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Yorkylad, the DWP and JCP will not actually have any involvement in the referral, that is purely the Work Programme provider, they will make the referral directly to the DMA based who will look at the information provided and make the decision if tey have sufficent information but they may write out to you for your reasons for the fail to attend. When you reply the decision will be made, at no point do JCP become involved in this *we have now been instructed to steer clear and more or ess let the providers hang themselves which is not the customer service that I like to be involved as I do like and try my best to helkp where possible) however it needs to be shown officially that the Work Programme is not working for a number of reasons and the complaints need to be made to show the Government this.

Apparanetly the Work Programme providers are starting to go back to the Government and ask for more money as it is proving more challenging than they originally thought and feel they needto be rewarded more :o

 

The only sanctions that have been removed are for Work Experience and the Sector Based Work Acadamy (SBWA), all other sanction will remain.

 

Hi Flumps - not entirely unexpected that pimps now going cap in hand to beg or demand more money bearing in mind truly abysmal record of the likes of A4greed (see Ipswich Unemployed Action website for details of leaked/lost performance figures). No doubt other pimps' results are in the same miserable ball park. Have you any evidence (without exposing yourself) of which pimps are knocking at Grayling's and/or Iain Dunkin Donuts' doors?

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Hi Flumps - not entirely unexpected that pimps now going cap in hand to beg or demand more money bearing in mind truly abysmal record of the likes of A4greed (see Ipswich Unemployed Action website for details of leaked/lost performance figures). No doubt other pimps' results are in the same miserable ball park. Have you any evidence (without exposing yourself) of which pimps are knocking at Grayling's and/or Iain Dunkin Donuts' doors?

 

The abysmal record was a given anyway, if a company is going to tender for a w2w contract that has strings attached ie getting people into work, surely some research on job availability would be a prerequisite? What they did was take the money and worry about it later, it's all a shambles and doesn't look like it's going to get any better, if they are going cap in hand now, what will happen when the ESA customers really start to filter through? Hopefully the whole deck of cards will implode on itself, w2w has never worked in real terms and never will, it's another way of massaging the unemployment figures.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Yorkylad, the DWP and JCP will not actually have any involvement in the referral, that is purely the Work Programme provider, they will make the referral directly to the DMA based who will look at the information provided and make the decision if tey have sufficent information but they may write out to you for your reasons for the fail to attend. When you reply the decision will be made, at no point do JCP become involved in this *we have now been instructed to steer clear and more or ess let the providers hang themselves which is not the customer service that I like to be involved as I do like and try my best to helkp where possible) however it needs to be shown officially that the Work Programme is not working for a number of reasons and the complaints need to be made to show the Government this.

Apparanetly the Work Programme providers are starting to go back to the Government and ask for more money as it is proving more challenging than they originally thought and feel they needto be rewarded more :o

 

The only sanctions that have been removed are for Work Experience and the Sector Based Work Acadamy (SBWA), all other sanction will remain.

 

We have now been instructed to steer clear and more or less let the providers hang themselves

No surprises there, I think this has been the mood unofficially at JCP for ages.

 

The only sanctions that have been removed are for Work Experience and the Sector Based Work Acadamy (SBWA), all other sanction will remain

I notice Grayling kept quiet on that one, lets hope the same campaigns get underway to eliminate all sanctions attached to workfare


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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We have now been instructed to steer clear and more or less let the providers hang themselves

No surprises there, I think this has been the mood unofficially at JCP for ages.

 

The only sanctions that have been removed are for Work Experience and the Sector Based Work Acadamy (SBWA), all other sanction will remain

I notice Grayling kept quiet on that one, lets hope the same campaigns get underway to eliminate all sanctions attached to workfare

Hi osdset.

Read some of your stuff on Indus. Well said. Don't know how you get away with it - I've been banned twice for having anti WP sentiments - and a whole thread was "disappeared". So much for "inclusion" No sense of irony those people!

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Hi osdset.

Read some of your stuff on Indus. Well said. Don't know how you get away with it - I've been banned twice for having anti WP sentiments - and a whole thread was "disappeared". So much for "inclusion" No sense of irony those people!

Lol no one is more surprised than me that they let me keep posting, I am expecting a ban any time now though, just as well I have a couple of dozen more e mail accounts then, different user name, same derogatory comments:wink:


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Seen in Fri2 Mar Page 21 Daily Mail - EU (was secret Diktat ) letting Indian Companys send in 40,000 IT Techs to boost Trade Deals in EU - UK has to take at least 12,000 - more than twice the number France is permitting entry - Germany with a much stronger economy is only taking 8,000

 

This has been negotiating since 2007 but will be finalised now - Indian IT Techs can live and work in UK for 6 months then must go home :lol: but it is unenforcable - they will just disappear into the woodwork like the rest - So anyone looking for any IT Jobs will have to look at other Careers

 

I would do a link to the article if I knew how to but I dont - you could then see how Vince Cable's Business Dept has sold British IT Jobs down the River :mad2::mad2: Perhaps someone on here could do a Link so you can read the whole piece

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Seen in Fri2 Mar Page 21 Daily Mail - EU (was secret Diktat ) letting Indian Companys send in 40,000 IT Techs to boost Trade Deals in EU - UK has to take at least 12,000 - more than twice the number France is permitting entry - Germany with a much stronger economy is only taking 8,000

 

This has been negotiating since 2007 but will be finalised now - Indian IT Techs can live and work in UK for 6 months then must go home :lol: but it is unenforcable - they will just disappear into the woodwork like the rest - So anyone looking for any IT Jobs will have to look at other Careers

 

I would do a link to the article if I knew how to but I dont - you could then see how Vince Cable's Business Dept has sold British IT Jobs down the River :mad2::mad2: Perhaps someone on here could do a Link so you can read the whole piece

 

 

This has been going on for over 10 years, I can't get the link to the Daily Mail article but here's one from the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8051349/India-trade-deal-with-EU-will-allow-thousands-of-immigrants-into-Britain.html


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Thanks odset for the Telegraph link - additional in the Daily Mail article is that the UK have to take over 12,000 which is 30% of Total despite UK only having 12% of EU Population.

 

French (under 6,000 Indians ) have always hated our guts and although Germany (8,000 Indians ) are said to have lost both WW1 and WW2 they have been winning everything since - Germany wont even let in EU Ethynol Unleaded and Diesel because it will be bad for their Mercs

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Lol no one is more surprised than me that they let me keep posting, I am expecting a ban any time now though, just as well I have a couple of dozen more e mail accounts then, different user name, same derogatory comments:wink:

 

"Power to the people!":wink:

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"Power to the people!":wink:

Up the revolution! I gave one of them a broadside today about workfare, what a bunch of smug, self satisfied Muppets, most of the posts on there consists of self serving drivel, giving each other moral support.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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One person's account of Ingeus and the Work Programme. Taken from the consent.me website (http://www.consent.me.uk/blog/) Worth a visit.

I am on one of these workfare schemes with Ingeus. Surprisingly the job centre said Ingeus were great and A4E bad, my job centre advisor said because she liked me she wouldn’t send me to A4E, she would only send the ‘no good’ ones there.

My experience of Ingeus was that they speak to customers like dirt; they bully and shout at you, sometimes to the point of tears. Their advisors did not have a clue what to do if you are highly experienced and educated.

As a Psychotherapist/Counsellor that lost my job from the voluntary sector, I was told by one of the advisors “What is it about you and your faults that mean you have been unemployed for a year?” I answered that in the current climate people like my self that help people in voluntary and public sectors are being made redundant in their hundreds and thousands thus no jobs”.She replied “I don’t know anything about that sector of work so I don’t know what to say about getting a job in that area, but I could get you some work experience in a shop in the mean time”

Surely it’s her job to know about the job market and how would stacking shelves enhance my career? Also why is it my fault I was still unemployed when I was doing everything necessary to get work?

Next after telling me my CV was really, really good and clearly shows a successful career, she told me I had to go on a“how to write a CV class” When I refused politely she spat at me that “this is the obvious reason you don’t av a job, because I can tell ya aint gonna work with me are ya” (sic). How this works in retrospect I will never know. She raised her voice when I was quiet and calm, she also ranted and spat at me. I was so shocked I could barley respond. However I had refused to sign one of the two forms that said they could contact my future employer, I think this rubbed her up the wrong way. I did sign the other form and I wish I hadn’t now.

The whole office was watching her rant; it was hugely embarrassing and traumatising to be abused in front of an office full of people, even the other staff members looked embarrassed and shocked by her outburst. I Left in tears and not feeling full of support for future work. Being unemployed is a degrading and humiliating experience in the first place but after this first meeting I then spiraled even more into depression and a deep fear for the future which entailed another meeting with this women.

I dread my meetings with this company to the point of it making me ill, the angry advisor I first saw glares at me every time I go in. I have spent my life on and off working for free for causes I believe in, and due to the government cuts, my career has disappeared along with the vital support I gave people. I will not be forced to do free work, I do a lot for society as it is and as a single woman I need to support myself with real paid employment which I search for everyday. I’m bright enough to job search thank you very much.

This work program is not fit for purpose and is used to abuse and bully people. I’ve never felt so degraded in all my life until I was sent on this scheme and I’ve worked since I was 14 years old in all sorts of roles so I despair when Chris Grayling calls critics of workfare ‘job snobs’.

You should see the body language of other claimants in there; everyone is avoiding eye contact and their face falls when called to see their advisor. I’ve overheard other peoples sessions and they are as patronising and as rude as they were with me.

As a counsellor, if I ever spoke to my clients like this I would be sued and suspended immediately by the BACP because I am working with vulnerable people, well many unemployed job seekers and the disabled especially those with mental health problems are vulnerable also.

I have been working on setting up my own business and will be signing off JSA soon but Ingeus wants to monitor and see me for two years. I do not want to enter their premises or speak with them ever again, and why should I when I’m no longer on JSA.

I will complain when I know I won’t have to go back there as I can’t bare anymore death glares from the ignorant advisors as I believe they found out I complained to my MP. How the Government can pay these companies to abuse people is beyond belief. I fear a formal complaint would just make it worse at the moment during my transition into self employment, but I will get round to it one day, believe me.

Jane UK

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How can this be right?http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2753/


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Hi Guys,

 

Just a quickie. The upshot is after my Ingeus advisor cancelled my appointment two weeks ago I received a rescheduled one in the post. However due putting the appointment in my phone diary for the wrong day and discarding the letter I put the wrong day(should have been the 5th and I put it in the 6th). I rang my advisor on Tuesday to inform her I couldn't attend due to feeling dreadful (battling two abscess in my jaw-awaiting an op to remove them) , I was informed by her I had missed it!! So I'm rescheduled for tomorrow. I went to sign on today and explained the above situation, the chap at the JC looked at the screen, the no show is on file without any date of notes for sanction. Would anyone know if I will be sanctioned , would there be a note on the screen to say they have advised sanction. My worry is the knock on effect fopr HB/CB!

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How can this be right?http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2753/

 

 

That is shocking, but until they stop the targets system in benefit offices this is what will happen.

The least misdemeanour's will result in suspensions.

 

Have the people that work in the Job Centres got no morals or backbone these days, or are they just worried about keeping their own jobs?

 

The whole country is going down the plug hole. Depressing.

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That is shocking, but until they stop the targets system in benefit offices this is what will happen.

The least misdemeanour's will result in suspensions.

 

Have the people that work in the Job Centres got no morals or backbone these days, or are they just worried about keeping their own jobs?

 

The whole country is going down the plug hole. Depressing.

Very depressing, and what's more sinister is that it seems like any group, charity or person with any clout, has taken a back seat, or have been kneecapped in the struggle against welfare reform, the house of lord's was the last ditch attempt to bring this government into line, and that's pretty much failed.

I remember the poll tax riots, ordinary men and women took to the streets in protest against an unfair tax, where is the same spirit of protest against this government's determination to strip the most needy members of our society of the basic means of survival? I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm ashamed to be English.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Frank_Begbie, I take exception to your comment above, I work for JCP and make no secret of that fact, I do have morals and I do most certainly have a backbone thank you. What I do not have is the personal power to change the legislation that is considered then put forward by the Government to be passed by Paliament.

If people are not happy with particular areas then do something about it by contact your local MP regading your issues, please stop grouping all people who happen to work for a particular oraganisation as all behaving in the same manner.

As I have posted on other threads in this forum wherever you go and whatever service you receive from any organisation you can experience excellent customer service or diabolical service. I like to think that if I walk into a supermarket and somebody treats me with a complete lack of respect that I take my issue to the manager of the store, yes that individual does not give a good impression of the business but it does not mean that the whole company behaves in the same manner.

 

With comments like yours you may achieve your mission (from what I can gather from other posts you have submitted) where people who can help those geniunely in need of help and advice find that is lacking because of the constant bashing of people just because they happen to work for JCP/DWP/HMRC to name but a few!

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I think the JCP if given the proper resources as in the government stop using private leech companies, then the staff there would bend over backwards to help more than they can at present. I am sure their are some great staff as shown by the fact that some of them as flumps1976 for example go out of their way to give free advice on these forums in their own time.

 

I would much prefer the advice from JCP than A4E or Ingeus. I after reading news the last few weeks cannot trust the private companies.

 

You have to understand that backbone you refer to has a person who has to protect their job whilst doing their best and we do understand that. Lets hope the funding is returned to job centres and we should not blame individual advisors for the governments mess.

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I think the JCP if given the proper resources as in the government stop using private leech companies, then the staff there would bend over backwards to help more than they can at present. I am sure their are some great staff as shown by the fact that some of them as flumps1976 for example go out of their way to give free advice on these forums in their own time.

 

I would much prefer the advice from JCP than A4E or Ingeus. I after reading news the last few weeks cannot trust the private companies.

 

You have to understand that backbone you refer to has a person who has to protect their job whilst doing their best and we do understand that. Lets hope the funding is returned to job centres and we should not blame individual advisors for the governments mess.

 

Yes, you're right. The root of this problem is the confused ideology that transferred the functions of the JCP from the public sector in to the private sector in the mistaken (and totally unproven) belief that the introduction of the profit motive would somehow deliver a bettter "outcome". Instead what has happened is that profit is pursued at all costs. The casualties are empathy, humanity, understanding. "Customers" are, understandably, alienated and can become uncooperative and even hostile. Who can blame them? - it's not pleasant being treated as the disenfranchised goods in a transaction designed to profit the friends of government (the providers).

The experiment has failed. Everyone involved in whatever role is aware that the whole WP (not just Ingeus or A4greed) is a complete failure and not fit for purpose. The only people who don't seem to realise this are the Graylings, Dunkin Donuts and call me Daves of this world.

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Frank_Begbie, I take exception to your comment above, I work for JCP and make no secret of that fact, I do have morals and I do most certainly have a backbone thank you. What I do not have is the personal power to change the legislation that is considered then put forward by the Government to be passed by Paliament.

If people are not happy with particular areas then do something about it by contact your local MP regading your issues, please stop grouping all people who happen to work for a particular oraganisation as all behaving in the same manner.

As I have posted on other threads in this forum wherever you go and whatever service you receive from any organisation you can experience excellent customer service or diabolical service. I like to think that if I walk into a supermarket and somebody treats me with a complete lack of respect that I take my issue to the manager of the store, yes that individual does not give a good impression of the business but it does not mean that the whole company behaves in the same manner.

 

With comments like yours you may achieve your mission (from what I can gather from other posts you have submitted) where people who can help those geniunely in need of help and advice find that is lacking because of the constant bashing of people just because they happen to work for JCP/DWP/HMRC to name but a few!

 

So have you ever forwarded a clients details on to a decision maker?

To find later that the clients benefit has been suspended?

 

Are you on a target based system?

 

Just following orders is no excuse.

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Yes I do make referrals to the DMA team and yes that can result in benefit being either sanctioned or disallowed.

No I am not on a targets based system personally.

I don't follow orders I follow the guidance that is in place for Job Seekers Allowance in the form of regulations as set by government and legislation.

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Frank_Begbie, I take exception to your comment above, I work for JCP and make no secret of that fact, I do have morals and I do most certainly have a backbone thank you. What I do not have is the personal power to change the legislation that is considered then put forward by the Government to be passed by Paliament.

If people are not happy with particular areas then do something about it by contact your local MP regading your issues, please stop grouping all people who happen to work for a particular oraganisation as all behaving in the same manner.

As I have posted on other threads in this forum wherever you go and whatever service you receive from any organisation you can experience excellent customer service or diabolical service. I like to think that if I walk into a supermarket and somebody treats me with a complete lack of respect that I take my issue to the manager of the store, yes that individual does not give a good impression of the business but it does not mean that the whole company behaves in the same manner.

 

With comments like yours you may achieve your mission (from what I can gather from other posts you have submitted) where people who can help those geniunely in need of help and advice find that is lacking because of the constant bashing of people just because they happen to work for JCP/DWP/HMRC to name but a few!

 

A trite exercise...as it was MP's that pushed this legislation forward in the first place:|

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Yes I do make referrals to the DMA team and yes that can result in benefit being either sanctioned or disallowed.

No I am not on a targets based system personally.

I don't follow orders I follow the guidance that is in place for Job Seekers Allowance in the form of regulations as set by government and legislation.

 

Speaking personally, I couldn't do your job.

 

I couldn't look myself in the mirror knowing that people were suffering because of my actions.

 

A few years ago my benefit was suspended because I didn't apply for a certain job. (Totally unsuitable by the way)

The advisor told me I should have just said I did apply for the job and nothing would have happened.

 

If he would have been a decent human being, he could have told me that in the first place, then nothing would have happened. but no he just followed "guidance".

 

He later said they were all monkeys at the Jobcentre and did what they were told.

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