Baliffs advice needed regarding council tax arrears

[Dronnik]

Hello,

 

my mum have received a letter from Newlyn bailiffs saying that they have liability order to seize and distrain our possesions.

 

My mum is a single parent and she has me(15 year old son) and at the moment she is pregnant with another child.

 

Me and my mum owe around £1200 to council, and as soon as we received the letter, we've paid £60 to them.

These may seem like a small money, but at the moment £60 for us seems like a fortune of money.

 

My mum is worried about her paintings being collected by baliffs, she has a lot of painting that belong to her dad and they cost a lot of money!

 

Me and my mum hardly have any food at home, and my mum does not have a job and she does not get any benefits

and we have no right to get any benefits because we come from Russia!

 

My mum does not speak English, so I act like an interpreter!

 

It is very stressing for me too because the thoughts about baliffs are always on my mind.

 

Could you please give advice what to do,

because that is the first time it happened to us!

 

Could you please give advice to us!

[dx100uk]

the liability order qill prob be for the full amount for the rest of the year?

 

if you come to an arrangement with the council, this will not be necessary to pay this whole amount.

 

you need to tell us more about your circumstances - why are there no benefits involved here?

 

dx

[Dronnik]

The thing is, what we owe is for the last year, so that's probably the reason why the got bailiffs to take money from us.

We have no right to recieve benefits because, we came from Russia, which is a non-eu country and in our visa it clearly states that we have no right on any benefits.

We've recieved a first letter from bailiffs last week, saying that they were on our property but no one answered the door, and that we need to pay money otherwise, our possesions will be removed, that was the day when we payed £60 towards the account! On thursday this week, they came again, but we weren't at home, and I noticed that he was trying to get into the garden because I saw a big beam near the garden door which normally lies somewhere else! As well as that we have a lot of possesions in the house that do not belong to us, they belongto our friends who borrowed them to us for our use, so my mum worried about them too!

[Conniff]

If the bailiff has never been into the house then he cannot break in. Once he has been in, then he can break in on a subsequence visit. If a window or door is open, then he can walk in, so keep them locked and the curtains drawn tight.

[Hacked_Off]

i would make your council aware that as your mother does not speak much english they are leaving a 15 year old to deal with bailfs!! The council will tell you they cannot take the account back but insist they do.

 

If you go on here http://www.writetothem.com/ put in your postcode and find out who you local mp/councillor is and make them aware of the situation. They may be able to reason with the council on youre behalf as you are clearly vunerable!

[Dronnik]

Me and my mum have no status in the country at the moment,

we are waiting for home office to deal with our case,

so we have no right to be working in the UK at the moment,

 

my mum is a single parent, and she is an artist she earns far less than a minimum wage in the UK,

and we hardly have any food in our fridge and my mum can hardly pay for her bills.

 

I am 15 yet - so I'm a minor and I have to deal with all of the problems because my mum doesn't speak English.

 

I had another few questions for you,

 

1) we have few other people in our house that pay us rent, so that we'd be able to pay for the house rent, they live in a different rooms.

SO if Baliffs breaks in, can he take their belongings?

 

2) My mum is an artist as well as her father and she has a lot paintings in her house that cost quite a lot of money, can baliffs take those?

 

3) What if we ask our friends to write a formal letter saying what things belong to them and that they just lent them to us.

 

4) what if someone but not the debtor opens the door, and my mum won't be at home?

could you please explain what shall we do to protect ourselves.

 

We visited MP and he said that he doesnt deal with these things.

 

My mum was a subject of domestic violence as well as me when she was living with her husband.

 

Also I found out that after a certain period of time baliffs pass the debt back to the council,

how long would that take?

Could you please answer these questions, because I'm really stressed,

Im always shaky and worried,

I want to protect my mum from bad things and as well Im in process of taking exams for GCSE,

so Im not always at home!

[ploddertom]

AS your mum does not have English as her 1st language then she could be classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10 , the Bailiff should be aware of this and the account should be handed back to the Council.

 

To get further help and advice you should get back in touch with the Council and ask if they have a Welfare Rights Adviser who may be able to help you. Another person to contact should be your local Councillor(s), again details of who to contact can be got from the Council, if they refuse or are reluctant to help then you need to contact the Leader of the Council and/or his opposite number.

 

Has the Bailiff been in your home yet?

 

PT

[seanamarts]

Find out who your local councillor is, you can find out who it is on your council website. speak to them and let them know your circumstances.

You can also try these people they may be able to help

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/charities/r/the_russian_refugees_aid_socie.aspx

[Dronnik]

Baliffs have not been into our house yet, and today we've recieved a letter from them, it says:

 

NOTICE PRIOR TO REMOVAL OF GOODS

MAGISTRATES LIABILITY ORDER DATED 6 APR 2011

ARREARS OF: Council Tax(Harrow) DUE to L B of Harrow

TOTAL OUTSTANDING: £1,220.89

 

As you have failed to respond to the letter hand delivered bu our baliff. The debt remains outstanding to above client. We have now assigned the Baliff and Removal Team to your file. They will reattend your premises on FRIDAY 17TH JUNE between 6am-9pm with the intention of levying and removing your goods for sale at public auction.

GOODS MAY BE REMOVED IN YOUR ABSENCE

If you wish to avoid this course please contact : _______

 

What shall I do, I won't be in at home on that day and the maximum me and my mum could pay is about £60 pound a month, and my mum is really scared because she is pregnant. What to do now, shall I call them?

[brassnecked]

Others will know more, but they cannot break in at this stage, and if they haven't already been in cannot have a walking possession on goods anyway.

[Corona1981]

Hi Dronnik,

 

My advice to you would be not to open the door to the bailiffs. The bailiffs cannot break or force their way into the house unless you or you mum have already spoken to the bailiff and signed certain paperwork.

 

The bailiff will call on probably around 3 different occasions to try and get someone to let them into the property and normally after this they will give up and pass the debt back to the council with who you can then discuss the possibility of a long-term arrangement. They will normally at this stage send you an income and outgoing expenditure questionnaire and ask you to make a repayment offer.

 

If you cannot realisticly pay the full amount straight away and don't want your stuff taken then do NOT let the bailiff in and try and make an arrangement with them as they will NOT agree to a long-term repayment plan, will charge you another £300 - £400 pounds, and will take your stuff if you can't settle your debt quickly.

 

Some bailiffs will try and scare you into letting them in by telling you you will go to prison if you don't let them in etc. Do NOT listen to them as this will not happen, they are just trying to make you let them in.

 

Also, make absolutely sure you don't leave any ground floor windows open as they ARE allowed to climb through these uninvited.

 

Good luck

[dx100uk]

Question can he break into my house while im out if no one is in, he has never been in my house before ---End Quote---

To be able to force entry to your home he needs the following:

1 - he must have gained previous peaceful entry and made a valid levy on goods.

2 - next time he calls you must have denied him entry following a default on a payment due.

3 - he must get the approval of the Council to apply for a forced entry, and they MUST agree FIRST

4 - he must apply to the Magistrates Court for an Order allowing him to force entry - very rarely given

5 - he must write to you giving you a date and time of when he is coming

6 - if you are then not in he may make a forced entry

thus 99.9% of the time - So you are a long, long way from this happening - not that it will, and as you have paid up to date minus his fees then no application to force entry will succeed.

Any hassles with the Bailiff do no disappear overnight and it does take a long time to resolve. As said previously the Council cannot wash their hands of this and if they insist they can do nothing then they leave themselves wide open. As you no longer reside within the same authority then you must complain at the highest level ie the CEO. It would do no harm to also inform the Leader of the Council and his opposite number of what is going on also. As for the Bailiff themselves you must also challenge the fees they are trying to claim. As you paid after the levy was made you may indeed be liable for some fees but definitely not what they are claiming.

PT

 

dx

[Corona1981]

Oh, and a bailiff can go into the property if someone other than you or your mum opens the door. Legally an entrance must be peaceful and if a person physically attempts to stop the bailiff entering then the bailiff should not attempt to force his or her way in, but in reality from my own first-hand experience working alongside bailiffs a lot of bailiffs will put their foot in the door to stop you closing it and will try and push their way in. If the police are called and it's the bailiffs word against yours then the police will side with the bailiff.

 

If a bailiff does manage to get in then he or she can assume any items in the property belong to the person who owes the money and will only not take it if someone else can provide proof that the item actually belongs to them.

 

There are certain restrictions on what the bailiff can take, such as tools essential for the persons employment, but unfortunately none of the restrictions cover the paintings. If you are able to provide proof that some of them belong to her father then the bailiff can't take them, but if she can't prove it then the bailiff won't take her word for it.

 

The best and only advise I can give is make sure NOBODY opens the door to ANYONE until they are sure it's not a bailiff and don't leave any ground floor windows open.

[Dronnik]

Do you mean, local counsillor as an MP? And could you please give me an example of what I should write to the local councillor?! Im really worried and stressed to be dealing with that at the age of 15! Please help, as english is not my first language!

[ploddertom]

Do you mean, local counsillor as an MP? And could you please give me an example of what I should write to the local councillor?! Im really worried and stressed to be dealing with that at the age of 15! Please help, as english is not my first language!

 

Your local Councillor is an elected representative for the area where you live and there may be more than one - this is not your MP. Details of your Councillor may be found from the Council website or in your case as I think you may struggle to find who it is you should telephone the Council and ask them for details of who it is. If you struggle with this please send me a PM and I will try to help you find who to contact. Initial contact with your Councillor is best made by telephone and in my view this can be done up until 9pm each night.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

Did you try the website I linked to you?

[Feebee_71]

Dronnik,

 

Before Friday morning it is important you and your mum remove anything from the outside of your property that the bailiff could put on a levy - this includes things such as vehicles, garden furniture and even plant pots. You should ensure vehicles are moved at least 2 streets away (obviously being aware not to park somewhere that may lead to parking tickets) garden furniture and sundry items should be moved indoors.

 

Your mum should not open the door to anyone on friday of you're not able to be there as well. Ensure that doors are locked by key or similar, windows are closed and latched and, if possible, curtains should also be closed to prevent anyone looking in to obtain an inventory of items which could be used to create a WPA/levy.

 

Feebee_71

[Dronnik]

I have a question, we have a car on our driveway, it does not belong to us but to our friends, and my mum doesnt even drive! Can they take this car by accident? And can they get into a garden if a door into a garden is locked?

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dronnik

[ploddertom]

I have a question, we have a car on our driveway, it does not belong to us but to our friends, and my mum doesnt even drive! Can they take this car by accident? And can they get into a garden if a door into a garden is locked?

 

The Bailiff will indeed seize the car as he is allowed to assume everything belongs to the debtor. It is then up to the owner to provide proof of ownership. He is allowed to climb over any external wall/fence/gate to gain access to the garden if he believes there may be goods that may satisfy the debt - however if he damages the wall/fence/gate in the process of gaining entry then he becomes responsible for any damage caused.

 

PT

[Dronnik]

What should I do when they come today, it is 16:15 already, and they didn't turn up. Up to what time can they come? and the car was left on a driveway, what shall I do?, I'm really worried, my mum doesn't even drive at all!

[ploddertom]

Bailiffs, timekeeping & dates do not go together, do NOT believe anything they tell you. Bailiffs hours are usually 6am - 9pm Monday - Saturday, they don't work Sundays.

 

PT

Edited June 18, 2011 by ploddertom

[Squirrel Nutkin]

OMG! This thread is just horrendous! This poor lad. Should a petition or something be started to get the government to stop all this with bailiffs and council tax? Like this family, people just cant afford the charges.

[brassnecked]

OMG! This thread is just horrendous! This poor lad. Should a petition or something be started to get the government to stop all this with bailiffs and council tax? Like this family, people just cant afford the charges.

 

Not a chance, they are in on it, even if MP's make disgruntled noises, as they insist Council Tax must be collected, or they would have abolished bailiffs years ago, Council tax was the knee jerk quick fix for the debacle that was the Poll Tax. There are still people not on the Electoral Roll, since then, as they tried to avoid paying it.

 

The real problem for OP is that as they are non UK nationals, with limited rights, they are NOT ENTITLED to benefits. The Daily Heil readers would probably be horrified if they were. However as has been mentioned in other threads on here, perhaps the remedy lies within Human Rights, as how this family are in catch 22 with no realistic way of actually discharging their council tax debt and the baying bailiffs extortionate quasi legal (as in dodgy and spurious) fees, and that the bailiff will clear the house without compunction, there may well be breaches of Article 8, viz that by depriving them of possessions for a debt that they have no way of clearing, with no recourse to relief, via the benefit system, their rights under Article 8 have not been considered by the council or bailiffs when they enforced the debt as they have been therefore treated less favourably than a UK National who could have applied for Council Tax Benefit. Just a thought

Edited June 18, 2011 by brassnecked
Consideration of possibilities, or a rant You decide