Gross misconduct appeal?

[antistarv2]

I was recently dismissed from my former employer on accusations of theft. I used to work at a hotel and apparently on one of the evenings in the area that i was working a £10 cash tip was said to have vanished. Because i was in charge of the section I get accounted for the missing money which I did not even see.

 

The person who falsely accused me has now had himself terminated from what I have heard. (he was known as a troublemaker) As well as that one of the witnesses that he allegedly had corresponded with is no longer in the country as he was in an exchange program from over seas.

 

At the end of the day it was his word over mine, the evening that the theft occurred was his first shift as acting manager ( he was the assistant manager) and didn't even see anything take place nor did the other witness he was only asked whether or not I handed in the money, so he came to the conclusion or should i say assumption that I must have committed the theft as i was the only person in charge of that area at the time.His witness statement at no times says anything about my where abouts or what i was doing at the time this money disappeared. I was working at that establishment for 7 months incident free until he arrived and he was there and gone within 2 months.

 

How am i supposed to fairly defend myself against the evidence given against me (which is an unsigned non hand written statement) if i can't question the person who accused me or one of the witnesses who was only asked about whether or not he saw anything. Other than that there is no conclusive proof despite a CCTV camera directly above where the incident took place which was conveniently turned off at the time of what supposedly transpired.

 

I wasn't suspended after the allegation and was only given 3 days whilst working full time to gather evidence and witnesses before my disciplinary. My disciplinary in itself was a sham they tried to pressure me into a confession and my witness statement fell on deaf ears. I on numerous asked to see a copy of my contract ( which is still unsigned) but they always changed the subject or would say i will get it when im next free which never happened. At the disciplinary they told me that I signed a sheet that said all cash tips were to be handed into the till, However I was not able to see such a document at the time they instead said even though the document isn't here you should be aware of the agreement as it is standard practice.

 

To make things worse the General Manager has resigned as well who granted me the appeal and now i am having to explain it to HR to avoid a conflict of interests as the Food and Beverage Manager came down to the final decision to terminate me.

 

As this was my last job I'm finding it hard to seek employment seeing that if future employers were to look for a reference from the hotel can only confirm the dates I were there and can say I was terminated. Can I say anything else other than i got terminated on suspected theft? I was advised for the time being to say I quit whilst I'm still on appeal but theres always that chance they will ring my ex employees which is what i am worried about.

[antistarv2]

further to this post it seems that I have no appeal as my appeal was logged with the former GM and they have no proof of my appeal letter ever reaching the office.

 

If future employers where to ring the hotel all they can do is say i was terminated and the dates I worked

 

When going to interviews can I say that i was unfairly dismissed because the person who accused me of theft got fired a couple of weeks after he got me terminated and I wasn't given an appeal even though I did launch an appeal with the former GM? I can't go to tribunal either because I was there for less than a year.

[papasmurf1cx]

Send your appeal letter again by recorded delivery, to head office. Sounds unfair to me, there are holes all over this story for the employer. How long were you in their employment, I know you said 7 months but I am unclear if that was only in that department.

 

Also are you British? I only ask because I get a sense from what you have written that the employer was taking advantage of your lack of procedure and law (although you do have a grasp of it but they wouldn't know that and do it anyway) and by the way all the others have also fallen by the wayside tells me that employer may have some sort of hidden agenda.

[antistarv2]

I was there for 8 months all together it was a new hotel so I was part of the opening team. I am British but of mixed race half Filipino evidently the only non white person in the restaurant at the time. The restaurant its self was subjected to about 3 staff change overs within the 7 months I was there making me a more senior member of staff. At the time of my departure I was due a bonus in the upcoming 2 weeks for having stayed with the company for since it first opened.

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

a) On what facts did they base their decision?

b) If the accusations were 'false' as you say, this could well amount to ill-founded allegations of theft...

c) Did you exhaust all the avenues in terms of disciplinary procedures?

[antistarv2]

at the disciplinary hearing I told them that i would do whatever it takes to co-operate and get through this as i wanted to set an example rather than be an example to which they just said no they seem to be in denial that the evidence is concrete although it literally isn't even a signed account with no mention of times or dates.

 

The based the misconduct on the fact that because even though that no one saw me physically take any money because I didn't in the first place, the money was still on my section and I was responsible for it.

[Bigredbus]

So, they based their accusations on simple suspicions... and no evidence to back up their suspicions...

 

a) Did you have access to any copy or copies of witness statements?

b) Did you appeal?

[antistarv2]

yes i still have the witness statements it just basically says that there was money on the table and it disappeared he asked my peers whether or not i declared a tip amount to which they said no. They checked the till at the end of the night still no tip amount I was asked to go the office where the evening manager and himself were and he literally just asked me if i wanted anything to talk to him about which the answer to that was no.

 

I went back to the office 5 minutes later confused as to why they would have asked me a question such as that to which I asked was everything ok? to which he said yes but then asked me again if i had anything I wanted to tell him to which i said no again because i didn't even know what the problem was . So basically he said that the reason why he came to the conclusion i took the money for myself was that it wasn't handed to anyone else and it wasn't declared on the till.

 

I did appeal but the GM quit before I could have my appeal and apparently they have seem to have lost any evidence of an appeal letter and won't even respond to my emails about setting a new appeal date.

[papasmurf1cx]

What gets me about this case is the policy of the hotel over tips. The thread is about theft. The customer left a tip, most probably for the person who gave the customer the service, but did that customer know that a personal tip destined in his mind for the waiter / waitress was actually going to end up in the till for the benefit of the hotel? To my mind that is theft by the hotel from the customer because the customer never intended the hotel to have it. Sorry rant over!!

[antistarv2]

tips are to be handed into the till so that at the end of the month the tip amount is shared throughout the hotel to all the staff basically what i was accused of doing is counted as theft because as it was a gratuity the whole sum of money wasn't meant for me.

[papasmurf1cx]

but did the customer know about this policy? When I leave a tip I generally mean it to go to the person that served me. I can only think of one time I was happy with a policy that distributed my money more widely and that was acceptable because there was exceptional service by everyone and was the fair thing to do AND it was on open display at the reception desk.

[antistarv2]

no i don't believe that the customer is aware of the policy at all. It sounds silly I know I'm being accused of stealing from the company even though it was a gratuity in the first place, and i got terminated on a suspicion with no real evidence and they haven't given me an appeal even though I have the right to one and they received it in writing.

[papasmurf1cx]

If the customer is not aware... who then is guilty of misappropriation, the company or the person who took the cash? I realise that it is a bit of a moot point but to be sacked when it is the company at greater fault is a travesty. I doubt a Tribunal would be impressed with the company. Trouble is you have not been employed for long enough, but at least you have your answer to a new employer!!

[antistarv2]

but thats the thing without going into too much detail how would I word it to a prospective employer as soon as the word theft is mentioned any credibility of good character building is diminished. Would you employ me if i was being accused of theft?

[papasmurf1cx]

that is why you have to fight it. if you get nowhere at least you have your answer to the new employer ie the old employer used to employ people and manufacture evidence to get rid of them within a year so there was no comeback. The circumstances were..... story.... I am still fighting to get an appeal with the company but don't have too much hope as they were a bad and manipulative employer whose own policy over tips virtually amounted to theft. That you are now glad not to be employed by them because you consider yourself a good employee , hard working etc etc ... You just have to have the answer and be open. If the new employer thinks what you are saying is reasonable and your are open about it it shows you have nothing to hide. I would say it is commendable and give you a chance. It's how you approach it after all you have never been convicted in a court so it not a criminal conviction just an employment dispute.... which you dispute.

[Bigredbus]

... How much money are we talking about here?

[antistarv2]

right i guess thats one way of putting it do you think I would be better off being economical with the truth? I do believe that my ex company can say I was dismissed but surely can't say anything more than that as it would be defamation of character and slander would it not? As well as that I have half the mind to take them to court for criminal libel there evidence is so weak as the person who wrote the statement doesn't even exist within the company anymore.

[antistarv2]

sorry in the reply to your post it is the sum of £10 no criminal charges were pressed against me I was just dismissed

[papasmurf1cx]

I don't suggest lying, being economical with the truth or anything like that. I would ensure you have a recorded delivery letter sent to Head office HR detailing that you want your appeal hearing in any event. I would also allege discriminatory intent if they fail to allow you your appeal, just to get their attention. Apply for new jobs being honest over what happened and explaining you are making efforts to clear your name. Once you have the new job, concentrate on gaining a good reputation and the new employer won't give a monkey's over you past history.

[Bigredbus]

sorry in the reply to your post it is the sum of £10 no criminal charges were pressed against me I was just dismissed

 

Don't get this the wrong way, but how do you know it was £10?

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I doubt if you will want to go down the libel route, sorry. It costs a fortune and you wouldn't get legal aid.

 

I agree with papasmurf, appeal to protect your good name and try saying what he suggests at future interviews.

 

My best, HB

[antistarv2]

I know it's £10 because that is the sum stated in the witness statement I never saw the money I don't believe it even existed I wasn't in the restaurant at the time the incident occurred. The guests paid for there meal by card they were the only people left in the restaurant I went to the kitchen to start cleaning down , the problem with that is there were no witnesses present to actually account the fact that I was there at the time. I cant dispute that money may or may not have been there just cause I didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there but I am sure I haven't taken it and they cant really prove that I did because there witnesses aren't even in the company anymore.

 

I don't intend to take them to court but I would love to.

[honeybee13]

I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but is there any cctv evidence of the alleged incident please?

 

My best, HB

[antistarv2]

silly thing is that there was a cctv camera directly above the table this money was on but at the time of the incident the cameras were off they are never usually turned off.

[papasmurf1cx]

so who turned them off? Who was responsible for ensuring that it was on?