phoeni/ Els and Cole Sols claimform - HSBC credit card **WON _ DISC'D**

[rory32]

Kris, if you are happy with the letter just send it. They know their legal obligations - they are just hoping that you don't.

[kp278]

hi, thanks. should i be signing this letter?

[rory32]

No. Don't sign any letters to DCA's. There is no legal requirement to.

[kp278]

Hi,

OK, following on from the letter a couple of posts above, I received a response from the DCA.

The covering letter had this paragraph:

 

"We are not the original creditor. We did not provide you with the original credit facility. We purchased your outstanding debt balance and the right to collect that balance. We did not purchase your actual agreement, consequently we have no obligation to provide you with a copy of that agreement.

 

However as a matter of good practice we have enclosed for your records a copy of the application from Halifax Bank of Scotland."

 

Can anyone advise if that first paragraph is correct or are they talking baldocks?

 

I also finally received a copy of the CCA. At the top it says CREDIT CARD APPLICATION,just beneath that it says CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 and in the box I sign it says This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms. so I guess this is the juicy banana.

 

My other query is that as I have received the CCA a couple of months after requesting it, do the DCA have to go to court first before they can start asking for the debt to be paid?

 

I still dont remember taking out the credit card but its got all my address/employment/personal details and my signature on it so I intend to pay it off, but seeing as I jumped through hoops to get the CCA, they can do a bit of jumping to get the debt.

[Curlyben]

Can you scan and let us pick it apart, I mean assess it validity

More rights NO duties cobblers I see.

I would of thought that the DCA's would change that one by now as we have destroyed it over and over again.

[kp278]

hi, sorry i dont have a scanner. i might be able to do something at work but no idea how it will turn out. apparently i can scan from the printer/copier/fax to my email............ :-?

[Curlyben]

See #40

 

Oh to answer your questions.

1/ Complete Crud

2/ Hmmm difficult, but post it and we'll see.

[kp278]

Can you scan and let us pick it apart, I mean assess it validity

More rights NO duties cobblers I see.

I would of thought that the DCA's would change that one by now as we have destroyed it over and over again.

anything in particular you want to know...?

[kp278]

uploaded covering letter and cca

thame001

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

I would say that they're screwed (to use a technical phrase) as they've clearly stated in their letter that they do not have the CCA, only the application form. I believe that they are fully responsible for supplying this information if they have indeed purchased the debt.

 

Wait for someone to confirm though

[kp278]

dont forget to scroll down in that link i posted, there are 2 pages.

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

Yeah, I read both, but I didn't want to comment on the "application form" as I don't know enough about them yet. I'd rather not give you any information than duff information

[Curlyben]

KP, I see no ships, ooops meant prescribed terms.

So totally UNENFORCEABLE.

Thames have "bought" a turkey

 

 

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

 

 

Also check out Peter Bard's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability.html

[kp278]

hi cb, thats excellent info thanks! am i right in thinking that IF they do not have a correct CCA, they have no right to process my data with the credit reference agencies. it is the dca that applied the defaults on my credit file, not the original creditor (halifax).

[Curlyben]

Yep that's right

Now explaining that to the CRA's is a different matter.

[patrickq1]

wish i had a crap aplication form lol does this apply curly

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

52 When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

53 If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

54 Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as

zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

[Curlyben]

Patrick, as we both know both OC's, DCA's and CRA's regularly "adjust" things to suit themselves, allegedly.

[patrickq1]

hi curly this is from peter the bard i have never seen it till yesterday ,some of it is relevant considering the terms and conditions and the exchange that takes place on or between the creditor and whomsoever it is passed to,so i think we will have to ask peter where did he find this info

[make them aktiv runners]

wish i had a crap aplication form lol does this apply curly

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

52 When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

53 If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

54 Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as

zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

 

At a guess, Peter got it from he ICO, page 19 on here:-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Looks like they have only two choices

1) Update the existing record (53).

2) OC end existing record and DCA do no further reporting (54).

 

We should have grounds to complain that the CRA holds 2 entries for the same debt as this is not an option offerred by ICO.

[Sentinel of Liberty]

Hi, sorry to crash on this topic, but i am a complete novice on the net.

I have sent a recorded delivery letter to Apex (with the £1 cheque) making a CCA request but they have not replied as yet (another 3 days will be the 12+2) but what do i have to do now?

 

Is there another template letter to send? And if so can you advise where i can find it?

 

Many thanks, and again sorry for interrupting.

Sentinel

[noomill060]

sentinel- First of all welcome to CAG!

 

Youve posted on a long extinct thread. You would be advised to start a new thread so you can be given advice specific to you own problem. Go to the Debt section and at the bottom you will see a NEW THREAD button, Click it and away you go. There is loads to read and learn from other threads, too.

[noomill060]

And yes there are template letters which will help you. Its very rare to actually get a CCA within the 12+2 day period, so dont panic. Its all the better that they do default on this.

[rory32]

If they are not pressing you for payment you don't need to send them anything at all.

[kp278]

hi all, i received a claim form today, first time i've received one. i openly admit to ignoring previous letters from a dca regarding this

debt.

 

here is the claim:

https://picasaweb.google.com/107065425593712894867/Courtpapers?authkey=Gv1sRgCJHm593655O65QE&feat=directlink

 

 

is there a procedure i should follow as opposed to agreeing outright to pay the claim?

 

the particulars of claim are incorrect, they state i agreed to pay the claimant 50 per week but i would never agree to this amount, 50 per month maybe but never 50 per week. i'm about 95% sure of this.

 

the claim either relates to a credit card or overdrawn account with hsbc, i cannot recall which.

 

i'll go and read now through some other threads covering the same subject.

 

thanks, kristian

Edited June 3, 2011 by kp278
added poc to post

[Guest]

interesting! they are only claiming alleged arrears unpaid re a supposed arrangement to pay off the total!?

 

bump also

Edited June 3, 2011 by Ford