Ingeus

[ismael urzaiz]

it's ...SAID... not ..SAYED ffs i'm sure this is a wind up account like that caspers ghost one

[boomboomboom]

it's ...SAID... not ..SAYED ffs i'm sure this is a wind up account like that caspers ghost one

 

sorry pal from the part of scotland am from we say it like sayed instead of said so when am typing etc i forget and dont really pay attention haha

[antone]

Could we not spend our time criticizing other folks' spelling, grammar etc?

[essexmat]

Criticising

[antone]

Criticising

 

And how do you spell "smartarse"?

 

Ah well - I spent a lot of time in the USA.

[boomboomboom]

Could we not spend our time criticizing other folks' spelling, grammar etc?

 

Yeh aknow people can't help it if they spell words different way haha

Hope we can actual talk about Ingeus again lol

[jasta11]

So let me guess this right, WPs like INGEUS get bonuses for getting you back in to work. So how does this work if:

 

1. You done your CV yourself with no help via another source e.g. got professional help

2. You do all of your own covering letters and tailor them for each job

3. You are competent and versatile at interviews from years of experience

4. You looked for work on numerous websites, agencies, sent spec letters and CVs and done all the groundwork yourself

5. You used your own IT, electric, printer, paper and broadband which YOU pay for

6. You paid for your own clothes for interview as well as travel costs

 

As far as I can see this will be the case with me WHEN I get a job so I have no intention of giving INGEUS any credit whatsoever and will simply sign off and start my employment. They certainly WILL NOT be getting employer details from me.

 

It's wonderfully simple as far as the DWP and WP go; you're 'signed up' with Ingeus for 2 years so anything you accomplish will be automatically accredited to them. A brilliant strategy, isn't it? (for them, not you). They can make £14,000+ per client if the client gets a job and they claim every possible payment they can - no wonder they're so keen to 'try it on'!

 

Even if you showed concrete proof that you found the job yourself, used your own home pc, internet, letters, stamps, etc they would still claim that they had 'motivated you' and as such they are responsible for you getting the job. This is why they always want details of the employers you've contacted, either while on their premises or at home by yourself. It's all the same to them.

 

Totally wrong of course, but then in the real world there's a whole lot of people who get paid for not doing things..starting with the government themselves.

[boomboomboom]

It's wonderfully simple as far as the DWP and WP go; you're 'signed up' with Ingeus for 2 years so anything you accomplish will be automatically accredited to them. A brilliant strategy, isn't it? (for them, not you). They can make £14,000+ per client if the client gets a job and they claim every possible payment they can - no wonder they're so keen to 'try it on'!

 

Even if you showed concrete proof that you found the job yourself, used your own home pc, internet, letters, stamps, etc they would still claim that they had 'motivated you' and as such they are responsible for you getting the job. This is why they always want details of the employers you've contacted, either while on their premises or at home by yourself. It's all the same to them.

 

Totally wrong of course, but then in the real world there's a whole lot of people who get paid for not doing things..starting with the government themselves.

 

yeh they make that much money from u getting in work as they got u "into work" no it was me as i put the effort in not u am unemployed u are not.

soon be us getting the £14,000+ for getting in to work;) not them haha!

 

yeh the government think its easy to get jobs when u start to sign on its not like that but hiy ho they would not know as they have never had a job expect sit in a daft room arguing about politics and even in politics they dont have a clue they should sign on and see whats its like been unemployed and not having much experience!

 

plus this thing that starts next month "work for your benefit" 30 hours work or 30 hours in job centre how is this going to work? plus we bear the brunt for all these cuts cause "we the unemployed" caused all this debt etc ****.

[frozenelsa]

I've posted a link to the Work Provider Guidance, which you should also read up on. These are the DWP rules that Ingeus and all other WP's have to abide by so by knowing them you can hopefully keep one step ahead if they try and get you to do things that aren't allowed.

 

 

 

Chapter 3 Mandation is particularly useful and the one where I - and others here - often caught Ingeus out. Also Chapter 3c Work Experience will be very relevant too. If Ingeus know that you're aware of the guidance and won't be messed about they'll treat you better..well, hopefully anyway!

 

Also remember that the Jobcentre comes first before Ingeus, so if you have to sign on that day then that takes precedence over everything else - it's stated quite clearly in the Chapter 1 Overview guidance;

 

'Some participants may be required to attend mandatory interventions with Jobcentre Plus. For example JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.'

 

The link you posted is for the Work Programme. frozenelsa would appear to be conscripted on a Mandatory Work Activity via Ingeus. For MWA providers, there is another set of documents that they should be following:

 

In addition, there is the generic guidance that covers all DWP programmes:

 

A fair bit of the documentation is repetitive, so it is worth sitting down with a notepad & pen and noting the pertinent sections so that you can quote them when needed.

 

Yes I am on Mandatory Work Activity apparently, thank you both for both sets of info and links I will read through them both. Its quite evident my adviser at the jobcenter is doing everything possible to completely screw me over. I think she and other advisers are highly annoyed they forced me to use universal jobmatch for my job searching and I refused them access after my first account was magically wiped from their system.

 

Sorry had to remove the links from the quotes as my post count is not high enough at the moment.

[jasta11]

Make sure your normal jobsearch is kept up while you're on the course as the JC will still be checking.

 

If you're not already using them, Reed.co.uk and CV-Library.co.uk are jobsites worth registering with, even if only to show the JC that you're applying. Once you've uploaded your CV, brief cover letter and filled in a basic profile you can apply for jobs just with one click. Very quick and easy to rack up applications to show the JC when you sign on. Plus they send an automatic acknowledgement email to your own personal account each time you apply - this is also great evidence to show the JC.

 

Both sites record your applications in a 'My Applications' list so you just do a few screen-prints to show the JC. This is how I show my evidence and they never argue with it, indeed they often say 'Wish everyone would do this!'

 

Always apply for more jobs than you need to - my own JS Agreement only specifies 10 per fortnight (which on these sites takes literally 5 minutes) but I give them printouts showing 40 or 50 so no way can they say I haven't fulfilled my JS Agreement. Click on a couple of jobs each day - including weekends too - to show you're applying for something every day. Always be one step ahead of 'em:)

[dogtanian]

Iif you're already on the Work Programme the 'Help to Work' scheme only kicks in at the end of your 2 years

[Mr.P]

It's wonderfully simple as far as the DWP and WP go; you're 'signed up' with Ingeus for 2 years so anything you accomplish will be automatically accredited to them. A brilliant strategy, isn't it? (for them, not you). They can make £14,000+ per client if the client gets a job and they claim every possible payment they can

 

FYI: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmworpen/162/16208.htm

The typical 18-24 year old JSA claimant is worth £3,810, and the older ones, £4,395, only the ex-IB ESA claimants are worth £13,720. The new ESA claimants are worth much less at a paltry £6,500.

 

Note: Now that the Work Programme has been running for over two years, the attachment payments are now zero. The 18-24 JSA is now worth £3,410, 25+ JSA, £3,995. and top rate ESA claimants, £13,120.

 

Based on the above figures, it makes sense to process larger numbers of low value JSA claimants (push them in to any low paid job) and make a quick buck. The more difficult cases can be pushed to the bottom of the pile...

[jasta11]

it makes sense to process larger numbers of low value JSA claimants (push them in to any low paid job) and make a quick buck. The more difficult cases can be pushed to the bottom of the pile...

 

'Get 'em in bulk then flog 'em off cheap - you know it makes sense, Rodders. Luvvly Jubbly!'

[frozenelsa]

Make sure your normal jobsearch is kept up while you're on the course as the JC will still be checking.

 

If you're not already using them, Reed.co.uk and CV-Library.co.uk are jobsites worth registering with, even if only to show the JC that you're applying. Once you've uploaded your CV, brief cover letter and filled in a basic profile you can apply for jobs just with one click. Very quick and easy to rack up applications to show the JC when you sign on. Plus they send an automatic acknowledgement email to your own personal account each time you apply - this is also great evidence to show the JC.

 

Both sites record your applications in a 'My Applications' list so you just do a few screen-prints to show the JC. This is how I show my evidence and they never argue with it, indeed they often say 'Wish everyone would do this!'

 

Always apply for more jobs than you need to - my own JS Agreement only specifies 10 per fortnight (which on these sites takes literally 5 minutes) but I give them printouts showing 40 or 50 so no way can they say I haven't fulfilled my JS Agreement. Click on a couple of jobs each day - including weekends too - to show you're applying for something every day. Always be one step ahead of 'em:)

 

I already do that, I use universal jobmatch and others, I also keep a folder in my email of applied for jobs and responses to show them. I did have one adviser one week try to force me to click the allow them access box but wasn't happening. They lost all my trust the instant they sanctioned me for nothing, so now my jobsearching is fully controlled by me. They cant go into my account again and wipe it.

[jasta11]

Good for you! A lot of people don't realise they can have more control over their jobsearch and claim if they'd only read the rules - most simply accept what the JC say all the time and that's a recipe for trouble.

 

Another handy thing you may or may not know is that under Section 3 of the Social Security Act 1998, the DWP are only allowed to contact employers for feedback if the vacancy was a notified one, ie the advisor found it for you and mandated you to apply. If you found the vacancy yourself then they need your permission to contact the employer - which you naturally never give. I had an advisor say 'Glad you've listed your applications as we may contact them to check' whereupon I said '..and you'll be immediately reported for violation of the Social Security Act as none of them are notified vacancies' That shut her up rather quickly

 

Their own guidance also confirms this, extract here;

 

'Decision Making & Appeals (DMA): Gaining Customer Feedback from Employers

Feedback from an employer can only be requested where an advisor has matched a Jobseekers Allowance customer to a vacancy. There is no need to obtain the customers permission as this is covered by Section 3 of the Social Security Act 1998.'

[boomboomboom]

i guess this "help to work" starts tomorrow basically work for your benefit either take a job or attend job centre everyday or more training.

[ep1987]

How do Ingeus benefit from raising compliance doubts which can (and often do) lead to sanctions?

 

I ask because an an ESA claimant (mental health) this is how i've been treated:

 

Called up on day of first appointment, told that i don't need to go in, can be done on the phone (would have been great to know this before my dad booked the afternoon off work to accompany me).

 

Repeatedly contacted about sending a cv (including a phone call on a saturday) which i have now done three times to three different people; hopefully now it's 'on the system'.

 

Sent an appointment through the post which i couldn't make (dad on holiday for a few days). Contacted them 10 times via phone and e-mail to re-arrange, could never get through directly to the esa advisor (who has never replied to my voicemails or e-mails). On the day at 7pm got a very useful reminder text; with a mandatory action soon following in the post informing me that as i had missed my previous appointment i would be sanctioned if i failed to attend.

 

Am i wrong in thinking that they have to meet a target number of sanctions or are they just completely incompetent?

[Mr.P]

Am i wrong in thinking that they have to meet a target number of sanctions or are they just completely incompetent?

 

There are no "official" sanction targets that have to be met. There might be unofficial league tables in place, but it is impossible to this verified by the DWP - If anyone tells you that a Work Programme provider gets a bonus for each successful sanction raised, take it with a huge pinch of salt and demand to see the proof.

 

As for "are they just completely incompetent" - Completely, utterly, and totally !

The welfare to work industry has had some twenty to thirty years to redefine incompetent and turn it in to a profit making venture.

[jasta11]

How do Ingeus benefit from raising compliance doubts which can (and often do) lead to sanctions??

 

Irrespective of any targets which may or may not exist, it's written in their contract with the DWP that they have to report clients who don't comply so in order to be seen to be doing the job properly, clients will get reported - whether genuinely or as a result of WP incompetence (usually the main reason) and even out of pure malice on the part of some power-crazed, vindictive advisor (also a big factor).

 

Even if every customer complied with the requirements you can bet there would still be compliance doubts raised by the WP just to present an 'efficient' image to it's DWP masters.

 

Best way to minimise this is to be clued-up on the guidance and ready to complain loudly about any abuses. Once they know you're prepared to stand up for yourself then they'll tread carefully with you. Definitely works. I could have raised a legitimate complaint every time I attended the WP as they were always making mistakes.

[boomboomboom]

why can ingeus always be looking for new staff in my ingeus office and then have 10 advisers but now there 2? its that bad that my office in scotland does not open to 11 just now.

they seem to bring in staff then send them away to the main office in Glasgow.

[essexmat]

Slightly off tangent but none the less to do with INGEUS (sort of)

 

I applied for a job I liked the sound of this morning and spent an hour reading through the job description and person specification then another 2.5 hours tailoring my CV and covering letter, then another 30 minutes proofing the letter and email so all in all around 4 hours.

 

I sent the email off and in the space of an hour I had a reply from REED (that is where the vacancy was advertised) which read ...

 

"Dear XXXX Thank you for your application for the role of XXXX. I am sorry to inform you that on this occassion you have not been successful"

 

Erm, so in an hour you have dismissed my application I spent 4 hours on? So basically it was a job that had to be advertised legally although was pillar boxed for someone in the first place (internally) or simply did not exist! If you were going to reply why do it so soon after an applicant has sent an application off.

 

I have emailed her back and asked for an explanation, quel surprise, no reply so I emailed my INGEUS adviser with the trail of emails and she simply said "it happens" Yeah, useful, thanks!

[jasta11]

I get a lot of that too - seems to be the standard these days.

 

At least it's confirmation to show the JC that you've applied for a job though, which is why I use Reed and CV-Library; not so much for their actual vacancies but for the way they send you nice acknowledgements every time you apply and list all your jobs in their 'My Applications' bit which can easily be printed out for hard evidence.

 

I've never had any faith in any agencies, they've never worked for me at all - and that's based on experience over the last 30 years.

[essexmat]

Just had an email from my INGEUS adviser:

 

 

"Due to unforeseen circumstances I cannot make our 14.00 meeting tomorrow. Can you please come in at 12.30 instead as I need to leave the office at 14.00"

Luckily this is OK for me but when I replied she replied back and said that we need to go through some of my applications. I think this is my first sign of being checked on - luckily I keep everything on a diary and keep all emails and correspondence so I am OK.

 

 

So, look forward to questions such as:

 

 

"Why did you apply for this job?"

The joys of seeing your adviser at the WP!

[Mr.P]

"Due to unforeseen circumstances I cannot make our 14.00 meeting tomorrow. Can you please come in at 12.30 instead as I need to leave the office at 14.00"

 

Errmm... No. You made the appointment in good time. If you want to go get your hair done or broke a nail, don't expect me to rearrange my day to suit you.

"Why did you apply for this job?"

 

Because it was advertised.

[Bakatcha]

Ingeus Deloitte sold to US company

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/ingeus-sold-and-wp-extended.html

 

 

Apparently the only way that profits can be increased is to cut costs further. Who'd have thought it!