Ingeus

[big gaz edinburgh]

Ingeus profit with £14,700 if they get you a job and you keep it for a year. Whats in it for you? Nothing. Zip. Zero money, all you get is palmed off with some crap about tax credits. -Whats that compared to what they pocket? Compared to the crappy salary you will get when you are in the job on "Minimum wage" these people at ingeus are **** and do not deserve a bit of co-operation. Why should they? If they try to shove you into a charity job tell them straight. NO. -this breaks the anti-slavery laws. They cannot MAKE you work for a state benefit that is legaly yours anyway! Think about it and do some research on Ingeus, look for their website, print out ALL the information on them and you have them by the balls! You have ammunition against their crap enough to shoot them down in flames!

[debt4get]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19184054

prisoners in wales being used as 'call centre workers' with company paying them.....£3 a day!!!whilst people in wales cannot get jobs for love or money, this is nothing more than 'slave labour' and has been described as such by unions

[YorkyLad]

with growth in uk economy expected to be a big fat zero...it's 'so disappointing' the chancellor will mouth....the wp's are probably the only one's who are now in a growth industry...and if the zero output continues then the jobless is going to go through the roof...though how they are going to 'manufacture' the figures to show they can get people into non existent jobs, will be even more interesting

 

It's a seriously interesting point. We'd maybe get a situation like 'tulip mania' but instead of tulips it'd be 'unemployment mania'. I think it is likely to become, as mentioned above, one of very very few growth industries. A growth industry that the government is peeing money away through is going to become an "ALL ABOARD" situation until it goes tits up.

[silv.surfer]

I dont know how many of you saw the Despatches Programme last week when a UK Doctor went undercover onto a 14 day 'Atos Training' course for their 'Assesors.

 

Atos apparently is a French IT Company - one of the Course 'Trainers' (French) admitted on camera that she could not work in UK as a Doctor because her qualifications were not accepted - but she was suitable as 'Trainer' for Assors, also that she did not like some of the points qualifying Assesment Movements were not fair on the Patients but she couldn't do anything about it.

 

She also admitted when asked by our Undercover about Targets for removing Sick Benefits that the Government hadnt set targets but Atos gave their Assesors targets and reprimands if too low.

 

When the footage was shown to Gov.Bod he pretended to be horrified at what he was seeing but I could see body language that told a very different story.

 

It is probably out of time on IPlayer but if you can find it, it will open your eyes as to what these pimps in other Departments get up to, to keep THEIR Profits growing same as the Work Programme pimps.

[K301982P]

Making people work for £3 a day now that is the biggest joke ever but then again in my opinion the Government are the biggest bunch of jokers I've ever seen! Slave labour at it's best!

[signmaker]

I don't believe that prisoners should be earning anything at all whilst in prison, they are supposed to be there to be punished for breaking the law, and should do whatever they are told to do, but are better treat than the rest of us, and a possible job when they have finished their sentence at £8.00 per hour.

 

I think this is just a ploy on behalf of prison services/government to find prisoners something to do to keep them busy during the day, whilst we have to put up with minimum wage entry jobs if you can find something suitable that is, unless of course Ingeus send you to a charity shop where you can get the experience of working for nothing.

Edited August 9, 2012 by signmaker

[osdset]

I don't believe that prisoners should be earning anything at all whilst in prison, they are supposed to be there to be punished for breaking the law, and should do whatever they are told to do, but are better treat than the rest of us, and a possible job when they have finished their sentence at £8.00 per hour.

 

I think this is just a ploy on behalf of prison services/government to find prisoners something to do to keep them busy during the day, whilst we have to put up with minimum wage entry jobs if you can find something suitable that is, unless of course Ingeus send you to a charity shop where you can get the experience of working for nothing.

 

This comment is going to be unpopular but it has to be made, punishment as embodied by a prison sentence is the deprivation of liberty nothing more nor less, if society wants prisoners to break rocks, run on treadmills, live on bread and water etc, then society must petition the government to bring back a Victorian style regime, not all prisoners are there because they are dangers to society, many are 'banged up' for misdemeanors like not paying fines which frankly in this day and age is ridiculous.

[carausius]

First of all thanks for all the important information on this thread, very helpful as i'm new to all this stuff!

 

Anyway I've been with useless Ingeus for 10 months or so & now they've refered me to another "training" company, who it' turns out deal with the Hotel & Catering Industry. However `i'm in my '50's & have never worked in any similar roles, I have around 20 plus years experience in Admin, Office, Warehouse & similar positions & 5 years experience in Construction Supervisor / Painter Decorator but not fully qualified, so why are they forcing me to do Workfare in an industry I have no experience or interest in.

 

I am considering signing off & claiming the 4 weeks HB & CT before I do as I have no intention of doing Workfare in the Catering / Hotel industry at al, I would even be prepared to help community projects but not this. Greedy Hotel chains & High Street companies.

 

The advisor just refered me after asking what experience I had without telling me the nature of work the "training" company specialised in!

 

Has anyone else been forced to do work in a industry they have no experience or interest in?

 

Also do Ingeus & the other pimps get a bonus for clients signing off & saving the government money?

Edited August 11, 2012 by carausius

[down'n'out]

..........& now they've refered me to another "training" company, who it' turns out deal with the Hotel & Catering Industry.

Check the wording on the letter they(the work provider) should of given you for the mandated activity.

First check that it is mandated.

If mandated, check what the actual activity is. With some of these, it is only the initial "Information session" that is mandated, not actually having to participate in the full training course.

The work provider needs to be very specific to make the mandated activity binding.

 

I am considering signing off & claiming the 4 weeks HB & CT before I do as I have no intention of doing Workfare in the Catering / Hotel industry at al, I would even be prepared to help community projects but not this. Greedy Hotel chains & High Street companies.

You would need to give job-centre information of place of employment before a run-on for HB would be allowed. If you have a job start, I would advise that you make sure you withdraw consent for the job-centre passing the information of job-start to the work provider.

 

Please note. That you will be mandated to work provider for 2 years. So when/if you sign back on to job seekers within that time period, you will be sent back to work provider, who may well then send you on the same course.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

First of all thanks for all the important information on this thread, very helpful as i'm new to all this stuff!

 

Anyway I've been with useless Ingeus for 10 months or so & now they've refered me to another "training" company, who it' turns out deal with the Hotel & Catering Industry. However `i'm in my '50's & have never worked in any similar roles, I have around 20 plus years experience in Admin, Office, Warehouse & similar positions & 5 years experience in Construction Supervisor / Painter Decorator but not fully qualified, so why are they forcing me to do Workfare in an industry I have no experience or interest in.

 

I am considering signing off & claiming the 4 weeks HB & CT before I do as I have no intention of doing Workfare in the Catering / Hotel industry at al, I would even be prepared to help community projects but not this. Greedy Hotel chains & High Street companies.

 

The advisor just refered me after asking what experience I had without telling me the nature of work the "training" company specialised in!

 

Has anyone else been forced to do work in a industry they have no experience or interest in?

 

Also do Ingeus & the other pimps get a bonus for clients signing off & saving the government money?

The problem with the Black Box Approach is that any decision is likely to be predicated on the subjective opinion of some uneducated unqualified pleb of an Administrative Clerk, albeit lucky to be employed within a Welfare To Work organisation, rather than as a consequence of an accurate and objective account of a Professional Careers Advisor.

 

And, if you are placed in the Vocational Routeway, a commitment that Ingeus offers, as highlighted within its Every Day Counts Service Delivery Model, is to provide "Tailored Support" which addresses the candidate expectations, and not the option which may satisfy some vindictive Administrative Clerk within Ingeus. If you can recall the initial meeting with Job Centre Plus where they assigned you to the Work Programme, the document would have specified a number of Job Objectives, and this can be used to specify to Ingeus what options they shoudl be focused on.

 

If you already possess the experience, then you can discuss your options with someone else within the organisation..... but, all things being equal, if you want to screw the profit incentive of Ingeus, then simply find a 9 month full time training programme which you would enjoy within a FE College, and even if it means that you would have to pay your own fees, sign up for that course and sign off the unemployment register. If you still disagree with the decision, raise the matter within the Citizens Advice Bureau and instigate a Judicial Review of the Process.

 

And afterwards, if you have experience of Painting and Decorating, then there is nothing to stop you setting up as a Sole Trader, offering that service to other people, and generating income for yourself.... of course, the Big Downside is that Ingeus may not take any credit for your innovative and entrepreneurial spirit. You should also be able to secure qualifications for painting and decorating.

 

You may take a hit on benefit for the duration on the course, but you should be able to negotiate a Student Loan for your course.

Edited August 11, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
grammar

[carausius]

Thanks for the replies

 

Painting & Decorating is not a long term solution due to increasing age, lack of sustainable long term work available all year. I would only consider a full time PAYE position & certainly couldn't afford getting into even more debt as a student. My rent & CT is around £140 a week so a student loan couldn't cover my living costs.

 

Jobseeker Agreement is dated 23/11/11 by JSA client advisor & just mentions Office / Admin, Rail Assistant, Warehouse Asst.

 

I haven't signed anything similar with Ingeus at all. Although one of their advisors did say a year ago I would never work again unless I tried the security industry!!!!!!

 

I guess I'll just go to this interview & not admit, sign or agree to anything, just play dumb.......

 

Cheers

[osdset]

Painting & Decorating is not a long term solution due to increasing age, lack of sustainable long term work available all year.

I hit the same problem a few years ago I'm 56 and have been a carpenter / joiner all my working life, what does not help much is the current attitude within some aspects of the building industry, I have a friend that part owns a building company they only employ youngish Eastern European labour due to the fact that they can work them for up to 12 hours per day with one short lunch break, and at low wages, his rationale is that the profit margins are so tight that employing his 'own' would not make the firm money. No wonder half my tradesmen mates are out of work.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Thanks for the replies

 

Painting & Decorating is not a long term solution due to increasing age, lack of sustainable long term work available all year. I would only consider a full time PAYE position & certainly couldn't afford getting into even more debt as a student. My rent & CT is around £140 a week so a student loan couldn't cover my living costs.

 

Jobseeker Agreement is dated 23/11/11 by JSA client advisor & just mentions Office / Admin, Rail Assistant, Warehouse Asst.

 

I haven't signed anything similar with Ingeus at all. Although one of their advisors did say a year ago I would never work again unless I tried the security industry!!!!!!

 

I guess I'll just go to this interview & not admit, sign or agree to anything, just play dumb.......

 

Cheers

It may still be productive to seek Expert and Professional Guidance, and a College Tutor would welcome the chance to see you, discuss your background and identify possible training options with you - and the Professional opinion is going to be better for you than the subjective opinion of some Ingeus Clerk less qualified than a JCP Clerk on a Power Trip.

 

Given that you are on benefit, the College may be able to offer some training options which are subsidised by the local authority - a rare event indeed.... and one example may be Teacher Training for yourself via the basic qualification known as the "Preparing To Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector" (CGLI 7303). This may be offered through an evening class at your local FE College, and whereas you simply need to be claiming benefit, your involvement within the Work Programme will not invalidate your application. A zero cost option.

 

More advanced training options would be available - for example, there are a range of Access Training Courses designed for the 18+ age range, and designed to accommodate the need of candidates who left school with no qualifications at all. Equivalent to A levels, Access Courses are also accepted by (for example) Universities. Again, they may be delivered at night class within a local FE College, and hence will not impact on your Job Seekers Agreement. The fact that they are designed for Mature Students with no qualifications should not be viewed as a deterrent - even Graduates return to education through Access Provision simply to gain an edge.

 

In terms of legal advice.... if you still remain unhappy with Ingeus, then speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau. They may be able to identify legal options for you, including something called a Judicial Review which will establish the basis of any decision made by Ingeus. Although they have been given a Black Box, they still wield, what is in effect, a decision on behalf of the DWP which impacts on public finances, and if there is no logic to that decision, they may fall foul of the Judicial Review Process.

 

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/downloads/WhatIsJR.pdf

[caledfwlch]

Thanks for the replies

 

Painting & Decorating is not a long term solution due to increasing age, lack of sustainable long term work available all year. I would only consider a full time PAYE position & certainly couldn't afford getting into even more debt as a student. My rent & CT is around £140 a week so a student loan couldn't cover my living costs.

 

Jobseeker Agreement is dated 23/11/11 by JSA client advisor & just mentions Office / Admin, Rail Assistant, Warehouse Asst.

 

I haven't signed anything similar with Ingeus at all. Although one of their advisors did say a year ago I would never work again unless I tried the security industry!!!!!!

 

I guess I'll just go to this interview & not admit, sign or agree to anything, just play dumb.......

 

Cheers

 

Make sure you remove Ingeus's right to hold your data contact people/employers etc too. And modify the letter, so when you have your meeting with the new shower, you not only refuse to sign the DPA waiver, which presumably they are obliged to do, but modify the letter to specifically prohibit them from doing using your data etc. I think this should always be done along with a refusal to sign, as then there is no ignorance excuse on their side, or a claim that you signed but they lost it.

 

It depends who else lives with you, but as a Student, you would not be liable for Council Tax iirc.

[down'n'out]

Making people work for £3 a day now that is the biggest joke ever

Not for a prisoner. At least it will be better than 23 hrs bang-up.

What you have to consider, is that if the prisoner refuses such work, will they then be refused food/shelter? Those on Job-seekers, if they refuse such work, they have their benefits sanctioned, which in turn can then make them homeless/unable to afford food.

Being in prison is becoming a [possible] better option these days.

 

My main problem, is the probability of the prisoners taking jobs that should be given to the unemployed.

[YorkyLad]

You would need to give job-centre information of place of employment before a run-on for HB would be allowed.

 

This is incorrect. You only need to give the dates that your employment will start and indicate that you expect the employment to last 5 weeks or more. It clearly states in our signing book (in the signing off section) that we are under no obligation to inform either the DWP or JCP of any future employment details. All you have to tell them is the date you are signing off from.

[YorkyLad]

Question: How when someone hasn't signed the data waiver giving Ingeus their consent to share data with or contact either your 'future employer' or their own delivery partners... what gives them the right to give your data to one of their delivery partners?

[debt4get]

in basic terms they do not have the right to share your data if you have not signed the consent form

[debt4get]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19236030

news report today, employers looking at 'make or break'....if this does come to pass and i see no reason to look optimistic, the unemployment figures are going to go through the roof....

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Question: How when someone hasn't signed the data waiver giving Ingeus their consent to share data with or contact either your 'future employer' or their own delivery partners... what gives them the right to give your data to one of their delivery partners?

Essentially, from Data Protection Legislation, DWP designate all Welfare To Work Providers as "DWP Job Centre Data Processors" and may distribute personal data to them without securing authorisation or consent of the candidate.... and, even when assigned to the Work Programme, the Data Protection Waiver which a WP Provider may try to coerce the candidate to sign is entirely voluntarily, and that if a candidates does not sign, may not expect any sanction.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19236030

news report today, employers looking at 'make or break'....if this does come to pass and i see no reason to look optimistic, the unemployment figures are going to go through the roof....

Employers are always whinging at the best of times.

[YorkyLad]

Essentially, from Data Protection Legislation, DWP designate all Welfare To Work Providers as "DWP Job Centre Data Processors" and may distribute personal data

 

Good to know. Thanks.

[carausius]

So I went to the sub contractor pimp yesterday, registered in the visitors book at reception, who informed the interviewer I had arrived. The interviewer then came after 5 mins & said they wouldn't be long & disappeared for 50 minutes. I then went down to reception & told the duty staff to leave a message for the interviewer to contract me by mobile & signed out the visitor book. What a compete wast of time & I suppose I will get getting a "sanction" & two weeks suspension of JSA & HB now for reasons unknown

[carausius]

I hit the same problem a few years ago I'm 56 and have been a carpenter / joiner all my working life, what does not help much is the current attitude within some aspects of the building industry, I have a friend that part owns a building company they only employ youngish Eastern European labour due to the fact that they can work them for up to 12 hours per day with one short lunch break, and at low wages, his rationale is that the profit margins are so tight that employing his 'own' would not make the firm money. No wonder half my tradesmen mates are out of work.

 

I have been on many jobs where East Europeans who were clearly not qualified nor seriously experienced, no one seems to give them a skills assessment nor checks their references abroad. In my experience Bosses will just invoice for X amount of tradesmen, not mentioning that some are clearly not time served & / or qualified nor being paid less than proper tradesmen. More profit in the pocket for contractors & employment agencies often do the same. Many of these unqualified workers will down tools as soon as they are not supervised & some will even pay the Foreman or Boss a weekly "fee" for keeping them employed.

[Bakatcha]

At least you have signed in and out of the visitor book so that should be sufficient proof that you attended for a period of approx. 55 mins. Good ammunition for if they raise a doubt.