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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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phoeni/ Els and Cole Sols claimform - HSBC credit card **WON _ DISC'D**


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Kris, if you are happy with the letter just send it. They know their legal obligations - they are just hoping that you don't.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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No. Don't sign any letters to DCA's. There is no legal requirement to.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

OK, following on from the letter a couple of posts above, I received a response from the DCA.

The covering letter had this paragraph:

 

"We are not the original creditor. We did not provide you with the original credit facility. We purchased your outstanding debt balance and the right to collect that balance. We did not purchase your actual agreement, consequently we have no obligation to provide you with a copy of that agreement.

 

However as a matter of good practice we have enclosed for your records a copy of the application from Halifax Bank of Scotland."

 

Can anyone advise if that first paragraph is correct or are they talking baldocks?

 

I also finally received a copy of the CCA. At the top it says CREDIT CARD APPLICATION,just beneath that it says CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 and in the box I sign it says This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms. so I guess this is the juicy banana.

 

My other query is that as I have received the CCA a couple of months after requesting it, do the DCA have to go to court first before they can start asking for the debt to be paid?

 

I still dont remember taking out the credit card but its got all my address/employment/personal details and my signature on it so I intend to pay it off, but seeing as I jumped through hoops to get the CCA, they can do a bit of jumping to get the debt.

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Can you scan and let us pick it apart, I mean assess it validity ;)

More rights NO duties cobblers I see.

I would of thought that the DCA's would change that one by now as we have destroyed it over and over again.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Can you scan and let us pick it apart, I mean assess it validity ;)

More rights NO duties cobblers I see.

I would of thought that the DCA's would change that one by now as we have destroyed it over and over again.

anything in particular you want to know...?

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I would say that they're screwed (to use a technical phrase) as they've clearly stated in their letter that they do not have the CCA, only the application form. I believe that they are fully responsible for supplying this information if they have indeed purchased the debt.

 

Wait for someone to confirm though ;)

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KP, I see no ships, ooops meant prescribed terms.

So totally UNENFORCEABLE.

Thames have "bought" a turkey ;)

 

 

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

 

 

Also check out Peter Bard's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability.html

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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wish i had a crap aplication form lol does this apply curly

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

52 When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

53 If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

54 Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as

zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

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wish i had a crap aplication form lol does this apply curly

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

52 When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

53 If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

54 Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as

zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

 

At a guess, Peter got it from he ICO, page 19 on here:-

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Looks like they have only two choices

1) Update the existing record (53).

2) OC end existing record and DCA do no further reporting (54).

 

We should have grounds to complain that the CRA holds 2 entries for the same debt as this is not an option offerred by ICO.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi, sorry to crash on this topic, but i am a complete novice on the net.

I have sent a recorded delivery letter to Apex (with the £1 cheque) making a CCA request but they have not replied as yet (another 3 days will be the 12+2) but what do i have to do now?

 

Is there another template letter to send? And if so can you advise where i can find it?

 

Many thanks, and again sorry for interrupting.

Sentinel

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sentinel- First of all welcome to CAG! :)

 

Youve posted on a long extinct thread. You would be advised to start a new thread so you can be given advice specific to you own problem. Go to the Debt section and at the bottom you will see a NEW THREAD button, Click it and away you go. There is loads to read and learn from other threads, too.

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If they are not pressing you for payment you don't need to send them anything at all.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 2 years later...

hi all, i received a claim form today, first time i've received one. i openly admit to ignoring previous letters from a dca regarding this

debt.

 

here is the claim:

https://picasaweb.google.com/107065425593712894867/Courtpapers?authkey=Gv1sRgCJHm593655O65QE&feat=directlink

 

poc.jpg

 

is there a procedure i should follow as opposed to agreeing outright to pay the claim?

 

the particulars of claim are incorrect, they state i agreed to pay the claimant 50 per week but i would never agree to this amount, 50 per month maybe but never 50 per week. i'm about 95% sure of this.

 

the claim either relates to a credit card or overdrawn account with hsbc, i cannot recall which.

 

i'll go and read now through some other threads covering the same subject.

 

thanks, kristian

Edited by kp278
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interesting! they are only claiming alleged arrears unpaid re a supposed arrangement to pay off the total!?

 

bump also

Edited by Ford
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