Ingeus

[osdset]

but the great proportion of people in this country are fixated with the idea of being 'rich and or famous' whilst we are constantly bombarded by images and stories of how these people live and how we should aspire to this lifestlye

Fixated about keeping out of the gutter more like, it's the vast gap between the very well off, and let's say, the average poster on here that bothers me, no one should be placed in the position where they have to choose between paying bills and eating or keeping warm but that's the reality of daily life for many and it's morally reprehensible.

 

I have no problem with anyone who earned a fortune off the sweat of their brow, I can even to a degree accept those that inherited a bundle so long as they bugger off somewhere else and keep quiet about, it but it's the self righteous Lord Fauntleroy's who are running this so called democracy, who have inherited a shed load, earn seriously good salaries, and claim for petty items like a TV licence which is paid for by those that have to work damn hard for every penny they receive, it cannot be right, it's not right, and the worst thing is, we are all putting up with it.

[debt4get]

i quite agree os...us the silent majority are being ruled by these people, democracy in this country is a joke, and a unfortunately nothing short of a revolution is going to change anything....i trust neither of the 2 main parties, we have been lied and conned equally by both....yet we in uk continue to vote for these self serving idiots

[jimduf22]

Just attended ingeus for my appointment at 9am this morning. When i got there i was told my appointment is not for today but for 2moro and they had sent me a letter stating this. Having never received a letter i asked her to print it off. She did this and when i looked at the letter it had my appointment for the 24th. Now i no this date has been changed because the letter i did receive had the appointment for the 23rd today. I didn't mention that i had this letter. Im waiting for my next appointment to see what my advisor has to say first.

[Ktker]

Just found this forum - Brilliant! I was flung over to ingeus in Feb - had a 'little girl' interview me and was asked if I thought not having a GSE in Maths and English was a barrier to me finding work? told her I had a computer science degree and 20 years experience in Project management, fund management contract ,management etc - and that she obviously failed her GSE or she could have devised from my CV that I had more qualifications and experience than she will ever have in her life-time!

Got another appointment two weeks later but on route to Ingeus got a text from head office saying not to bother going in as said advisor has left company 'abruptly'! - did not hear from them for another 4 months and when I did go in after that time I was told I had missed two appointments - I asked to see the letters and she could not print them off for me! she also said that since I have been on the program for so long without getting a job I now need to go on the 'intensive' program, which means I need to see an advisor every week. I argued that as I had not been seen for four months that it was their fault!! not mine and that I will not be in there every week.

Nest appointment I had, I phoned in sick as I had a stomach bug - second appointment I called in the week before and told then I was attending local college open day as I was considering full-time education-they said that was fine and another appointment would be made - next appointment was for 3.30pm and I called them when I got the letter and told them that I would not be able to attend as I have a child to pick up from school - and that they know not to give me appointments which co-insides with school runs!

I now have a letter from JCP to say they are going to sanction me for 3 missed appointments!!!

Can't wait for the DWP to contact me with their "survey" in relation to Ingeus - I'll be on that phone for hours!!

[Nystagmite]

Do JCP know you have a child for whom your responsible for?

[debt4get]

i have decided to look on the bright side from now on.....at least we will have the most educated shelf fillers in the whole of western world!!!

[Ktker]

Yes - and that she is disabled! Ingeus are also aware of this and have even met her as I had to bring her along to a meeting with them once!

[Dalar 1]

Can someone help please with regard to Mandatory activity. I received a phonecall on Tuesday informing me that I would have to partake in mandatory activity and to expect a call giving details and to start 28th August. I still have not received that call and assume now it will be Friday. I have had a terrible morning with my Provider and it ended up in a row over my expenses, which happens everytime I ask for them. I asked who was to pay my expenses when I go on this activity which is for 2 weeks 9-5 and two weeks part-time totalling 4 weeks in all I was told by my advisor that it was not their responsibility and it ended up in a row and being told about my attitude and that no wonder I could not get a job with my attitude.

 

I went to the Jobcentre and was told it was their responsibility for expenses and they have signed a contract for this. It has now come to a formal complaint being written to G4S and a GL24 to the jobcentre. My query is having just read on Work Programme guidance provided on this site, is that, it says mandatory work should be given in writing specifying what activity is to be required, when and where....etc. I have received nothing in writing only the advisor telling me its part of the Work Programme and when I asked what would happen if my mother needs a doctors appointment(I have to take her on Friday)again whilst I'm on this activity, the reply came back I would have to tell them(JTJ Kent) as its mandatory. This is for a BTEC Level 1 in Workskills which includes "Managing your own money" I am 60 years old!!!

 

Everytime I ask questions about anything I am spoken to in a manner that belittles me in front of other people and advisors, which has resulted in this complaint today and leaving me tonight completely distressed. Is anyone able to confirm this for me please. Many thanks

[debt4get]

i believe if they are mandatory, you have to attend or face a sanction on benefits, it is certainly their responsibility to ensure that you are paid your expenses...however, that said getting it seems a different matter! well done for complaining, also email your mp and complain to them as well...the w2w providers are under the misapprehension that the only reason people are on benefits is 'because of their poor attitude'!!!

they should be providing you with written confirmation of what it is you are being mandated to do.

also have a look here for some more tips

http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/welfare-to-work

[debt4get]

oh and when you get to the 'managing your money' course...make sure you keep the bu**ers minds well focused on your expenses, in fact if it was me i would be bringing it up every 2 mins!! wonder if they have a 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs' course?

[Bakatcha]

Hi Dalar you say:

Can someone help please with regard to Mandatory activity. I received a phonecall on Tuesday informing me that I would have to partake in mandatory activity and to expect a call giving details and to start 28th August. I still have not received that call and assume now it will be Friday. I have had a terrible morning with my Provider and it ended up in a row over my expenses, which happens everytime I ask for them. I asked who was to pay my expenses when I go on this activity which is for 2 weeks 9-5 and two weeks part-time totalling 4 weeks in all I was told by my advisor that it was not their responsibility and it ended up in a row and being told about my attitude and that no wonder I could not get a job with my attitude.

 

I went to the Jobcentre and was told it was their responsibility for expenses and they have signed a contract for this. It has now come to a formal complaint being written to G4S and a GL24 to the jobcentre. My query is having just read on Work Programme guidance provided on this site, is that, it says mandatory work should be given in writing specifying what activity is to be required, when and where....etc. I have received nothing in writing only the advisor telling me its part of the Work Programme and when I asked what would happen if my mother needs a doctors appointment(I have to take her on Friday)again whilst I'm on this activity, the reply came back I would have to tell them(JTJ Kent) as its mandatory. This is for a BTEC Level 1 in Workskills which includes "Managing your own money" I am 60 years old!!!

 

Everytime I ask questions about anything I am spoken to in a manner that belittles me in front of other people and advisors, which has resulted in this complaint today and leaving me tonight completely distressed. Is anyone able to confirm this for me please. Many thanks

 

I am assuming that you are a victim of the Work Programme in which case your pimp has to abide by the DWP guidelines.. Full document here:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml#work_prog.

The relevant bit is 3a "mandation"

para 4 states:

The following steps must be taken on every occasion you want to mandate a participant to do something:

•

Ensure that the activity is reasonable in the participant’s circumstances

•

Notify the participant in writing on a Mandatory Activity Notification (MAN):

o

The specific action that they are required to undertake

o

When or by when they must undertake it

o

That the action is mandatory

o

What evidence, if any, they must supply to demonstrate completion

o

The potential consequences should the participant fail to comply. Required wording: If you do not undertake the activities required in this notification your benefit could be affected

o

You must for Employment Support Allowance (ESA) participants only, state on the notification that ‘this activity forms part of your work-related activity action plan.’

•

The MAN must be either handed direct to the participant or sent by post

•

Record the above information (the MAN) along with all other ongoing mandatory requirements in a single action planning document (Further information regarding Action Planning can be found in Work Programme Guidance Chapter 3b – Action Planning.

It appears that your pimp is ignorant of these obligations or has chosen to ignore them!

 

Please note the comment a couple of lines further on:

If you fail to mandate correctly any sanction imposed would not be underpinned by the legal framework.

I would feel a bit reassured that ultimately the mandation at present has not been correctly done and therfore any attempt to sanction you will fail.

 

Personally I would complain in writing.

 

I would also argue that the proposed mandated activity is not reasonable "Ensure that the activity is reasonable in the participant’s circumstances" as it is required to be by DWP guidelines - quote chapter and verse.

Hope this helps.

[debt4get]

excellent advise, my problem with though is the wording of document....'ensure that the activity is reasonable in the participants circumstances' it is the word 'reasonable' ...this sounds to me like their get out word..what may be reasonable to me and you could be different to what they say.......and as dwp seem to erring on the side of providers, i would be wary of not attending anything that is of the 'mandated' variety, if they do sanction, and judging from the posters original posting they are already at loggerheads with the provider...who seems will look for any excuse to sanction, they are already trying to get out of paying expenses...i would certainly complain to jcp, providers, and anyone else whom i could think of.....but we know from experience on here that any one not attending these 'mandated' activities leave themselves open to benefit sanctions.....

[Dalar 1]

Thank you all for your responses. I've not had a problem with going on the Mandatory Work I just wanted to know if they had to put it in writing which it seems they should, so as was said, if I were to do anything that requires a sanction then they, I assume, will not have a leg to stand on. Thats what I'm after as these people really are not fit for purpose at the moment.

 

I finally got my call this afternoon after me having to contact their HO to find out why I didn't get a call sooner. I will go on Tuesday and asked the guy on the phone who was responsible for my expenses and he has confirmed ATS, my provider. So thats 2 now confirming so ATS are wrong in telling me they do not pay expenses. This all the rows are about is expenses and the payment of. Its getting that I can't be bothered asking anymore. Debt4get.... I will mention about the expenses at the "How to manage your money" part..lol will keep on about it. Also thanks for the link, its really helpful. I volunteered for CAB before WP and gave it up for the WP as the providers told me I could not do it. Now it seems I should have stayed, very annoyed about that.

 

All I have to do now is wait for the complaints I made to be answered and see where we go from here and yes it was on my list to let as many people know what is going on as well. Many thanks.

[debt4get]

yes, you not asking any more is what they hoping for.....make sure you keep on at them....they are making good money out of these 'courses' and the very least should be paying your expenses, also if you are there all day, you should i believe be getting a meal allowance....if you have signed any data protection waiver make sure you revoke it at earliest opportunity, as these idiots are looking for big payout when and if you manage to get a job...highly unlikely in this climate but you never know.....

[RebeccaPidgeon]

excellent advise, my problem with though is the wording of document....'ensure that the activity is reasonable in the participants circumstances' it is the word 'reasonable' ...this sounds to me like their get out word..what may be reasonable to me and you could be different to what they say.......and as dwp seem to erring on the side of providers, i would be wary of not attending anything that is of the 'mandated' variety, if they do sanction, and judging from the posters original posting they are already at loggerheads with the provider...who seems will look for any excuse to sanction, they are already trying to get out of paying expenses...i would certainly complain to jcp, providers, and anyone else whom i could think of.....but we know from experience on here that any one not attending these 'mandated' activities leave themselves open to benefit sanctions.....

In terms of the statement "ensure that the activity is reasonable in the participants circumstances", I think I would address this issue by explicitly referring to the Job Goal defined within the Job Seekers Agreement, and reported to the WP Pimp at the time the candidate is referred to the WP.

If the candidate is skilled and qualified to address this job goal, and ample opportunities are available locally, then whatever activity is proposed outside of this job goal may be considered unreasonable.

 

However, given that the Work Programme is predicated on a "Black Box" approach, and that W2W Pimps may not be in the best position to assess what should be considered to be a "reasonable activity", the issue as to their competence may be raised. Has the person proposing the MWA ever been employed as a Professional Careers Advisor, and if not, on what basis could they possibly use to assess the Skills Profile of a candidate deemed suitable for MWA

 

From the employers perspective, if they are expecting candidates to be present at a specific location between distinct time frames, reporting to a named Supervisor within the organisation, and expected to deliver skills to whatever role is assigned, then there may well exist a defacto Contract of Employment.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/contracts_of_employment.htm

 

If a defacto Contract of Employment Exists, irrespective of whether the candidate is assigned to MWA, there may be a legal case to answer, not solely in terms of the employer replacing a Salaried Staff member with Unpaid Slave, but by virtue of "obtaining pecuniary advantage through deception", and not simply evading the payment of salary, but also of tax and national insurance.

 

There may be a legal case to answer, and I suggest that you discuss the options with the Citizens Advice Bureau -after commencing the MWA, there be a case for the Placement Organisation facing litigation, and paying not simply the National Minimum Wage, but the cost of your labour.

[debt4get]

whilst i agree with everything you say..havent we already been down this route with the judicial review in the cat reilly case where it was ruled that a mandated work activity is in fact lawful. and does not breach other laws relating to nmw

[RebeccaPidgeon]

whilst i agree with everything you say..havent we already been down this route with the judicial review in the cat reilly case where it was ruled that a mandated work activity is in fact lawful. and does not breach other laws relating to nmw

The Cat Reilly only addressed one facet... that it breached Human Rights. It did not delve into the efficacy of the Black Box Approach underlying the Work Programme, nor concerns raised by the Public Accounts Committee that the Public Purse may not be given value for money.

 

If, as suggested by a Judicial Ruling into internships, candidates may not waive away the right to receive the National Minimum Wage, then by implication if a candidate has to be present in an organisation at a specified time, deliver skills in accordance with the dictate of a supervisor, and achieve outcomes, if there exists a defacto Contract of Employment, there may be a legal case to address if the employer fails to reward either the candidate for their labour, and for society at large through the payment of Tax and National Insurance.

 

Simply threatening an employer that the candidate may take them to court may provoke a positive response.

Edited August 25, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Grammar

[HONDA17]

ANY ONE LOOKING FOR A JOB

 

Country: UK

Region: North West

Location: Wirral (Birkenhead)

Job type: Full time

Contract Type: Permanent

 

Salary: £22000 - £26000

Car Allowance: Not Applicable

Job Ref: A4e00998

Role Type: Advising/Coaching

Closing date: 07/09/2012

Role Overview

 

Our Enterprise Coaches proactively deliver 1:1 self-employment support to individuals participating in A4e programmes.

 

What You Will Be Doing

 

 

• To deliver enterprise workshops to groups.
  
• To deliver 1:1 self employment support to individuals, providing business planning, research and financial support to develop business plans.
  
• To support the development of networking opportunities for participants, becoming their single point of contact throughout prestart and start-up process, through to aftercare post-start-up.
  
• Monitor and report on quality of provision from time to time, to support sharing best practice across the venues. Identify and help reduce the risk of failure in the early stages.
  
• To actively network and represent A4e programmes project to key partners, and identify how organisations can work together to the mutual benefit for prospective entrepreneurs.
  
• To ensure collation of accurate management information and reporting.
  
• To attend team meetings, preparing presentations and reports and contribute to the overall development of enterprise and growth in the region.
  
• To liaise with local networks and organisations to encourage partnership working and referrals to and from the project, and gain a working knowledge of their activities
  
• To work closely with staff in A4e offices (e.g. the employment teams) to support clients pursuing self employment.
  
• Undertake any other duties deemed necessary by the Senior Enterprise Coach in order to fulfil the aims and objectives of A4e.
  

What You Will Need To Have

 

 

• Experience of delivering enterprise 1:1 support is essential to be considered for this role.
  
• Business startup and enterprise experience.
  
• Demonstrable experience of working on specific projects with clearly defined parameters and aims.
  
• Experience of working within local communities to develop services.
  
• High level of competency in both written and spoken English and Mathematics. Grade B at GCSE or equivalent.
  
• Knowledge of European and UK Government regional development policies and practice.
  
• Strong interpersonal skills.
  
• Clear and effective communications skills.
  
• Word processing, spreadsheet and client database skills.
  
• Internet, e-mail and general ICT skills.
  
• Excellent report/essay writing skills.
  
• Team player.
  
• Possess plenty of drive, energy and enthusiasm.
  
• Patience and determination.
  
• Ability to work well under pressure and to tight deadlines.
  
• Prepared to work out of office hours in order to deliver support to fit in with clients’ circumstances.
  

Who We Are

 

A4e is a leading public service provider, serving thousands of people across three continents - Europe, Australasia and Asia. A4e’s core mission is to improve people’s lives. We work in partnership with governments, public sector organisations, private sector companies, voluntary and community groups to deliver a range of front line public services, including employment and welfare, training, education and money and legal advice.

Additional Information

 

A4e is committed to safeguarding and promoting the welfare of its staff and customers. We expect all our staff to be aware of their responsibilities to protect staff and customers from abuse or harm. Successful applicants will be required to undertake a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check or Disclosure Scotland check and to provide proof of their right to work in the UK.

We are committed to equality and fairness across all employment opportunities and service delivery. At A4e ‘Everyone Matters' and all managers and employees are expected to ensure our workplaces and services are accessible and inclusive.

[silv.surfer]

Wow HONDA17 - havent seen any hint of any of these qualifications or qualities in any of the posts on here or anywhere - are we refering to the same beings/advisors.

 

I saw a Notice in my local Council Office about Money Management and with the idea of telling a Friend looked closer but when I saw A4e I thought 'Noway Hosay' He is better off with me.

[osdset]

Here we go again http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/workfare-for-school-leavers-work-30-1284204

 

I wonder what 'community projects' or charities will benefit from this?

I expect to see the big supermarkets initiating a school leaver shopping assistant scheme 'are you having trouble finding those digestive biscuits?' or 'is that basket too heavy for you?' young Johnny over there will help once he has finished shelf stacking and sweeping.

 

And once again the odious A4e will be paid a small fortune to 'place' johnny. This government is like a terrier with a rat when it comes to workfare they just won't drop it.

Edited August 29, 2012 by osdset

[Bakatcha]

Hi Asdset

link doesn't work for me.

[debt4get]

of course they won't drop it!!! too much money being paid to their 'mates' until the wider public realise that this is simply 'wasting' money nothing aint gonna change..

[osdset]

Fixed the link.

[Bakatcha]

Fixed the link.

Yes now works. They don't give up do they! They seem determined to establish a new slave class - people forced to work for less than the NMW. The Tories (and their liberal lapdogs) are an odious, dispicable bunch - completely selfish and incompetent.

On a slighly different note have a look at this article:

http://www.nucleus.org.uk/jsa-sanctions-declared-unlawful-by-the-high-court/

 

I think pimps are far too quick to reach for the "nuclear option" of sanction doubts (which we are constantly told can deprive the victim of all income for up to six months thus rendering them destitute). All this defending attacks by the pimps costs effort and money - yet they seem able to push the button and raise a silly sanction doubt without the slightest comeback. They should be fined or charged by the DWP for all the time and effort they waste each time a sanction doubt is turned down - and made to compensate the intended victims for the unwarranted stress caused.

[signmaker]

Hi fellow unemployed peeps,

 

I have just received a letter regarding a doubt about my entitlement to JSA because it appears that I have failed to take part in the Work Programme, it says that I was "notified" on the 27/06/12 to attend a Work Programme appointment with an Ingeus adviser on the 15/08/12 at 10am which I failed to do, (I cant remember because I am shoved in front of a computer and left to it at each appointment now anyhow), now I did contact my adviser and told her that I would not be able to make that appointment because we were having a new heating sytem fitted so would not be able to leave the house, to which she said

"I can cancel that for you, I do have to let the jobcentre know you are unable to attend and the reason but this is just a matter of course.I shall see you on your next session as normal"

my question who is in the wrong here me? or my advisor, or is it the JS plus that have decided that my reason for not attending this activity is not good enough.

 

any reply would be helpful before I go shooting my mouth off at my advisor.

 

(BTW every time I have attended the job search I have not seen my advisor, it's 8 weeks now)