to make sense if you fully consider the idea.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO a living wage should be paid so that we do not have to pay out tax credits etc . The largest part of the benefits bill is paid to working people although IDS doesn't want you to know that

Some numbers pulled from 2011-2012 thanks to an old article from the Guardian:

 

  • State Pensions: £74.22bn
  • Housing Benefit: £16.94bn
  • Jobseekers' Allowance: £4.91bn
  • Working Tax Credits and Child Benefit: £12.22bn

The State Pension is by far the biggest single spend when it comes to benefits. HB/WTC/CB combined, takes up second position. Add on Council Tax Relief, and the spend on "in work" benefits climbs even higher.

 

I agree, IDS and his cronies have done a very good job at shifting the focus, and the rhetoric used is distasteful, and at times, nasty.

 

Did I mention the cost of the Work Programme (projected £5bn over its lifetime), or money wasted on implementing Universal Credit, and the countless other money pits that the DWP has hidden in the back yard ?

 

P.S. Congratulations on hitting the 6,000 post - You get a prize if you can bag the 10,000 :whoo:

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was 'blatantly obvious' that somebody was receiving substantial amounts of cash in hand from work done whilst on JSA surely it is within the JCA employee's remit to launch an investigation into the person they suspect of working whilst claiming benefit... if not then they are spouting the rhetoric the Conservative party like to peddle about the 'unworthy benefit scroungers'.

 

If Universal Credit does work and become the new 'passport to benefits of any and every kind' then they will have created again another class of people to 'target'.

You are quite right (not so) Sillygirl1. There are right ways and wrong ways of dealing with this if it is such a big problem.

It seems to me that the Government is condoning the operations of the black economy, illegal and criminal activity when it suits. We are informed that the recent hoo-ha about the £1.7 Billion that the EU is demanding stems partly from a cumulative benefit to the UK economy of almost £10 Billion from prostitution and drugs alone, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

For every claimant who receives cash in hand for work done there is an employer who has paid it, sometimes more than one employer. It might be possible to sympathise with the claimant in his/her desperation but how can we be expected to sympathise with the employer whose motivation is sheer greed? Yet is this what we are being brain-washed into doing? If the practice is so prevalent and so uncondonable where are the statistics for employers prosecuted for taking advantage of and exploiting benefits claimants and any other source of cheap labour, for example, illegal immigrants? We are told that whole agencies exist and have as their prime objective the trafficking of cheap foreign labour.

Institutions, organisations, services and even whole authorities have been gradually infiltrated with cliques whose whole culture has corruption engrained into it. A picture is emerging of the whole country being enveloped by the systematic grooming and even breeding of children to satisfy the deviant tastes and urges of some of those cliques. The establishment can’t find one untainted individual among their number to chair an enquiry into all this. Even Sodom and Gomorra did better than this.

Anyway, let’s not mention all that. It’s so much easier and convenient to conform and spread the perceived propaganda that the unemployed, the sick and disabled, the poor, are the real and most dangerous enemy for having the gall to attempt to ease their poverty and plight, and stand up to and fight abuse, victimisation, discrimination and injustice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

TJ

The way that the DWP is supposed to administer its procedures is clearly set out in the various Guidance documents that it regularly publishes.

It is obvious from what you say that the proper administrative procedure has not been followed in your case. For a start, any changes to your routine should come about as a result of discussion between your adviser and yourself, not via notes from the advisers’ superiors or others.

What appears to have occurred in your case here could leave your adviser, and/or his manager, open to the charge of maladministration. This is a charge that has to be taken seriously and acted upon when it is made and, if found to be genuine, will result in disciplinary action against the perpetratror.

Seems that you are trying your best to conform and comply with the instructions given to you without raising a commotion yet at the same time you are being blamed and told off for being an inconvenience and intruding on their time. You could ask them if it would be more convenient for them if you went and curled up in a corner and died.

A JCP adviser who is genuinely friendly, fair, helpful and reasonable is a rare breed. Some use charm and smarm as a weapon to put claimants off guard. I was one given the following advice about a manager; “If you think he is patting you on the back out of any sense of friendship or respect, think again, he is merely checking your back for a weak spot to stab you in”.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't we have a thread on this subject earlier in the year ?

If I recall correctly, it turned nasty and eventually got closed down....

Yes Mr. P I do recall a similar discussion being previously instigated by a contributor. I recall also that when other contributors got engaged in the discussion with alternative points of view the instigator of the discussion raised such a hue and cry that the administrators of the forum were obliged to terminate the thread.

 

Such action might be construed as unfair if a contributor can instigate a discussion or raise a topic and post his or her opinion freely and without censure but contributors with an alternative point of view who wish to stick up for themselves and other genuine claimants and contributors are denied the opportunity of responding. I do not respond to such prompts to be unreasonable or to insult or demean anyone. On the contrary, the opposite is my aim, discussion of different points of view can only be a good thing and only a coward would watch out for an occasion to throw the first punch and then run off and hide under the protection of the administrators should a response not suit them.

I’m not sure if you find anything in the quote objectionable or worthy of censure, or if in fact you have been offended by anything I have written. If so, then I apologise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not sure if you find anything in the quote objectionable or worthy of censure, or if in fact you have been offended by anything I have written. If so, then I apologise.

 

Not at all. It was more of a cautionary note to advise others that the discussion might go off the rails and result in this thread being locked.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

How the money is spent is all down to interpretation. Recent studies seem to separate welfare and pensions and indeed in the new chart being sent out by our cash strapped government welfare is a much greater proportion than pensions. New tax summary: £23,000 taxable income (back) shows very roughly 25% going on welfare. I have no way of knowing what is included in welfare for example does it include guaranteed pension credit.

 

I actually think it is the child benefit bill that is 12.22 billion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11466178

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

How the money is spent is all down to interpretation. Recent studies seem to separate welfare and pensions and indeed in the new chart being sent out by our cash strapped government welfare is a much greater proportion than pensions. New tax summary: £23,000 taxable income (back) shows very roughly 25% going on welfare. I have no way of knowing what is included in welfare for example does it include guaranteed pension credit.

 

I actually think it is the child benefit bill that is 12.22 billion http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11466178

I am suitably humbled by your exposé on which group of welfare claimants gets what. Nice to see the pensioners are off the hook for living too long.

Doesn’t look too good for the children though, perhaps a cull is called for, or another campaign targeting single mothers.

It’s hard enough work being a scrounger but when one has to compete with other groups for pole position and attack each other for the scraps it’s too much.

I’m sure it will be a source of great comfort to the DWP and to the groups you mention that you are taking such a keen interest in the former’s expenditure and the latter’s welfare. It is not always wise to put one’s faith in government statistics, you know what they say about statistics. You are quite right, it’s all down to interpretation and who is doing the interpreting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lapsed

Sadly I can not tell if you are having a go or just taking the P

 

It was allegedly Disraeli (although other people suggest otherwise) who said lies, damn lies and statistics -that was for those who didn't know and quite frankly I never believe government statistics until I have looked into them myself . I do not think it can be doubted that the present government are manipulating figures to turn people against the unemployed and sick so that they are seen as scroungers and undeserving . They are also attacking benefits by lower than inflation increases on what is intended to be a safety net i.e the minimum you need in a developed western society and by higher costs such as council tax and rent restrictions .

 

As for the DWP and WP's I believe that there are some who are good and care and some who do not. They are all of course target driven by our loving government. I also believe that some of them are devious and manipulative by trying to be all buddy buddy but in fact being nothing of the sort

 

The waste of money is crazy, I am on the WP ( I was on ESA) yet I have now started a full time degree course . I am still expected to keep in touch with Ingeus and I happened to log into my gov account and there were bloody job recommendations for me -and that is after I refused to give anyone access to it.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

TJ

The way that the DWP is supposed to administer its procedures is clearly set out in the various Guidance documents that it regularly publishes.

It is obvious from what you say that the proper administrative procedure has not been followed in your case. For a start, any changes to your routine should come about as a result of discussion between your adviser and yourself, not via notes from the advisers’ superiors or others.

What appears to have occurred in your case here could leave your adviser, and/or his manager, open to the charge of maladministration. This is a charge that has to be taken seriously and acted upon when it is made and, if found to be genuine, will result in disciplinary action against the perpetratror.

Seems that you are trying your best to conform and comply with the instructions given to you without raising a commotion yet at the same time you are being blamed and told off for being an inconvenience and intruding on their time. You could ask them if it would be more convenient for them if you went and curled up in a corner and died.

A JCP adviser who is genuinely friendly, fair, helpful and reasonable is a rare breed. Some use charm and smarm as a weapon to put claimants off guard. I was one given the following advice about a manager; “If you think he is patting you on the back out of any sense of friendship or respect, think again, he is merely checking your back for a weak spot to stab you in”.

I did read some guidelines and it saying those who finished the WP before April would stay on pwps but after 6 months your advisor can review that as can the jobcentre plus branch manager and they can decide if they want to change things so that must be what that ment when she said at my stage of claim im expected to attened weekley - the guidelines just say they are to discuss it with me which i guess what she said could count as that ?

TJR JNR

Link to post
Share on other sites

The figure for 'welfare' in the government statistics that are being sent out apparently includes public sector pensions, i.e. those paid to nurse, police, fireman etc.

 

Am I alone in thinking this is a rather different definition of 'welfare' than might be expected by the average person reading those statistics. Heaven forbid that they should interpret as meaning the government is spending more on all those scroungers than they actually are.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The figure for 'welfare' in the government statistics that are being sent out apparently includes public sector pensions, i.e. those paid to nurse, police, fireman etc.

 

Am I alone in thinking this is a rather different definition of 'welfare' than might be expected by the average person reading those statistics. Heaven forbid that they should interpret as meaning the government is spending more on all those scroungers than they actually are.

 

You are not alone in thinking that. It is an expansive definition of "welfare" that is calculated to deceive.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lapsed

Sadly I can not tell if you are having a go or just taking the P

 

It was allegedly Disraeli (although other people suggest otherwise) who said lies, damn lies and statistics -that was for those who didn't know and quite frankly I never believe government statistics until I have looked into them myself . I do not think it can be doubted that the present government are manipulating figures to turn people against the unemployed and sick so that they are seen as scroungers and undeserving . They are also attacking benefits by lower than inflation increases on what is intended to be a safety net i.e the minimum you need in a developed western society and by higher costs such as council tax and rent restrictions .

 

As for the DWP and WP's I believe that there are some who are good and care and some who do not. They are all of course target driven by our loving government. I also believe that some of them are devious and manipulative by trying to be all buddy buddy but in fact being nothing of the sort

 

The waste of money is crazy, I am on the WP ( I was on ESA) yet I have now started a full time degree course . I am still expected to keep in touch with Ingeus and I happened to log into my gov account and there were bloody job recommendations for me -and that is after I refused to give anyone access to it.

This forum goes under the name of Consumer Action Group. The consumable that we discuss and pontificate on in this section of the forum is, in the main, benefits. It follows then that those who are drawn to this part of the forum are consumers of one or more of the welfare benefits.

The title implies a group that take action on behalf of or in support of the consumer, who in this case, we can define as the benefit claimant. The sub title, Reclaim the Right, implies that rights, once held, need reclaiming. The action mentioned in the title does not mean revolution, murder or plot, it turns out that it means help, advice and guidance.

In most cases claimants are drawn to the forum because it offers the prospect of said help, guidance or advice on some problem or issue that they have with the benefit system as consumers embroiled in that system. Having been given such assistance some of us remain out of a sense of gratitude in order to repay or give back what we owe for what we received by passing on experiences and advice or guidance, however sound, as best we can, where we can.

I can’t say that I have ever read in any of the other sections of the forum people coming on and demeaning or insulting with impunity the consumers who seek assistance on some other form of consumables, goods or services.

When I read a post, then, that I perceive to be some sort of a veiled attack on those who have to rely on benefits for their survival, the consumers, readers, followers, members, contributors, that make up this part of the forum, I take umbrage, it raises my hackles and makes me feel duty bound to respond, jump in with both feet to defend my fellow members, and nip the offending remarks in the bud.

This post of yours, quoted above, has left me breathless with admiration, especially considering the impression I took from previous posts. The sentiments you have conveyed in three short paragraphs I could not convey in three months. Had I not reacted as I did would that post ever have been written? Would the world have been denied as fine a piece of prose in defence of an exploited minority as has ever seen the light of day?

Please don’t be sad if you cannot always make up your mind where I’m coming from straight away. In delicate discussions or exchanges I try to compose my posts with that object in mind. Believe it or not there are those who would go to any lengths to silence opposition or contrary opinion once they have expressed their own.

I am delighted to read that you are studying for a degree now. Might I ask what subject? If you continue to express and develop the sentiments expressed in the quote above when you get your ‘ology’ I envisage a great future for you. In the meantime let us live and learn from the many talented contributors to this forum, whose future prospects are interlinked by adversity to our own, and who should all be uniting with a view to protect, preserve and enhance, indeed reclaim the basic rights of which we are being deprived.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And I still cant decide. Are you sure your name isn't Baz. I am afaid I am not doing an ology although not a million miles away. I know you thought of me as some right wing thug but maybe I can now explain myself more effectively because....

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

And I still cant decide. Are you sure your name isn't Baz. I am afaid I am not doing an ology although not a million miles away. I know you thought of me as some right wing thug but maybe I can now explain myself more effectively because....

 

I’m afraid that from some of your remarks I did take you for a snooty, bigoted Tory Boy. But your recent post dispelled me of that opinion. Now that you have elaborated to some extent on the perspective from which you view the issues aired on this forum I feel sure that your attempts at explaining yourself will result in a desirable effect.

 

Not sure who Baz is or what effect he’s had on you, but you can rest assured I am not he.

 

Trollope, in his writings over 130 years ago, opined regarding the Tory and the Liberal attitude and instinct as follows and not much appears to have altered since that would have persuaded him alter his opinion:

“The Conservative who has had any idea of the meaning of the name which he carries wishes to maintain the differences and the distances which separate the highly placed from their lower brethren. He thinks that God has divided the world as he finds it divided, and that he may best do his duty by making the inferior man happy and contented in his position, teaching him that the place which he holds is his by God's ordinance.”

"And it is so."

"Hardly in the sense that I mean. But that is the great Conservative lesson. That lesson seems to me to be hardly compatible with continual improvement in the condition of the lower man. But with the Conservative all such improvement is to be based on the idea of the maintenance of those distances. I as a Duke am to be kept as far apart from the man who drives my horses as was my ancestor from the man who drove his, or who rode after him to the wars,—and that is to go on forever. There is much to be said for such a scheme. Let the lords be, all of them, men with loving hearts, and clear intellect, and noble instincts, and it is possible that they should use their powers so beneficently as to spread happiness over the earth. It is one of the millenniums which the mind of man can conceive, and seems to be that which the Conservative mind does conceive."

"But the other men who are not lords don't want that kind of happiness."

"If such happiness were attainable it might be well to constrain men to accept it. But the lords of this world are fallible men; and though as units they ought to be and perhaps are better than those others who have fewer advantages, they are much more likely as units to go astray in opinion than the bodies of men whom they would seek to govern. We know that power does corrupt, and that we cannot trust kings to have loving hearts, and clear intellects, and noble instincts. Men, as they come to think about it and to look forward, and to look back, will not believe in such a millennium as that."

"Do they believe in any millennium?"

"I think they do after a fashion, and I think that I do myself. That is my idea of Conservatism. The doctrine of Liberalism is, of course, the reverse. The Liberal, if he have any fixed idea at all, must, I think, have conceived the idea of lessening distances,—of bringing the coachman and the duke nearer together,—nearer and nearer, till a millennium shall be reached by—"

"By equality?" asked Phineas, eagerly interrupting the Prime Minister, and showing his dissent by the tone of his voice.

"I did not use the word, which is open to many objections. In the first place the millennium, which I have perhaps rashly named, is so distant that we need not even think of it as possible. Men's intellects are at present so various that we cannot even realise the idea of equality, and here in England we have been taught to hate the word by the evil effects of those absurd attempts which have been made elsewhere to proclaim it as a fact accomplished by the scratch of a pen or by a chisel on a stone. We have been injured in that, because a good word signifying a grand idea has been driven out of the vocabulary of good men. Equality would be a heaven, if we could attain it.

How can we to whom so much has been given dare to think otherwise? How can you look at the bowed back and bent legs and abject face of that poor ploughman, who winter and summer has to drag his rheumatic limbs to his work, while you go a-hunting or sit in pride of place among the foremost few of your country, and say that it all is as it ought to be? You are a Liberal because you know that it is not all as it ought to be, and because you would still march on to some nearer approach to equality; though the thing itself is so great, so glorious, so godlike,—nay, so absolutely divine,—that you have been disgusted by the very promise of it, because its perfection is unattainable. Men have asserted a mock equality till the very idea of equality stinks in men's nostrils."

We are denied his opinion of the Party brought into existence by the labouring classes to further their interests as they had not come into existence at that time. I reckon if he were to offer an opinion now, considering how far they have turned their backs on the labouring classes, that opinion would be unprintable.

 

Edited by honeybee13
Pejorative language, etc.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Lapsed

I love that, very witty. It is universally recognised (well by those who think about it) that in a capitalist society the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and whatever the government say there is no place for a welfare state bar the few "deserving poor" i.e the sick, disabled and infirm. Everyone else should be able to provide for themselves both at times of need and in old age . Of course for that to happen we need full employment and living wages not exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie (can you guess what one of my subjects is now?) Frankly the party that is led by Ed is no more a socialist party than the BNP are.

I think you may have had me down for a DM reader because I am not prepared to tar all employees of the DWP as part of the government just as I do believe that there are some (although not many) that abuse the welfare system . When I say abuse I am not talking about earning £20 a week for a bit of cash in hand but those that spend their DLA higher rate mobility money on a skiing holidays as an example

 

Just Interested

I have to say that while I dismiss the blog as somewhat badly written and poorly referenced , if you dig around within some of the links , and links to links there is indeed some interesting stuff on welfare there. When I refer to welfare I am talking about all unemployment/sickness/family tax credits/etc that are administered by the DWP and HMRC for the working family . I am not at this point interested in money that is spent on tax breaks for business or debt interest . I abhor the way that so much has been lumped under welfare which most people believe is money paid out to non working people

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I just say this is supposed to be a topic about Ingeus which has gone waaay off track. Can we get back to discussing their incompetence please.

Feel free to post your gripes about Ingeus and I feel sure that regular contributors will respond appropriately.

 

In the meantime the administrators tend to do a fair job at deciding when a thread or a post is ‘wandering’. They do not normally rely on occasional contributors to advise, assist or censure them. In my own humble opinion what could be construed as ‘off track’ to some may contain a little gem to others.

What if all contributors decided to curtail freedom of expression?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want another example of how pathetic it all is

As I hae said before I am technically on ESA (at least until my next review) although I now don't get any money because I am a student . I am also half way through the 2 years WP. On friday I got a letter telling me I had to attend an appointment on whatever date to discuss my plans for getting back into work blah blah. If I did not attend my benefit could be stopped . I guess that would be the money I do not get). Then there was the phone number of the office -it was the wrong number , almost right but 1 digit out . And she gets paid to help people get back into work.

 

Lapsed , don't start me on freedom of expression

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...