Ingeus

[Mr.P]

Always threaten to complain directly to the DWP, no point in complaining to Ingeus managers as they're hardly likely to take our side.

 

Always remember that we're not the ones acting like we make the rules - they are.

 

Do not make threats. Take a proactive role and do it. If WP staff ignore official DWP guidance and fail to follow "due process", they could be in breach of their contract - The more serious the failings of the provider, the higher up the ladder at the DWP a complaint should be sent to. The complaints will invariably get passed back to the provider where they will try to write it off as a disgruntled client trying to make trouble. Having evidence, either written or video/audio recordings is always advantageous to have should the provider try to brush it under the carpet.

[tfp]

I made a complaint about an Ingeus adviser (lets call her M) some time ago. She was just one of several Ingeus drones I had appointed to me. However, she was the worst. M asked me what sort of jobs I was looking for. I replied "design, print, IT, sales, customer service..." she said I was not being "specific enough" despite the fact that we're often told NOT to limit ourselves to just one industry or sector.

 

When I mentioned that I wished to pursue self employment, M tried to berate me for not "telling her this right away" and as a result, I could not be serious! The fact that I mentioned this to TWO prior advisers made no odds as the details were not in front of her eyes on her PC's monitor. M then practically accused me of lying. I replied "just because your IT systems don't work or the staff here cannot enter simple details is not my problem". M then asked for my CV to be emailed to her prior to the next appointment a couple of weeks later.

 

I turned a fortnight later with my CV in PDF format on a USB flash drive. The odd thing was that M wanted me to still email my CV to her from another PC even though we were just a couple of metres apart. Why she could not have taken it straight from my flash drive, God only knows! However, I made sure that I added extra security features by disabling the ability to copy text and print. It was rather funny watching M trying to print a copy and thus thinking the laser printer was broken!

 

M then asked for a CV in word format. I asked why. "So I can 'tweak' it and send it off to employers" was her reply. I refused. "DO WOT YOU WANT THEN" was M's eloquent reply.

 

I did not want M as my adviser. She was rude, abrupt and incompetent. The next day I formally complained to Ingeus. The manager at the Ingeus branch I attended was very apologetic and arranged a meeting with me, him and M. He also arranged for me to have a new adviser. Which knowing the WP would've happened anyway. Sadly, the meeting never materialised. However, I did feel a lot better for being assertive and taking decisive action.

 

Remember, when on New Deal, Flexible New Deal, Work Program or whatever failing scheme succeeds it, you're always referred to as a client / customer. As such, you have the right to complain if something is not to your satisfaction. Just as you would with any other business.

[irelivent]

It's been a while my friends but I'm back again and glad to say that I'm finally off of ingeus from the first of september.

 

Today I was forced into an appointment with my second advisor at 8:30am, I attended and my advisor was not there, he was on holiday yet still forcing me to attend with no information as to what he expected, another advisor forced me to do spec letters. I sent a letter of complaint to my first advisor and spoke to her when she arrived at work. We went into a private room after she read the email and she was apologetic about it, considering I'd told her that I refuse to be brought in to do the same stuff I do at home and use their slow internet, slow computers, insecure internet explorer and most likely insecure network.

 

I was told that she'd cancel my next appointments leading up to my leave in a weeks time or so so I didn't have to go back, which was looking good for the day until I got home and found a letter from the DWP waiting for me.

 

Apparently, a new law was passed recently that allowed them to sanction people for not attending a Work Programme appointment. I hadn't attended an appointment on the 30th of January 2013. This being 8 month before the law was in place, and I had just received notice of the appointment on the day of the appointment (not the first time this has happened) and sent the advisor an email. The advisor replied later on stating that it was too late and the doubt had been raised so there was really nothing I could do.

 

I'm pretty sure I was sanctioned for it and then I receive an information only letter today saying I'm sanctioned for 2 month due to something that happened in January. There's no information on this letter about an appeal and claims I want be paid from 06/08/2013, 13 days before the letter of notice was sent.

[Mr.P]

I hadn't attended an appointment on the 30th of January 2013. This being 8 month before the law was in place, and I had just received notice of the appointment on the day of the appointment (not the first time this has happened)

 

Do you still have the original letter and the envelope it came in ?

 

DWP issued guidance clearly states that a reasonable time must be allowed between sending a mandatory letter out. Posting a letter 2nd class for an appointment three days later is unacceptable as Royal Mail quote a 3-7 day delivery. First class post is slightly better with a 1-3 day delivery - If you need official delivery targets and numbers for missed targets, drop me a note.

 

Your reconsideration should emphasise the point that posting a letter for it to arrive on the day of the appointment (if postie delivered after the time, even better) does not allow sufficient time to travel to the meeting and demonstrates a complete lack of regard on the part of the provider towards published DWP guidance.

[irelivent]

The date on the letter is 19th, but I didn't receive it until it was too late, royal mail still doesn't guarantee that it'll be 3-7 days and it can take longer than that, that's just the most common times.

 

I've got the original letter, I keep all documents from DWP/Ingeus incase of **** like this but I can't find any letter from the DWP informing me of the missed appointment and giving me a chance to appeal.

 

Considering the rule of law

This all happened before this law was passed, since it wasn't within the law to sanction me at the time of the appointment, they can not then sanction me 8 month later after it has became law.

 

I don't even have the formal letter about the decision yet, which tells me how to appeal etc.

[Mr.P]

Unfortunately, the legislation that the DWP is using to sanction you has a retrospective clause in it that allows them to get away with it - It sucks and sets a very unpleasant precedent. You are not the first to find this out either, see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?400247-Sanctions-Twelve-Months-after-Doubt

 

Royal Mail claim to deliver 98.5% of 2nd class with 3-5 days. However, industrial disputes or bad weather will impact on this target. You can also expect delays at Christmas time, and if RM have a bad time of it (as they did a couple of years ago due to heavy snow across the country), delays will continue well in to January. Check to see if there were any strikes in your area by RM workers in January.

 

As you have received notice of a sanction, I'd advise writing back to the DWP stating that:

 

• The original appointment letter failed to arrive in good time due to delays in posting and in delivery.
  
• An email was sent as soon as the letter arrived (include a printout).
  
• No notice was issued by the DWP advising of a benefit doubt.
  
• Have yet to receive proper notification along with any details of the appeals process.
  

A visit to your local CAB office may also help in drafting a suitable letter to get the appeal process running. They will probably also give you advice about dealing with the council when your HB/CT benefits get suspended.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Mr.P

[joeski]

i wonder how big these ingeus advisors would be if one of their claimants they are supose to be helping find work turned up on their door step?! they'd be no where to hide and no colleagues to back them up haha

 

 

yeah sorry to be weird and that but i think these advisors let the job go to their heads.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

i wonder how big these ingeus advisors would be if one of their claimants they are supose to be helping find work turned up on their door step?! they'd be no where to hide and no colleagues to back them up haha

 

 

yeah sorry to be weird and that but i think these advisors let the job go to their heads.

According to another poster, one of the Welfare To Work Cleks is called a .... "Work Consultant". A baloneous term which was widespread through the Flexible New Deal (within A4E and Working Links), and quite offensive to Real Consultants.

[joeski]

According to another poster, one of the Welfare To Work Cleks is called a .... "Work Consultant". A baloneous term which was widespread through the Flexible New Deal (within A4E and Working Links), and quite offensive to Real Consultants.

 

 

i don't see the advisors at ingeus as anything really apart from pathetic little people, take them away from he job and they are nothing.

[jonruti]

i don't see the advisors at ingeus as anything really apart from pathetic little people, take them away from he job and they are nothing.

 

At my last appointment my Advisor asked me how much job search I did by telephone and I said none, because I cannot afford to run a mobile phone and my home phone is used for my family's business (they run a market stall), so I cannot make numerous outgoing calls to companies. Then he stated "That's OK, I only do my jobsearch by computer". In other words, he is looking for another job, which confirms my opinion of him as a pretty decent bloke who ideally has no place within the Welfare-to-Work Industry. I think they are mostly just workers doing their jobs, although one or two are nasty pieces of work. I speak as someone who is a week into a 2 week sanction for failing to attend a job interview "without good reason", although I feel an emergency doctors appointment for diabetes and stress is a pretty good reason for non-attendance!. The Work Programme is a glorified sales job, where managers and supervisors bully their staff into achieving targets of various types, so the company gets paid and they get their cushy salaries. I would say of my present WP provider that most of the staff would get jobs elsewhere if they existed, but only as Administrative Clerks. The nasty ones wouldn't last a week as normal workers wouldn't put up with them.

[jasta11]

'The Work Programme is a glorified sales job, where managers and supervisors bully their staff into achieving targets of various types, so the company gets paid and they get their cushy salaries.'

 

Spot on. One of my Ingeus advisors used to be a car salesman; the only 'admin' work he would have done was with car finance documents... then he applies to Ingeus, gets the job (probably because of his pushy sales background) and hey presto! - he's now an Employment Advisor, suddenly able to offer clients his wealth of 'careers experience'. I wonder if Ingeus actually gave him a whole day's training or did they just let him loose on the clients immediately??

 

Would I buy a used car off this man? Er..well...

[citizenB]

PLEASE NOTE:

 

Whatever your feelings are towards the advisors, we ask that you do not use derogatory terms for them.

[joeski]

PLEASE NOTE:

 

Whatever your feelings are towards the advisors, we ask that you do not use derogatory terms for them.

 

 

maybe if the advisors behaved better then there would be no need to be derogatory, they have brought it on themselves tbh!

[antone]

maybe if the advisors behaved better then there would be no need to be derogatory, they have brought it on themselves tbh!

 

Oh maybe, maybe not. But there's no need to lower the tone here. In fact, there's a need not to lower the tone here. So let's not, yeah?

[stilljobless]

Ingeus (is that meant to be an anagram of Genius?) is just another of the governments epic fail work programs that needs to be shut down and stop wasting money. They pay Ingeus about £500 per person who goes there and just like the other programs (Best, A4E) all it is is job search. You see an "advisor" who takes down some details, says "Welcome to Ingeus" and then outlines the master plan to get you back in to work which consists of you searching the internet for jobs and applying for any you find suitable....so exactly the same as what I have been doing then before I came here. In the current job market unemployed people really need training and practical work experience to beef up their CV's and show potential employers they have experience and can do the job, they dont need help with job search they know how to do that already.

 

For anyone who doesn't know how to do job search here is a quick guide for you:

1) Search for jobs

2) Apply for suitable jobs you find

...end of guide.

 

Like other people I've read posts from on this forum I've just finished my 2-year sentence at Ingeus and yes sadly I'm still unemployed. When I first started I was given an personal advisor who I had a 15-20 minute chat with as an introduction and then was given some targets to meet and pieces of paper to fill out and bring with me at my next appointment the week after. I continued to see my advisor once a week for about 4 weeks in a row and then for some reason without notice I was given a completely new advisor (maybe he didn't like me so passed me on to someone else ) so I saw the new advisor for about 2 weeks and then he sent me to some council run job search program. I had no idea why he sent me there because Ingeus is a job search program so why send me to a different one? ..anyway I went to this council program for the induction and again had to give some info and tell them what jobs I was looking for and they said rite we will be in touch with you next week and invite you in for job search ...this is the good bit....5 and a half months later I got a letter from Ingeus with my next appointment. Yes the council program NEVER got back in touch with me and I guess passed me back to my advisor at Ingeus. I went to the appointment and told my advisor that they never got back to me and he just laughed and said "They didn't?" to which I replied "No!" and then he just gave me a printout of my next advisor appointment and that was it. I went to my next appointment 3 weeks later and I was mysteriously given yet another new advisor (at this point I started to smell my armpits worried I was driving people away because I smell funny) and she checked my job search and said it was fine and that she would be in touch with my next appointment soon (I saw her a few times before the end of my 2-year sentence). That was my last advisor and I think in total over the 2-year period I had about 10-12 appointments in total...10-12...how are Ingeus meant to help me back in to work if they hardly ever see me or do anything to help me besides telling me to do job search? absolute rubbish and a waste of money!.

 

As soon as my time at Ingeus ended I got a letter from the job centre informing me that because my program at Ingeus had ended I will now be seeing an advisor once a week at the job centre for the next 6 months who will help me back in to work, my first appointment was 3 weeks ago and I'm still waiting for my next one even though I'm meant to see them weekly...nice.

 

I wish there was a program that actually worked!.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Ingeus (is that meant to be an anagram of Genius?) is just another of the governments epic fail work programs that needs to be shut down and stop wasting money. They pay Ingeus about £500 per person who goes there and just like the other programs (Best, A4E) all it is is job search. You see an "advisor" who takes down some details, says "Welcome to Ingeus" and then outlines the master plan to get you back in to work which consists of you searching the internet for jobs and applying for any you find suitable....so exactly the same as what I have been doing then before I came here. In the current job market unemployed people really need training and practical work experience to beef up their CV's and show potential employers they have experience and can do the job, they dont need help with job search they know how to do that already.

 

For anyone who doesn't know how to do job search here is a quick guide for you:

1) Search for jobs

2) Apply for suitable jobs you find

...end of guide.

 

Like other people I've read posts from on this forum I've just finished my 2-year sentence at Ingeus and yes sadly I'm still unemployed. When I first started I was given an personal advisor who I had a 15-20 minute chat with as an introduction and then was given some targets to meet and pieces of paper to fill out and bring with me at my next appointment the week after. I continued to see my advisor once a week for about 4 weeks in a row and then for some reason without notice I was given a completely new advisor (maybe he didn't like me so passed me on to someone else ) so I saw the new advisor for about 2 weeks and then he sent me to some council run job search program. I had no idea why he sent me there because Ingeus is a job search program so why send me to a different one? ..anyway I went to this council program for the induction and again had to give some info and tell them what jobs I was looking for and they said rite we will be in touch with you next week and invite you in for job search ...this is the good bit....5 and a half months later I got a letter from Ingeus with my next appointment. Yes the council program NEVER got back in touch with me and I guess passed me back to my advisor at Ingeus. I went to the appointment and told my advisor that they never got back to me and he just laughed and said "They didn't?" to which I replied "No!" and then he just gave me a printout of my next advisor appointment and that was it. I went to my next appointment 3 weeks later and I was mysteriously given yet another new advisor (at this point I started to smell my armpits worried I was driving people away because I smell funny) and she checked my job search and said it was fine and that she would be in touch with my next appointment soon (I saw her a few times before the end of my 2-year sentence). That was my last advisor and I think in total over the 2-year period I had about 10-12 appointments in total...10-12...how are Ingeus meant to help me back in to work if they hardly ever see me or do anything to help me besides telling me to do job search? absolute rubbish and a waste of money!.

 

As soon as my time at Ingeus ended I got a letter from the job centre informing me that because my program at Ingeus had ended I will now be seeing an advisor once a week at the job centre for the next 6 months who will help me back in to work, my first appointment was 3 weeks ago and I'm still waiting for my next one even though I'm meant to see them weekly...nice.

 

I wish there was a program that actually worked!.

Potted History .... Theresa Reine (wife of Australian PM Kevin Rudd) established a consultancy in 1988 "Theresa Reine and Associates", delivering remedial services to ex offenders, and in due course, and after growing Internationally acquring companies such as Work Directions in the UK, rebranded themselves as "Ingeus" to reflect "Human Ingenuity". I think Ingeus UK was established in August 2010.

 

In terms of the people you saw at Ingeus, the "Process" (Every Day Counts Service Delivery Model ( http://ingeusstaff.co.uk/diagram ), would assign Welfare To Work Clerks to the candidate when they entered a particular state.

One W2W Clerk would be assigned at the beginning (Insight Weeks 1-4). Another to Intensive Support (Weeks 5-16). Another for Skills Plus (Weeks 17-52, comprising a Personal Routeway and Vocational Routeway), and finally Breakthrough (Weeks 53-104). When assigned a Vocational Routeway, the candidate would more than likely be sent for 13 weeks to another organisation - which could have been the Council in your case.

 

In terms of the Council Program - it may have been the case that, after seeing you initially, the Council withdrew from the Work Programme, but did not have the courtesy to advise you and other candidates of the state of affairs.

 

For your own satisfaction - it may be worth contacting the Council to find out the reason why, after being referred to them, and attending a meeting, they ignored you.

 

For your penance.... how many Job Interviews (either face to face or telephone) were arranged as a direct consequence of any effort on the part of Welfare To Work Clerks within Ingeus? Did they even suggest that you seek Voluntary Work or a Placement within a company ?

 

********************************************************

 

PLEASE NOTE:

 

Whatever your feelings are towards the advisors, we ask that you do not use derogatory terms for them.

Please note that, irrespective of whether dealing with Front Line Advisers in Job Centre Plus or Welfare To Work Clerks associated with the Work Programme, they are not Professional Careers Advisers, and if they treat candidates with respect, this should be noted - if, conversely, they treat candidates with disdain, contempt, this FACT should be reported for wider dissemination - irrespective of whether some find such FACTS difficult to accept.

Edited August 23, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[joeski]

Oh maybe, maybe not. But there's no need to lower the tone here. In fact, there's a need not to lower the tone here. So let's not, yeah?

 

true lets not lower the tone and sink to their level, i feel ashamed that i lowered myself to such a low level

[Mikey121]

About the changing advisers, my adviser told me when it was time to change that they do it to stop *getting stale*, and that a fresh pair of eyes might be helpful, stuff like that.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

About the changing advisers, my adviser told me when it was time to change that they do it to stop *getting stale*, and that a fresh pair of eyes might be helpful, stuff like that.

 

But all advisors are as bad as each other! i am now on my 5th advisor and ive only just started my 2nd year on ingeus. i have been told i will be stuck with this one till the end, but i dont believe a word of it.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

But all advisors are as bad as each other! i am now on my 5th advisor and ive only just started my 2nd year on ingeus. i have been told i will be stuck with this one till the end, but i dont believe a word of it.

If you are on the final phase of the Work Programme with Ingeus, entitled "Breakthrough" (http://ingeusstaff.co.uk/diagram) , then it is possible....the first phase only lasted 4 weeks, with breakthrough scheduled to cover weeks 53-104

[Charlotte_Henderson]

If you are on the final phase of the Work Programme with Ingeus, entitled "Breakthrough" (http://ingeusstaff.co.uk/diagram) , then it is possible....the first phase only lasted 4 weeks, with breakthrough scheduled to cover weeks 53-104

 

Breakthrough in what, getting rid of ingeus all together....................Well i live in hope

[Mr Happy77]

I had a message on my voicemail advising me that my next mandatory appointment has been cancelled due to training. It was from someone identifying themselves as being from Ingeus and using an Ingeus number but not my adviser.

 

Do I take it at face value or go anyway and get face to face confirmation?

[Mr.P]

If you use email to communicate with them, ask for conformation from your "adviser".

Failing that, save the voicemail (if you can) on to disk and take the day off.

[Lorise]

Sadly don't think Ingeus are going anywhere any time soon.....I saw one of the advisors from the office I was sent too on FB (mutual friend of a friend) saying in her status how stoked she was because they had reached the targets for their office (Newcastle ) and others were saying "yes we are back" Newcastle rules etc so what ever they are doing (which was Sweet...F...A...when I was on WP) they seem to be happy about their progress....Plus can't see the Government ever admitting their were wrong when it comes the how rubbish the WP actually is.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

I had a message on my voicemail advising me that my next mandatory appointment has been cancelled due to training. It was from someone identifying themselves as being from Ingeus and using an Ingeus number but not my adviser.

 

Do I take it at face value or go anyway and get face to face confirmation?

 

If it was an ingeus number that rung you, forget about it and enjoy your day off