Carcraft Missold vehicle by incorrect engine spec being giiven -EGA Ratty

[EGS Ratty]

Hi,

 

I visited my local Leeds Carcraft showroom on Sat 7th May with the intention of looking for a large estate type car my first choice was an Audi A6 2.7ltr or 3.0ltr version, if none were available I would have considerd the BMW or Mercedes alternatives. As it happens there was a black "08" plated Audi A6 Avant there. It had no price tag in the window, no specification sheet and it didn't have a badge on the back to indicate it's engine size.

 

I asked the salesman (Wayne Ellis) what engine it had in it and he said he didn't know but would go find out. When he came back he told me it had a 2.0ltr diesel engine. I told him I would in that case probably pass on the car as I was looking for more power of the sort that the larger 2.7ltr and 3.0ltr engines provided. I considered the 2.0ltr to be underpowered for what I wanted to use the car for which was predominantly being loaded up with at least one Hang Glider and more usually two on the roof with all the harnesses, flying gear, camping gear and other clothing and items for at least two people to last for a few days at a time.

 

The salesman then went on to tell me that this particular version of the 2.0ltr engine fitted to the A6 was actually a high performance version that produced as much power (170Bhp) as the larger V6 engine sizes I was looking at while at the same time giving better fuel economy of around 50mpg.

 

This information made me interested enough to take a test drive as I had already looked round the car and apart from the usual stone chips, scuffs and other minor things you would expect on a car that was approaching 3 years old I had decided the car would be suitable for me with the final decision depending on what the engine size was and what faults (if any) would reveal themselves on the test drive along with negotiating a deal on the price.

 

I consider a test drive to be more for finding out if the car has any obvious mechanical faults and how it brakes, steers and feels to drive than testing it's outright performance and as such the test drive showed no obvious problems with the car. During this test drive the salesman continued his sales pitch by telling me that once I bought the car I could increase it's performance very easily buy just buying a simple "chip" off EBay that would increase this 2.0ltr engines already great performance to over 230Bhp which made it a lot more powerful than the 170 Bhp 2.7ltr diesel produced while still giving much better fuel economy.

 

This new information sold the car to me and on returning to the showroom a deal was struck with a part exchange vehicle and cash on top. Paperwork was signed and I took the car home. Later that night I checked up on the vehicle and found that the particular model I had bought didn't in fact have this high performance engine in it and only had 140Bhp and couldn't find any information about the "chip" that the salesman had told me about. To say I was a bit annoyed was an understatement, I felt I had been misinformed by the salesman and talked in to buying a car I would have walked away from had I been given the correct information at the time.

 

I went back to the showroom the very next morning (Sun 8th May) to let them know they had made a mistake with their information and sold me a car with different engine specifications to what I had been given by the salesmen the previous day. The manager and salesman basically shrugged their shoulders and made it clear they didn't think it mattered and even made light of the mistake. After talking to the salesman for a while it became clear I wasn't being taken seriously and would get nowhere with these particular staff members. As the showroom was very busy that day I decided to go home and come back another day early in the morning to try again.

 

On Tuesday the 10th I was about to get in the car to go to work when I saw that as the sun was shining on the side of the car it looked as though someone had buffed the car with a wire brush, there were swirly marks reflecting light all over the place making the car look as though it's pain had been vandalised. I couldn't understand how this hadn't been visible in the showroom or the couple of days following my purchase of the car. The only explanation I could think of was that it only really showed up in direct bright light (this actually proved to be the case). I decided to add it to the engine performance issue when I went back to the showroom.

 

My next available opportunity was the next day on Wed 11th, I went back to the showroom at 8.30am to try to talk to someone as the showroom opened it's doors. On arrival I was informed that no one was available to talk to me. This was very frustrating and I said I wasn't going to leave until I had spoken to someone in charge who would listen to my issues and deal with them. After being kept waiting for a while a manager who introduced himself as John asked me what my issues were. I took him outside to show him the paintwork on the car ( I had deliberately left it parked in the early morning sunlight to show the paintwork damage). I also explained how I was very annoyed about the cars engine not being the high performance one I had been told it had fitted. He agreed with me that the paintwork was in fact badly marked seemingly by being incorrectly buffed with some kind of mechanical buffer etc. He then informed me that he was actually the workshop manager and not a sales manager and would not be able to deal with my issues. I was annoyed at this as it seemed that I was getting nowhere with the Carcraft staff. He informed me that I would have to take the matter up with the Customer Service staff and I would find their phone number on the paperwork I had been given when I bought the car. I went away from the showroom very annoyed at seemingly wasting my time yet again.

 

I rang the Customer Service number later that day and spoke to a woman on there, explained my issues to her about the engine performance and paint damage and she immediately told me that the paint finish damage was nothing to do with them as it would be considered wear and tear. I said I doubted it as a carcraft workshop manager had already agreed with me that the paint had in fact got damage marks on it probably caused by incorrect polishing, whether that was by the carcraft staff or the previous owner he didn't know but he agreed it would need a professional polish to fix the problem. She then said she would look in to the issues and get back to me.

 

On Thurs 12th as I had not had a call back from Customer Services the previous day I decided to call them again. The same woman answered my call and said she had not heard back from the showroom yet and again said she would look in to it and call me back.

 

I received no call back later that day or the next and tried ringing them on Sat 14th, unfortunately the Customer Service staff don't seem to work weekends so I had to wait till Mon 16th. I spoke to a different person this time and I asked to speak directly to someone who could actually help me as I was becoming extremely annoyed at the way I had been handled so far. I was told I'd be transferred to a manager who could deal with me and then after being on hold for a while I found myself speaking to the very salesman who had sold me the car in the first place who not only again told me yes it was a bit unfortunate he had got his information wrong but also again tried to make light of the situation. I got cut off at this point and again had to ring Customer Services. Spoke to a different person again and they said instead of ringing the manager they would e mail him and get him to ring me back personally.

 

As I had received no such callback that day I again rang Customer Services on Tues 17th, the staff member I spoke to said they would look in to it and again ask that a manager call me personally. Again I heard absolutely nothing from anyone.

 

By this time I had got fed up of talking to Customer Services as it was a complete joke, I started to suspect that I was being deliberately ignored by the Leeds showroom manager who was supposed to be ringing me back. I decided to bypass Customer Services altogether and ring the showroom direct instead to see if I could get anywhere.

 

By now I was absolutely fuming and felt I had been ignored and messed about enough by Carcraft staff and was about ready to go give them the keys to their car back and ask for a full refund of my money and my part exchange car back as I felt I had bought a car that was mis sold to me by not being "as described" to me by the salesman. I had been given specific information by him that led directly to me buying a car I would otherwise have walked away from.

 

I phoned the Leeds showroom on Wed 18th and asked to speak to Anthony Phillips ( The same manager who had supposedly been emailed at least twice and also asked to call me back twice by Customer Services staff and failed to do so). I was told he was busy so I said I'd hold. Eventually I got to speak to him and after explaining my issues he said he was already aware of them and asked what I was wanting them to do about it.

 

I explained that as far as I could see, under the Sale of Goods Act in the UK a car had to be Fit for Purpose, Of Reasonable Quality, and "As Described" and as the Carcraft staff had already admitted several times that the car wasn't as described to me that they were likely to have broken this law.

 

I said as it was obviously impossible to fit the correct engine type to my car other options had to be considered, I offered to exchange the car for one that had the specification originally stated, I offered to accept one that had the larger engine size I originally told the salesman I was looking to buy, I offered to take back my original part exchange vehicle and cash, I also offered to return the car for a full cash refund if my part exchange vehicle wasn't available.

 

This manager told me he was very busy that day but would look in to what I had said and call me back with a response to the options I had offered as a solution to the issue. I accepted this and told him I would await his call finally satisfied that I was getting somewhere.

 

Unsurprisingly over a week went past without a word from Mr Phillips and on Fri 27th I rang Customer Services purely to find out who to make a formal complaint to and how to go about about returning the car for a full refund, whilst on hold I got cut off.

 

Finally this brings me to today, I now believe Carcraft have no intention of dealing with my problem at all, even though they have admitted the fault lies with them, I have no idea of what to do next and am sitting here writing this post mainly because I just want to get my story out there and get some advice from anyone. I've seen that there is a Carcraft member on this forum but I have absolutely no faith in the idea that they will be remotely interested in dealing with my problem and it has been over three weeks since I tried to get this issue resolved.

 

I know some people may think I am overreacting and that having a car with less power and economy than you were told is not that important but to me, when you are sold something it should be exactly as it was described by the salesman.

 

Any advice will be welcome and thanks for reading my post, my apologies for it being so long but you can blame the Carcraft staff for that as if they had dealt with it to start with it would have been half as long

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

This is your own thread-please keep posts in relation to your issues.

Hopefully a Carcraft rep will respond.

[heliosuk]

Is it actualy a problem??? The engine size and performance is more than adequate for what you need given that with a trailer you are limited to 60MPH anyway. Yes you can chip the engines and quite possibly to the performance quoted but think why the manufactuer didn't do this is the first place.......it has a knock on effect!!

 

At the end of the day, the car is used, might well have sustained accident damage in it's life but I fail to see apart from bad advice as regards an engine chip they have done anything wrong at the moment.

 

The A6 is a good car and you are quite probably better off financially with the 2.0 litre than anything bigger. The maintenance alone is substantially lower.

[EGS Ratty]

Is it actualy a problem??? The engine size and performance is more than adequate for what you need given that with a trailer you are limited to 60MPH anyway. Yes you can chip the engines and quite possibly to the performance quoted but think why the manufactuer didn't do this is the first place.......it has a knock on effect!!

 

At the end of the day, the car is used, might well have sustained accident damage in it's life but I fail to see apart from bad advice as regards an engine chip they have done anything wrong at the moment.

 

The A6 is a good car and you are quite probably better off financially with the 2.0 litre than anything bigger. The maintenance alone is substantially lower.

 

 

Frankly, whether or not the cars existing engine is adequate for the job is irrelevant, as is the statement about fuel economy, maintenance costs, whether it has accident damage or anything else you have posted.

 

What you are simply failing to see is that I was looking for a car with a larger engine because that was my personal preference. Whether a car fitted with a smaller engine will still do the job has nothing at all to do with my issue.

 

I was told by the sales staff that this particular car had an engine that had the same (if not more) performance as well as better economy than the larger engine size I was looking at therefore if I bought it I would have a car with all the performance I was originally looking for but with added bonus of better economy plus the option of chipping it for even more performance with no negative effects if I chose to do so. That is what I was told and I believed it, whether chipping an engine is a good or bad thing is irrelevant. What is relevant is that this information is what the salesman was giving out to a customer to get a sale when he knew that the customer was wanting a car with a bigger engine than the one he had for sale. Now even though I hadn't placed fuel economy above performance I would have been a fool wouldn't I if I didn't buy a car with a smaller 2.0ltr engine if that newer engine gave the same performance as the larger and less economical 2.7ltr engine so I bought the car. It was the deciding factor in the sale because all A6's have the same physical attributes to do the job I wanted all I had to do was choose the engine size I wanted.

 

If I had wanted a "quattro" 4 wheel drive version of the A6 and had been sold a 2 wheel drive version instead would your statement about it being adequate for the job still be valid? probably not because it's all about what you are told you are buying at the point of sale by the salesman that counts here not if the car you end up with can still do the job surely.

 

As you have stated the A6 is a very nice car and I am more than satisfied with it's equipment specification and am also satisfied it will physically do the job I wanted it to do. However, my issues surround the fact that the salesman misrepresented the car, specifically in regards to it's engine performance capability compared to the car I was originally looking for. The difference in performance from a 2.0ltr to a 2.7 or even 3.0 ltr is not insignificant and cannot be dismissed as simply bad advice as you have suggested is the case. If I hadn't been given that inaccurate information I would have walked away from the car and bought the one I did actually want with the engine size I preferred from somewhere else instead.

 

 

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UPDATE

 

As an update to my issue, I had a meeting with the operations manager at the Leeds showroom on Saturday (4th June). He agreed with me that the information I had been given was indeed inaccurate and led to me buying a car with much less performance than I wanted. He also agreed that my experience of the customer care staff and the sales staff had not been anywhere near what I should have expected with regards to not being called back when I should have been or been given the chance to talk to someone who could deal with my issue in the first place. We both agreed that whilst the car I have bought will physically do the job I needed it for and I am happy overall with the deal I made for the car, I was led to buy it on the basis of the inaccurate information given to me by the sales staff at the time and as such it falls to the dealer to make amends.

 

After discussing the problem at length and the options available I was offered the choice to keep the car along with a payment of £700 as compensation for the misleading information I was given. The £700 value was arrived at after looking at how much extra on top I would have had to pay to get a car with the engine size I wanted in the first place. The dealer had no cars available with the engine size I wanted and I would have had to have returned the car and gone looking for another one. this would have caused me lots of expense as I need a car for work not to mention the problems outside work that not having a car would cause so in the end I chose to accept the payment and keep the car.

 

Whilst this is not a perfect solution as I still have a car with less performance than I wanted, I do have a car that will do the job I wanted it to do and apart from the engine performance it is in all other respects a very nice car. I am happy that my issue was eventually recognised and dealt with and that hopefully no one else will be given wrong information at point of sale that is misleading or inaccurate by the sales staff concerned. At the end of the day a customer is entitled to be sold something that is as described, fit for purpose and of suitable quality. Getting just two out of three of them isn't an option in my opinion and we should all keep trying to make sure retailers stick to the rules when it comes to selling to the public.

[postggj]

seems car craft are getting a bit of bad publicity as late:-)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?308150-Contractual-issues-Carcraft-Creation-Finance-re-titled-(member-mfaal1-)

 

i do hope mfaal1 gets the same response and car craft can recoup some of there damaged reputation and give better staff traning

[MARTIN3030]

As you have mentioned post-the problems are from the front line-which is the point of sale-these are supposed to be the ambassadors of the business.

Failings there are the root and crux.

We all know that things can go wrong.

But there is clearly a question here as to whether the business model actually relies on this-which in business does not make any sense at all.

[EGS Ratty]

As you have mentioned post-the problems are from the front line-which is the point of sale-these are supposed to be the ambassadors of the business.

Failings there are the root and crux.

We all know that things can go wrong.

But there is clearly a question here as to whether the business model actually relies on this-which in business does not make any sense at all.

 

I couldn't agree more Martin. Front line sales staff are the people who carry the companies image and reputation over to the customer. Sales staff are bound by rules when it comes to selling to the consumer. Them rules should be at the front of their mind when it comes to any information they give about a potential purchase and they ignore them rules at their own risk.

 

On this occasion a rule was broken and I had to try and get them to deal with that. During the period when I was in dispute with them over this, their customer care service (which is basically a call centre) was severely lacking in it's ability to guide me to the person who could resolve my problem and even the initial manager who was supposed to deal with my issue was lacking in his ability to even call me when he said he would or even have the decency to call me back when I got cut off mid call. The only thing that saved them from a complete failure to deal with my issue was that I eventually got to speak to the operations manager who (to his credit) did deal with my issue. He called me when he said he would, he met me face to face and was open to the options I presented to him and we eventually made a suitable if not perfect compromise to resolve my issue.

 

However, that said. The image and reputation of Carcraft have in my eyes been so tarnished that I would never recommend them to anyone personally and my warning to anyone who is thinking of purchasing a car from them is to double check every single thing a salesman tells them about the car they are thinking of buying. Ask for written proof of any verbal claims made about a cars economy, performance or anything else that is important in your decision to buy. If you use any finance to pay for the car and are thinking of buying the extended warranty that they will offer you it is vitally important that you get any verbal claims of a cooling off period or details of what is and isn't covered in writing BEFORE you sign any agreement.

 

Carcraft's particular business model involves getting customers through the door and having them look at, test drive and buy a vehicle the same day to drive away in, probably with finance and an extended warranty on top. You are herded through the system as if you're on a production line. You go in without a car on one side and come out the exit door with a new one, all this is done in a bit of a rush and if you're not prepared for it you may have a hard time getting out of the door without signing agreements for a car that you later regret buying.

 

Be prepared for a hard sell approach and you wont be dissapointed, just please be very careful and get anything verbally claimed by staff in writing before you do sign on the dotted line.

[PPC $ cambuster]

As an aside I would never go for the "cheap chip" performance boost, they are little more than a resistor that fools the engine into over fuelling the car and although will boost performance you car will probable be more smokey and less economical. If you do want to get a bit more oomph go for a ECU remap by a reputable tuning company like Celtic Tuning or Superchips , they will cost more but you should be pleased with the results.

[Hammy1962]

Spend your £700 on :-

 

http://www.energytuning.co.uk/ a very good small company.

 

and a well respected local auto detailer close to you home. spend the rest on Beer.

 

Ignore the previous posters advice about tuning boxes just being resistors, 20 years ago maybe but much more advanced now.

 

Enjoy the now shiny car.

 

Hammy

[PPC $ cambuster]

Hammy, Clearly you have not fully read my post, I said do not go for the cheap chip mod (as sold on e bay and mentined by the car craft salesman) which are still a resistor in a box; which basically fools the ECU into thinking the intake air is colder than it actually is, thus allowing a slight overfuel situation which is why the performance is slightly improved,Hope the above is simple enough for you to understand,Tuning boxes from the reputable companies are indeed a different matter but I still think a remap is the best option if you go to one of the better known names So before you suggest ignoring advice, you really should try and work out what the advice is actually saying

Edited June 15, 2011 by PPC $ cambuster

[Hammy1962]

Oooo'er. That touched a raw nerve didn't it.

 

I like it simple

 

Hammy

[gbjadyy]

dont bother chipping it, yes you will gain more power but why do you need it?, that car will do more than you want it to and alot more, i really cant agree with all this chipping of cars ( im a mechanic) and the way i see things is that cars are designed with performance and economy in mind aswell as the tolerances of all componants of the car ( a case in point here is one customer was going through driveshafts like they was out of fashion due to having his bhp pushed up to silly levels) the driveshafts couldnt take the extra torque produces through the drivetrain, that was an audi A4 , keep the car as it is and be happy with it and then after keeping that £700 you got back you can by me a pint for saving your driveshafts, lol

[Yorky2008]

And dont forget if you chip it you will need to inform your insurance company - who will more than likely raised your premium for having a modified car!

So you will lose out yet again, year upon year....