Ingeus

[Namaste]

I incredibly appreciate your support people.

 

My worry is that even if I did attempt this on the QT and tell them I was not interested in self employment right now - he would just fly off the handle at me, I don't like confrontation as it is and they can be very intimidating throwing the word sanction around when I have a daughter/wife to look after. Then I'll be thrown onto these mindless courses to consume my time from their perspective - which I simply don't have the time and money for when I'm incredibly passionate about my business working.

 

I know the self employment idea of mine can work, I've seen it and don't a tremendous amount of primary research to know it can work with the right know-how, SEO and good marketing. Ingeus fail to recognize my current position I'm in regarding funds, it's almost like said adviser things I have tons of money to just throw at this idea. He doesn't realize the costs for website hosting, packaging supplies, comic sleeves, comic order costs the list is endless. I can see it in his eyes that all he wants is that bonus, which disheartens me a lot.

 

I have a friend who is an accountant, and he's explained the basics in what the Tax man looks for and how to keep books - so I'm good at that part. It's the funding and none-understanding from Ingeus that's the ultimate problem because I'm in fear of him sanctioning me when I'm trying my best.

 

I'm 24, so I don't know whether the Prince's Trust applies to me - I wouldn't even need that much to get me off the ground;

[jasta11]

Must be incredibly frustrating for you - you're obviously so keen to get your business going yet you're being hampered by having to deal with people like Ingeus.

 

As has been said, the WP is there to make money first and foremost; actually helping people is of secondary consideration. If the WP was run by unpaid volunteers who had nothing to gain financially then maybe we'd see more consideration and genuine help. When I was with Ingeus I recall replying to an advisor who asked 'How can we help you?' with 'As I'm already eminently experienced, qualified and literate you can actually best help by leaving me alone'. Needless to say they didn't.

 

Even if they can't offer you any practical help, they still have to be seen to be doing something to satisfy their DWP masters, so they'll still put you through the various pointless workshops, meetings, etc. It's all about ticking boxes; their boxes. Plus they'll undoubtedly try and claim total credit for you getting your business up and running.

 

I hope you get your business going soon and the best of luck to you.

[biggeorge]

Namaste, How long you been with the WP?

If you have almost done the 2 years I would have a change of mind about the self employed and wait until your returned to the JCP.

You can then apply for NEA a weekly allowance for those going self employed, You have a few hoops to jump through, business plan

and some meetings at your local chamber of commerce but they were good steps for anyone starting a business.

In total there is funds available worth up to £2750.

 

Only problem with the NEA is that you can't claim it while on the WP so you must finish that first.

Princes Trust should also be available to you as your under 30 so if you have loads of time left at WP I would

certainly inquire at Princes Trust about funding.

 

George

[Namaste]

Hi Biggeorge - I've been with the WP for a year, but my business venture is a very fresh idea. He implied that because I've been there for so long I'm becoming of a pest to Ingeus, which is why I'm very uncomfortable going to the building now.

 

I've just filled in an enquiry form at the Princes Trust, hopefully something does come of that.

 

Yes Jasta11, it is very frustrating - I have incredible passion for what I'm wanting to do and being hindered by these road blocks makes it difficult, especially with a family. Thank you for your kind words.

[sillygirl1]

I'm in the same boat, I should have gone self-employed after being made redundant but got very quickly shoved onto the Work Programme instead which was no good to me at all.

 

I've learned that funding is very difficult to come by for non-high tec start up companies, so if you have a 'get rich quick' dot com idea there is funding avialable, but not if it involves stock (nasty word for investors as they may be left with it if the business goes wrong) or fees for the website, supplies etc.

 

Fortunately my packaging comes from my brothers and sisters eBay habit (and my own) and I have managed to get quite a few items very cheaply from an office recycling place.

 

The Princes Trust does all age ranges, especially young ones and disadvantaged groups (ie not in the mainstream disadvantaged) so give them a try, at worst you will have to go on a months course (but I believe they do give you money for that) and then there is access to funding.

 

Don't fall for the Funding Source or other such organisations which charge you for their 'services' and don't provide anything except hassle and masses of marketing emails. I've already reported them to various organisations as they are nothing but cons.

[joeski]

i just want to get a job asap, sometimes i think id get more help in finding work from mr bean than i would from the edited at ingeus. is there anyway you can get a job without having an interview as they are my biggest downfall?

Edited January 15, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative term.

[PandaPawPaw]

Hi, first time post here but I wasn't sure where else to talk about my problem.

 

I am 31, suffer from Depression, OCD, Agoraphobia and have been getting counseling and I am making small steps forward. Also I'm on Roccutane for acne and have various side effects from that.

 

In December iirc I had an appointment at the Job Center with a nice lady from Ingeus who had a good talk with me and my problems and was very understanding. She said I will be contacted on the 8th January from an adviser.

 

Last week I had my first call from Ingeus with said adviser and he seemed OK and he asked me to create a CV and a covering letter which I did and that went well.

 

This week he called me and expects me to suddenly go around handing in my CV to various places I might be interested in. Now I understand that his job is to get the client to do something towards getting a job but I am not even at that stage yet. I questioned this and was made to feel like I was saying 'NO I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO WORK' when in fact I would love to but at the moment it isn't doable. He then bought up stuff about the future and my age which I do admit is getting on a bit but he went as far as to say 'would a girl want to be with this version of you right now?' to which I replied 'no of course not' and felt like I was being forced to say the right things.

 

I have very low self confidence and at the time of the call I lost all ability to defend myself and went along with everything he said and even said I'll try a few places and hand my CV in even though I am not comfortable yet to do anything close to that.

 

So today everything that was said in the call hit me and I feel incredibly upset and keep panicking and have lost all appetite and feel lonely.

 

It doesn't help that he clearly has no idea about any of the conditions I have as he just thinks right do this, this and this and you'll be fine. I have yet to meet him in person as I have only had two telephone calls yet but it is starting to send me back down even though I've been mading slow but steady progress.

 

I've never had any support from the job center and now this guy is doing the same. How can someone with problems go forward if know one listens.

 

[ep1987]

What benefit are you receiving? If you aren't on ESA then you should most definitely apply. You will most likely fail the atos assessment but can appeal and in my case the tribunal is occurring about a year after my initial claim. During this time you are exempt from mandated work related activity and all i have had to do (apart from the atos assessment) is send in sick notes from my GP, although things have obviously been stressful since getting the tribunal date through the post.

 

Once on esa (wrag) then the work programme providers are supposed to take into account your limitations and can't force you to apply for jobs.

[PandaPawPaw]

hi ep1987.

 

I am on ESA as well and have done everything as you have so far except the appealing bit.

 

The guy basically has no interest in what I say and the whole thing about 'no girl wanting me in my current situation' really was over the line. I froze at the time and it only hit me today and I really feel like I was treated very badly. He's there to help with work related stuff not my personal life.

 

I am going to ask to see him on Friday and tell him all my issues and problems with him and ask to change adviser as there is no way I can talk to him after that rude behavior.

 

I will also try to see someone in charge and talk to them too.

 

I can't sleep or do anything as my anxiety has gone through the roof!

Edited January 15, 2014 by PandaPawPaw

[antone]

PandaPawPaw, please note the following, taken from the Work Programme Provider Guidance, chapter 3 (see paragraph 20):

 

20.

When deciding whether activity is reasonable in a participant’s circumstances you need to consider:

 

The participant’s claimant group and how this affects the nature of their participation. For example, although mandatory ESA participants can be supported towards employment they cannot be mandated to:

 

 

• apply for jobs
  
• undertake medical treatment
  
• take up work
  

 

Make sure your adviser is aware that you are an ESA claimant and that therefore the above guidance applies to you.

[antone]

Plus, if an adviser starts telling you that "no girl would want you in your current state" then that's clearly overstepping the bounds of professionalism - your love life or lack thereof is none of his or her business.

[PandaPawPaw]

Antone,

 

Thank you for that, my dad said he'll come for support as I feel incredibly nervous and stressed out and I will see them tomorrow.

 

I will make sure I see someone in charge as well as the adviser clearly has no social skills.

 

I will let you know how it goes.

[Mr.P]

Thank you for that, my dad said he'll come for support as I feel incredibly nervous and stressed out and I will see them tomorrow.

 

I'd also suggest asking for (insisting ?) on a private room and record the conversation. you don't have to tell them that you are recording..

 

Don't forget to get travel expenses refunded in full. If you use a private car, the DWP guidelines state 25p per mile (presumably each way).

[antone]

Antone,

 

Thank you for that, my dad said he'll come for support as I feel incredibly nervous and stressed out and I will see them tomorrow.

 

I will make sure I see someone in charge as well as the adviser clearly has no social skills.

 

I will let you know how it goes.

 

Good luck, and I second Mr P's suggestion to record the conversation.

 

But in any case, while I appreciate that you may feel nervous and lack confidence, you should do your best to make sure that you are treated fairly and in accordance with the rules. It seems to me that sending you out to distribute CVs is not something your adviser should be demanding that you do as per the guidance I quoted above.

 

If the adviser makes any further personal remarks, politely and non-confrontationally deflect them. One example I could think of:

 

Adviser: Do you think any girl would be interested in you right now?

You: That's not something I think about much at the moment - I have other concerns.

 

I'd be more aggressive about that, personally - for some reason what your adviser said really bothers me - but politely refusing to discuss the matter should be enough to shut him up.

[PandaPawPaw]

I've printed the guidance out and will take it with me and refer to it if they are awkward.

 

Thank you so much for the support guys.

[Mr.P]

Adviser: Do you think any girl would be interested in you right now?

You: That's not something I think about much at the moment - I have other concerns.

 

Me: Are you trying to hit on me ???

[antone]

Me: Are you trying to hit on me ???

 

Now that I like.

[antone]

I've printed the guidance out and will take it with me and refer to it if they are awkward.

 

Thank you so much for the support guys.

 

You're welcome, and if you feel able to let us know how it goes, that would be great.

[ep1987]

Taking someone along for support is a good idea. Present them with the relevant guidelines for esa claimants and if they aren't reasonable have your dad politely inform the advisor that a complaint will be lodged. The basis for this is that not only were you pressured into activity not required of someone claiming esa, you were insulted in a very unprofessional manner; the content being especially egregious seeing that your condition should be listed in your information.

 

All being well they may leave you alone for a while and stop hindering your recovery, keep us informed.

[jasta11]

The guy basically has no interest in what I say and the whole thing about 'no girl wanting me in my current situation' really was over the line. (

 

Too right - shame you hadn't been recording the conversations right from the start. I know it can be hard for decent, easy-going people to complain but if it happens again then you should complain, as it won't get any better - like most on here, I've done the 2 years and you need to show at the very start that you're not going to be an easy target for them. Once they know you're wise to all the guidance rules and won't be pushed around they'll treat you with a lot more caution.

 

It shouldn't have to be this way, but sadly that's how it goes when you're forced to work with people whose only interest is in making money, not helping.

[PandaPawPaw]

Hi,

 

So I went today with my dad. We had to park quite far as there was no parking near the actual Ingeus place so that was tough having to walk all that way but I did it.

 

I got there and I asked to see someone in charge but ended up seeing the adviser who I had the issue with. The Secretary wasn't a barrel of laughs and quite moody/uninterested even though I was told 'everyone is friendly here' during my appointment with the Manager last December but oh well I didn't pay too much attention to it and sat down.

 

The wait for really hard as he did come see me before our actual meeting though I didn't shake his hand due to bad eczema I have though I did mention it at the end just so that he knew I wasn't being rude.

 

The meeting started and I asked to change adviser but apparently it's not possible as they change every six months so I'll have a new guy in June anyway. I was very firm though I did say the 'BS' word once though I apologised as I was very, very angry inside and trying to contain it while being firm. I was actually shaking at one point.

 

I mentioned the thing about no girl being interested in me and all that and it came down to him basically approaching me in the wrong way. I am Indian as well as he is and he is a year younger so what he did was use his own experiences of being Indian and applied them to me. In out culture parents can be pushy and all that about marriage.

 

I made sure that he knew that was over the line and has nothing to do with me and this work related course I'm on and it was personal stuff that shouldn't even be discussed unless the client brings it up. Also I said about being pushed to do things I am not ready to and feel like I am not being listened to and what it basically came down to was that his approach to me was wrong from day one.

 

I said you should of treated me as an individual and not compared me to himself as everyone is different and without actually meeting me he can't just guess what my character is like.

 

I explained that things will be very slow and I can't be rushed which he took note of and I feel things will be a lot better.

 

I have learnt to speak my mind now and tell him when I am not comfortable as there is no point trying to please him if I myself am not happy.

 

I may have left some stuff out as I am still recovering from all this but he will be calling me on the 30th and I will make sure if we can space the calls/appointments out.

 

One good thing did happen was that I went with my dad into Sainsbury (I haven't been there in over 10 years) after my appointment so that's one small step forward.

 

I want to thank you all for your support and I am glad I have somewhere I can speak to people without being judged.

[joeski]

Antone,

 

Thank you for that, my dad said he'll come for support as I feel incredibly nervous and stressed out and I will see them tomorrow.

 

I will make sure I see someone in charge as well as the adviser clearly has no social skills.

 

I will let you know how it goes.

 

 

shame you haven't got a recording of the thing saying that to you, sorry im not going to call it an advisor because thats to polite after the way he has treated you.

Edited January 16, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative terms.

[think about it]

i just want to get a job asap, sometimes i think id get more help in finding work from mr bean than i would from the edited at ingeus. is there anyway you can get a job without having an interview as they are my biggest downfall?

 

Joe,

 

I honestly can't say that you'll get into a job without some form of interview. Put yourself in the employers' shoes for a moment and ask if you would employ someone without meeting them first?

 

What help do you think would work when it comes to interviews? No-one can make you feel confident, that you have to do for yourself.

 

So it's down to preparation. Your advisor at Ingeus WILL be a good source of help on this but you may not always like what they say.

 

Interviews are structured, contrived and false - simple really... They're designed to put you, and the other applicants, in a stressful situation to see how you react. They're designed to test suitability and knowledge, they're also used to see if you fit in with the existing team dynamics.

 

I’ve never interviewed anyone I didn’t feel was capable of doing the job based on what I’d seen on an application / CV. To do so is a complete waste of everyone’s time, effort and money. So, if you’re being interviewed it’s because the employer WANTS to give you the job, they just need to check you’re the person you’ve said you are.

 

This might be by asking structed, competency based questions “Tell me about a time…”, it might be asking you to explain past experiences or asking the really awkward questions like “What is your biggest weakness?” (my answer is: Chocolate…).

 

All these questions are set out with one purpose in mind. To see if you really are the person you’ve said you are on the CV, or if it’s been written for you and you don’t have the slightest clue what’s on there.

 

Your advisor can help you prepare, ask them to give you sample questions and think about what your answer would be.

 

I know you’re probably thinking that they don’t know anything and I’m sure someone will reply about how they’re not qualified to professorial level in CBT, ABC or Interviewology. But, they can give you the resources that will help YOU to prepare.

 

It’s well known what questions you’re likely to face dependant upon the type of role you’re applying for so by knowing what to expect (or at least having some forewarning) you can hopefully take away some of the anxiety related to uncertainty.

 

Equally, interviewers are human (well, the last time I checked I still had a pulse…) and can see that someone is nervous and make some allowance for this. However, if I’m interviewing for a role that requires a strong personality in the face of the public then I expect resilience in the controlled environment of an interview.

 

So, in the face of all that, what aspect of the interview is your downfall? Is it nerves, drying up, appearance, language etc etc etc? Your advisor will need to know what you feel will help you succeed. But, avoidance won’t work – it’s like any other issue. I’m arachnaphobic but I can’t eliminate spiders from my house so I learn to deal with them. I make sure that I’m able to deal with them despite the fact they are my downfall by just getting it over and done with.

 

So, what’s your thing? What would make the difference when your ‘spider’ walks out across the floor? Is it accepting that it’s just a spider, probably hasn’t realised I’m even there and certainly doesn’t want to eat me? Because, it’s just an interview, the only reason the employer wants you there is to give you the job and they certainly don’t want to eat you…

[joeski]

Joe,

 

I honestly can't say that you'll get into a job without some form of interview. Put yourself in the employers' shoes for a moment and ask if you would employ someone without meeting them first?

 

What help do you think would work when it comes to interviews? No-one can make you feel confident, that you have to do for yourself.

 

So it's down to preparation. Your advisor at Ingeus WILL be a good source of help on this but you may not always like what they say.

 

Interviews are structured, contrived and false - simple really... They're designed to put you, and the other applicants, in a stressful situation to see how you react. They're designed to test suitability and knowledge, they're also used to see if you fit in with the existing team dynamics.

 

I’ve never interviewed anyone I didn’t feel was capable of doing the job based on what I’d seen on an application / CV. To do so is a complete waste of everyone’s time, effort and money. So, if you’re being interviewed it’s because the employer WANTS to give you the job, they just need to check you’re the person you’ve said you are.

 

This might be by asking structed, competency based questions “Tell me about a time…”, it might be asking you to explain past experiences or asking the really awkward questions like “What is your biggest weakness?” (my answer is: Chocolate…).

 

All these questions are set out with one purpose in mind. To see if you really are the person you’ve said you are on the CV, or if it’s been written for you and you don’t have the slightest clue what’s on there.

 

Your advisor can help you prepare, ask them to give you sample questions and think about what your answer would be.

 

I know you’re probably thinking that they don’t know anything and I’m sure someone will reply about how they’re not qualified to professorial level in CBT, ABC or Interviewology. But, they can give you the resources that will help YOU to prepare.

 

It’s well known what questions you’re likely to face dependant upon the type of role you’re applying for so by knowing what to expect (or at least having some forewarning) you can hopefully take away some of the anxiety related to uncertainty.

 

Equally, interviewers are human (well, the last time I checked I still had a pulse…) and can see that someone is nervous and make some allowance for this. However, if I’m interviewing for a role that requires a strong personality in the face of the public then I expect resilience in the controlled environment of an interview.

 

So, in the face of all that, what aspect of the interview is your downfall? Is it nerves, drying up, appearance, language etc etc etc? Your advisor will need to know what you feel will help you succeed. But, avoidance won’t work – it’s like any other issue. I’m arachnaphobic but I can’t eliminate spiders from my house so I learn to deal with them. I make sure that I’m able to deal with them despite the fact they are my downfall by just getting it over and done with.

 

So, what’s your thing? What would make the difference when your ‘spider’ walks out across the floor? Is it accepting that it’s just a spider, probably hasn’t realised I’m even there and certainly doesn’t want to eat me? Because, it’s just an interview, the only reason the employer wants you there is to give you the job and they certainly don’t want to eat you…

 

 

its everything really, i get very nervous about interviews and it shows..i mumble and stammer and even though i do loads of preparation to plan how im going to answer questions when it comes to the interview i always mess up. basically i plan what im going say and how im going to answer questions but when it comes to the actual interview it doesn't come out the way i had planned if that makes sense.

[Perseus1]

I found the best policy was to formally request a new advisor through the comments process. Do not make a complaint but cite incomapatibility of personalities, or you just think you would be more likely to find a job with another advisor. It worked for me.