No Refund without return of goods

[MASAMP8]

If anybody has any advice it would be greatly appreciated.

I brought a tent from Campingworld.co.uk and when I received it found 5 problems with it which included a broken zip ladder in the fabric and Velcro straps sewn in the wrong place so window covers would never fit and the ground sheet fitted incorrectly so that when the poles where in it raised itself off the floor at the entrance.

Generally the tend was of very poor manufacture and i was not happy so i took pictures of the faults and sent camping world an email after the 3rd day of receiving the tent pointing out the faults and requesting a refund for the tent and attached pictures.

The next day I got the standard email saying sorry to hear about your problem blah de blah de blah and they had passed it onto returns to deal with.

I had to again email then the next day to ask what was happening on which I got a reply the next day to say

 

hi Mark:

thank you for your emails and the photo attached any my apologies for my late reply,

after viewing the photos we saw there are some faults with this tent so we did forward your emails the the photos attached to Outwell and we are still waiting for a reply from Outwell regarding your tent issue, they normally reply in 48 hours so we are expecting reply tomorrow, and we will update you once we receive an email from Outwell.

 

thank you for shopping with Camping World

 

kind regards

 

Ahmed Shalaby

CampingWorld.co.uk Returns Processing

 

So I sent a reply

 

Hi Ahmed

 

Why do you need to contact Outwell ... We purchased the good from you Camping World and it is Camping World's responsibility to refund the cost not Outwell.

I am again asking you to refund the cost of the tent and hope this matter can be resolved asap.

 

My wife then phoned them to ask why there was a problem to which Ahmed told her he was refunding the amount for the tent and to expect it to reach our account in 2 – 3 days. All this and with our trip off camping coming very close to the day I bit the bullet and went to a reputable camping dealer and brought a bigger and far superior quality tent for only another £50

 

I then suddenly got a reply as follows

 

hi Mark:

i spoke to Mrs Sampey last week regarding a refund for easy camp Boston 600 tent, sorry the refund transaction is not done yet as we need to arrange a collection for the faulty tent.

 

so if you can pack the tent back in the original box and let us know what day will be most convenient for you and the full address we will collect from and we will take it from there.

 

once we receive it back we will refund you £249 on the same day.

 

To which I sent a reply

 

Dear Ahmed

 

We so far have been very patient with your company but now think it is time to attempt one more time to request a full refund for the faulty tent you sold us.

Of course you can collect the item as soon as a full refund has been received by us and not before.

 

I was now getting very frustrated because I had a gut feeling they wanted the tent returned so they could then give me the old …we had our expert look at this and in his opinion it is not a fault but damage garble. Bearing in mind the tent was out the box for approx. 2 hrs to erect and take down and pack away again.

 

I then contacted Consumer Direct and with guidance I then sent the following email

 

Dear Ahmed (returns department)

 

The tent is currently packed and waiting collection. However until we receive a full refund of £249.00 we are not willing to release the faulty item.

After my wife telephoned on Thursday 19/05/11 explaining her request of a refund she was promised by your representative that a full refund for the tent would reach my account in 2 working days.

We have completed our obligation under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 by contacting you within 14 days to inform you of the faulty goods and have sent you photographic evidence of the faults.

We have also logged an initial complaint with Consumer Direct who advise us to ask you once again to refund the full amount for the faulty tent where on once full payment of £249.00 is received we will contact you regarding collection.

Should you decide to ignore this email and we do not receive a satisfactory reply in the next day or so I will be drafting a letter to yourselves, Outlining we have made every effort to resolve this matter and I will be sending by recorded delivery my formal request for a total refund of £249.00 and giving you 7 days to comply.

Should you ignore or refuse to refund we will then make a claim at the small claims court, which will incur you costs plus interest.

 

His reply

 

hi Mr Sampey:

thank you for your email,

i tried to call this number ***********but no one answer and i couldn't leave a message.

 

however, after i spoke to your wife i realised that you still have the tent which caused this delay to the refund transaction, i can not refund you without having the tent back because we have to send the tent to our tent manager for inspection first then he will confirm the damage by sending us a report which we will use to refund you so we can not refund you without his report and we cant have his report without sending the tent back to him, these are our returns procedures that we have to follow.

 

we are happy to refund you once our tent manager confirm the damage, if you want to keep the tent you are welcome to but if you want to return it back for a refund we have to collect the tent first before we do the refund.

 

these are our terms and conditions that we have to make you aware of.

 

thank you for shopping with Camping World

 

kind regards

 

Ahmed Shalaby

CampingWorld.co.uk Returns Processing

 

My reply

 

Hi Ahmed

 

I will be sending you a final request for the refund letter by recorded delivery tomorrow.

This will give you 7 days to comply and refund the money for the faulty tent.

If you fail to do so i will then have no option than to pass it over to the small claims court for failing to comply with the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.

As a business you must know any terms and conditions you care to put in and contractual form does not affect my statuary rights.

 

I then decided I would send the following which is taken from the DTI web site.

 

Dear Ahmed

 

Regarding your terms and conditions I would like to point out at no point do your terms and conditions override my statuary rights under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 and Sale of Goods Act 1979.

For your information in case you are not aware as stated in article Refunds (Regulation 14) paragraph 3.46 states as follows.

 

When do I have to refund a consumer’s money if they cancel an order?

 

3.46) As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case

Within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money

even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to

you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received

by you before you make a refund. See also paragraph 3.64.

 

Can I include a term in the contract that states that the consumer must return goods within a certain number of days in order to obtain a refund?

 

3.64) No. Under the DSRs such terms have no legal effect. The DSRs

contain provisions aimed at ensuring that businesses do not use

contractual terms that deny consumers their rights under the DSRs or

impose obligations on consumers that are inconsistent with them.

For example, a term making cancellation conditional on the return of

goods would be inconsistent with consumers’ rights to receive a

refund – see paragraph 3.46. However, you may request that goods

are returned within a certain period or as soon as practicable as long

as it does not link the receipt of the goods to the giving of a refund.

 

Of course this part of a customers statuary rights only cover the right to cancel under the regulation Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.

We also have the right to a full refund under Sale of Goods Act 1979.

 

I will therefore take your refusal to refund my account with the full amount as non compliance with the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (DSRs) and Sale of Goods Act 1979.

I have repeatedly asked that you refund my account to which you have not complied.

 

I am now sending your company by recorded delivery a written request for a full refund within 7 working days where upon your refusal will give me no choice than to submit a claim to the small claims court where costs will be added.

 

 

Faithfully yours,

M Sampey

 

I then had a reply from another member of staff as follows.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Thank you for your email. Your correspondence had been forwarded to me so that we can find the best possible and quickest resolution to this situation.

 

Firstly please let me apologise, without prejudice, that you have not received a tent in perfect condition. We sell many thousands of tents and other items each year and Easy Camp is generally regarded as very good for quality; it is rare to encounter such faults as you have and normally we would have been able to sort this immediately to your satisfaction. As a conscientious retailer we have very efficient, transparent methods in place for dealing with faulty or damaged goods, and a dedicated returns department to deal with unwanted returns or items return under the Distance Selling Regulations. We also have automated systems for issuing credits and refunds.

 

I must say that I am mystified as to your stance regarding this matter, as this tent should have been collected from you and a full refund applied to your account already. This is established procedure for us, and the only your direct action in delaying the return is holding up your refund.

 

In point of fact, we have now extended our returns period to cover a full 12 months from purchase and we are now the industry leading retailer in terms on accessibility and flexible returns. We process returned items for a variety of reasons and have many satisfied customers.

 

As your tent has been put up we need to get it back to undergo in-house inspection to confirm the faults. It is clear from the pictures that there are some issues which will be easy to confirm so that we can authorise further action - in your case a refund as requested, although we would normally consider a replacement. Our aim is to work with customers to reach a quick and easy resolution in these situations as we do not want you to feel inconvenienced by the experience. Generally we have a very good reputation for dealing with situations like these.

 

As part of our returns policy we are offering to collect the tent at no cost to yourselves, and as this is now being refused on your end, your order has been flagged as potentially fraudulent and now no longer classified as a standard return. As there is now deemed to be a significant risk associated to this order and the likelihood of police intervention we have now put a hold on any payments being made to your account until verification can be made.

 

We are, of course, still willing to collect the tent at any time convenient for you and for the return of the tent to act as a verification of honest intentions. We will then be able to begin the returns procedure and enable a refund - the soonest we can collect would be today, with the earliest final resolution of this situation (a refund) possible by Tuesday. On confirmation of fault I would reiterate again that we are willing to refund your order in full.

 

Regarding your comments about the DSRs you must have notified us in writing of your intention to cancel your order under these regulations within 7 days. It is only now, some 3 weeks on that you bring up the DSRs. In any case, under the DSRs we have 30 days to apply a refund to a cancelled order from the point of cancellation and we are still well within this statute. Please note that should you have followed our current returns policy you would have already received a full refund some time ago as many other customers have done in this time. Lastly, under section 3.45 of the DSRs it is states "that consumers are under a statutory duty throughout the period of cancellation to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them". Given your fault claim, our inspection of the goods will determine if the faults are the cause of inherent manufacturing fault or customer damage, the purpose to correctly notify the manufacturer.

 

I am afraid that if you still refuse to allow the tent to be collected for return then we will have no choice but to assume you are attempting to defraud the company by soliciting a refund whilst still retaining possession of goods. Please be aware that our next step will be to report this matter to the police along with all associated details of the potential fraud attempt

 

Please feel free to contact me on the number below if you have any further questions or issues. As previously mentioned, we are still able to collect this tent today if we act quickly.

 

All the best,

 

Michael Cloake

Business Development Manager - Camping World Group

 

Sorry its so long ….. but my wife thinks I am being pig headed in not returning the tent … but is my honest opinion that if they get the tent they will then try and wriggle out on the lines of the damage is our fault. I just have this feeling that is the route they will go down and I will be tent less and money less lol.

 

Oh and today I sent to them by recorded delivery a request in writing for a refund within 7 days.

 

Any body got and advise sorry its like war and peace lol

[MASAMP8]

Oh and just to add i like the part about me being the fraud for requesting my money back lol .... Is it not a fraudulent act to deny someone their statuary rights ..... and how can i be accused of being a fraud just for asking for my money back for faulty goods.... Is that not deformation of character

[perplexity]

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 apply, according to which it is a strict liability criminal offence, for a misleading commercial practice to cause or be likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

 

Section 5(4)(k) especially defines "the consumer’s rights or the risks he may face", as a material issue.

 

This means that there is not so much as a need to prove a dishonest intention, as there is with fraud. The fact that a practice misleads is sufficient to convict.

 

There is not so much as a duty to return rejected goods, so there is hardly a doubt that they did mislead.

[MASAMP8]

Anybody got any advice ??

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Return the tent as they request, get a receipt that it is taken by their chosen couriers and on receipt of tent they should refund you.

 

You cannot hold the tent to ransom and they are within their rights to request return and then refund.

 

Just get your receipt and any problems take them to small claims court.

[perplexity]

You cannot hold the tent to ransom and they are within their rights to request return and then refund.

 

 

Yes you can hold them to ransom.

 

A supplier may request a return of the goods but may not insist that the goods are returned before the refund is made.

 

This is specifically covered by the OFT Guidance for Businesses on Distance Selling:

 

When do I have to refund a consumer’s money if they cancel

an order?

 

3.46 As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received by you before you make a refund. See also paragraph 3.64.

 

Can I withhold a refund if a consumer fails to take

reasonable care of the goods?

3.47 No. Other than for the exceptions at paragraph 3.38 the DSRs give consumers an unconditional right to cancel a contract and legally oblige you to refund all sums due in relation to the contract as soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and within a maximum of 30 days. The DSRs do, however, give suppliers a right of action against consumers for breach of the statutory duty to take reasonable care.

.... P.S.

 

To be completely clear about it, this is laid out in the Regulations, exactly, as a statutory duty, which means that were you to sue the seller for the refund, a judge would not so much as waste the time on the seller's argument. The seller who fails to refund is informed that there is no defence to failing to reimburse and that is the end of it. Against a buyer with a proof that a distance contract was cancelled, the only defence to a claim for a full refund is to prove that the buyer was reimbursed. Any other issue would have to be dealt with as a counter claim, proved by the seller.

Edited June 10, 2011 by perplexity
PS.

[MASAMP8]

Ok and thanks for the advice.

I have contacted them by email this morning asking them to arrange a day this coming week to collect the tent and once received to refund me the full ammount of the tent.

Should i prepare something for the courier to sign just in case i do not receive a copy document.

 

We will see then if they are true to their words or try and squirm out of a refund .... as i suspect they will lol

[rebel11]

Hi Mas

 

How did you pay for it? When did you pay for it?

 

If you paid for it with Credit Card or Visa Debt, you can ask your card provider to do a Chargeback:-

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-debit-cards

 

Have a read of SOGA number 10 in my signature.

[MASAMP8]

I paid by visa debit card .....

I was not holding the tent to ransom.... I was just following as per Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 and Sale of Goods Act 1979 which states in paragraph 3.46 You must refund the consumer’s money even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to you by the consumer..

At no time have I refused that they can collect the tent once the refund has been given.

Are the laws here to be adhered to by all or just those that choose to ??

[watchinginvestigation2011]

No, just that when item is sent out that you claim is faulty, the company has a right to inspect it and when confirms as you state refund.

 

I mean under distance selling even if the item was not faulty but you changed your mind, you still have right to refund, but of course still have to send back to get your refund.

 

You should hopefully have no problems xx

[perplexity]

I mean under distance selling even if the item was not faulty but you changed your mind, you still have right to refund, but of course still have to send back to get your refund.

 

 

No you do not have to send it back to get your refund.

 

Which part of this is so hard to get?

 

(4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

[DSRs, section 17(4)]

 

P.S.

 

The same should apply to a credit card charge-back, or whatever else. So long as you have the proof that you cancelled a distance contract, the reimbursement, in effect, belongs to you. Nobody is in a position to gainsay that, not you or I, nor eBay, nor a seller, nor a judge.

[locutus]

Returning as faulty you don't have to pay the postage (it's their responsibility) and they are entitled to inspect before refunding.

 

Returning under the distance selling regulations, you have to pay postage.

 

You could contact your credit card company and do a chargeback.

[perplexity]

Returning under the distance selling regulations, you have to pay postage.

 

 

No, the supplier may not make a charge where—

 

(a) the consumer cancels in circumstances where he has the right to reject the goods under a term of the contract, including a term implied by virtue of any enactment, or

(b) the term requiring the consumer to return any goods supplied if he cancels the contract is an “unfair term” within the meaning of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

[DSRs, section 14(6)]

 

This would apply to the present circumstance, where goods delivered fail to conform to contract.

 

However, with the contract cancelled, an action to claim against a breach of contract would fail for want of a contract to enforce, except to the extent that the DSRs refer to the contract.

[Guest CAMPINGWORLD]

Hi All,

 

A response from CampingWorld.co.uk:

 

Whilst it is always a disappointing and regretable situation when a customer receives a faulty item, at Camping World we try and resolve any and all issues as quickly as we are able. We only work with reputable brands and suppliers so that we can quality control stock as tightly as possible, but with large sale volumes the odd faulty item will unfortunately appear and we have a dedicated team trying to make sure that this does not impact overly on our customers' shopping experience. In fact, our aim in these situations is to provide a service so satisfactory that the customer will look favourably on how we have dealt with the situation and continue to shop with us in the future.

 

In all fault cases such as the one above we absolutely must inspect a tent before committing to action such as a refund. This is done by in-house experts, followed by independent arbitrators if so required. We feed back all multiple or recurring faults directly to the manufacturers for them to take action. Unfortunately we live in a world where some people will try to pass off damage as a manufacturing fault and these situations, whilst rare, must be ruled out. However, rest assured that all genuine faults are treated as such and we aim to give industry leading customer service and communication throughout the process.

 

Please also note that for general returns we have now extended our returns period to a full 12 months for the benefit of all our customers. At Camping World we are proud to more than fully comply with all aspects of the Distance Selling Regulations as well as the Sales of Goods Act and all other related legislation governing online sales.

 

It may be pertinent to note that in this case - in line with our advertised terms and conditions, as promised, and before this post online was brought to out attention - the customer was refunded on the day his tent arrived back with us. The correspondence posted here is in addition to a long conversation I had with the customer's wife and, I believe, she both understood our position and respected our values. I also confirmed our intention by email to refund in full on receipt of the tent. Our tent inspection team confirmed the faults and he was refunded in full immediately.

 

We believe in a customer's right to receive correct, quality and above all non-faulty goods every time and in nealry all cases this can be achieved simply by communicating openly and honestly with us. We will not run from or shirk our responsibilities to our customers, as befits Europe's largest online camping and outdoor retailer.

 

For any further enquiries, please call our customer service line open 7 days a week on 01252 316 649.

 

Michael Cloake

Business Development Manager - Camping World Group

Edited June 26, 2011 by MARTIN3030

[perplexity]

The advice from the OFT and the corresponding parts of the legislation are perfectly clear, to the effect that there is no right to refuse a refund, when a distance contract is cancelled, on the grounds that goods were not returned.

 

It is therefore a strict liability criminal offence, to mislead the average consumer about his rights or the risks he may face, by acting as if this would not be so.

 

It is also a deliberate deception, to pretend that there is anything so special about an "extended" returns period of a "full 12 months for the benefit of all our customers".

 

A consumer anywhere within the European Union enjoys a minimum of two years, within which "to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement", because of the EU Directive 1999/44/EC hence Part 5A of the Sale of Goods Act.

 

Therefore, part 10. of Schedule 1 to The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 especially defines this as a strict liability criminal offence:

 

Presenting rights given to consumers in law as a distinctive feature of the trader’s offer.

 

Please let us know when the offender is convicted. It is one thing to fail the test of due diligence, quite another to carry on regardless when the actual terms of legislation are pointed out, in black and white.

[MARTIN3030]

Hello Michael welcome to the site.

Thank you for your response here.

Our members are often reluctant to engage in repeated efforts to resolve complaints via goods and service providers websites and customer service processes,and many usually arrive here after those routes have proved to be fruitless.

 

Your status on the CAG has now been enabled to display as an Official Company Rep.

 

We look forward to our member updating their thread here,in consideration of their problems being resolved by Campingworld,and would invite your presence in the same way should there be need in the future.

[MASAMP8]

My simple reply would be avoid at all costs ........ Sub standard goods and very poor customer service......

While when you look online things look attractive on clossy websites in reality you are taking a gamble on both what you receive and who you deal with ......

We went down the visiting a camping specialists where we purchased a 6 man tent of far better quality for exactly the same price and had the pleasure of dealing professionals who prided themself on the quality of the goods they sold and on the service they give.

In my mind the statement i posted above shows the true character of the people within Camping world and will let all who visit this site make their own mind up.

I am afraid that if you still refuse to allow the tent to be collected for return then we will have no choice but to assume you are attempting to defraud the company by soliciting a refund whilst still retaining possession of goods. Please be aware that our next step will be to report this matter to the police along with all associated details of the potential fraud attempt

The long and short of it is if a customer receives good service be it dealing with complaints or simple advice it gives them confidence that its professionals they are dealing with.

We have since spent another £400 on other camping items & do you think it is Camping world that got that business ... No Way .....

So i see it as a double loss for Camping World .... Loss of future business ...... and BAD PUBLICITY......

And dont just take my word for it .... do what i failed to do and do your homework .... and brouse the many forums and check what people post

[perplexity]

It is not only a legal right, clearly defined by the Distance Selling Regulations, to solicit a refund when a contract is cancelled, and with no duty to return the goods to the supplier's premises, never mind the attempt to hold the buyer to ransom, Section 6(4)(g) of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations especially defines the strict liability criminal offence of failing to inform that the right exists.

 

It could also be pointed out that this from the http://www.campingworld.com/info/satisfaction/ terms and conditions defrauds by misleading:

 

4. Shipping charges are not refundable.

 

Section 48B(2) of the Sale of Goods Act is indisputably clear about it:

 

If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—

 

(a) repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;

(b) bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

"Strict liability" infers that there would be no defence to the charge of misleading, once the actual terms of the law are pointed out but they carry on regardless.

 

Are you going to prosecute the clown, or just sit there and moan about it?

 

 

P.S.

 

I realise that CampingWorld.co.uk is not the same site as http://www.campingworld.com

 

If they would rather not be confused with each other, some attention should also be paid to that.

Edited July 3, 2011 by perplexity

[Guest CAMPINGWORLD]

Thank you for your reply.

 

I am sorry that you feel this way about our service, but once again can only point the issue back to the way you chose to go about addressing your complaint.

 

All issues with both quality and service are dealt with quickly and directly by an in house team and we absolutely believe that we offer the best customer service in the industry, second to none. A case in point recently saw us collect and resend no less than 5 separate multi-box tents to a customer in Germany at significant cost to ourselves. I mention this to illustrate only that, whilst we cannot legislate for fault occuring along the manufacturing line, we will always stand by our responsibilities as a retailer to make good.

 

In terms of quality we only stock established outdoor brands that are known to us. Most have a relationship with us going back 20 years+ and have established quality control processes in place. As with all retail, there are certain cost implications over manufacturing quality - and in the quoted case were firmly at the budget end of camping equipment - but we expect all goods to be over and above satisfactory quality. As previously stated, we stand by our customers where goods fall below standard and are quick to issue either a replacement or refund should it be necessary.

 

For customers not wishing to act quickly we offer a 12 MONTH open returns policy as standard - which is industry leading by a significant margin - and once again I must state that is only the fact that this customer wanted to be in the position of retaining possession of the tent and having a refund that delayed the process. The refund he requested was completed the day his tent was received, athough our standard operating times allow for 7 days after receiving goods back for action to be taken.

 

Regarding the customer's comments around us screening his order as potential fraud, as any retailer operating in this day and age we have been the victim of a wide variety of fraud attempts and we have strict procedures for dealing with these; we co-operate fully and openly with the police contacts in all cases and have been instrumental in obtaining criminal custodial sentances for attempted frauds. Unfortunately these fraud attempts occur on a daily basis and it is by following strict systems that we can detect and identify these cases. The big picture is that failing to catch these fraud attempts would mean an increase in prices across the board to cover lost goods and would ultimately risk the security of genuine customers. The action that this customer took of witholding the tent from collection is one of many identified ways of attempted fraud for online companies and was flagged by our systems as such, indicating significant risk involved in the transaction.

 

We invite any potential customers to search broadly online for the great many positive comments we receive daily for our rapid service and high quality products, from the industry leading forum UKCAMPSITE.CO.UK used by millions daily all the way through to people's independent blogs. We pride ourselves on excellence and we are disappointed if and when we hear a customer feels let down. We are open 7 days a week for customer contacts directly by telephone and email.

 

In terms of relative industry experience for camping and caravanning we have over 40 years base experience in the industry as a retailer. We pride oursleves on knowing the answers to your questions and all our staff are keen campers or caravanners. Further, we give all staff both internal and external training, including from relevant manufacturers. Once again I would not hestitate to say that with our 50 strong staff we have more relevant hands-on experience than anyone else in the industry.

 

We think it is by adhering to our strong commitment of quality and service that keeps us as Euorpe's Number 1 online retailer in the camping indusrty. However, we are always keen to hear when your feel otherwise so that we can mend and retrain as necessary.

 

Michael Cloake

[perplexity]

A nonce who needs to be sucked may be pleased to see his feeling put before the law but I am not.

 

In the mean time, the law is a fact and should a summons arrive you may find that the law counts for more.

 

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I think this is worthy of noting as indicated;

 

It is not only a legal right, clearly defined by the Distance Selling Regulations, to solicit a refund when a contract is cancelled, and with no duty to return the goods to the supplier's premises, never mind the attempt to hold the buyer to ransom, Section 6(4)(g) of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations especially defines the strict liability criminal offence of failing to inform that the right exists.

 

It could also be pointed out that this from the http://www.campingworld.com/info/satisfaction/ terms and conditions defrauds by misleading:

 

4. Shipping charges are not refundable.

 

 

 

 

Section 48B(2) of the Sale of Goods Act is indisputably clear about it:

 

If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—

 

(a) repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;

(b) bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

 

 

"Strict liability" infers that there would be no defence to the charge of misleading, once the actual terms of the law are pointed out but they carry on regardless.

[MARTIN3030]

Oops forgot-it is acknowledged that CampingWorld.co.uk is not the same site as http://www.campingworld.com

[Guest CAMPINGWORLD]

Thanks Martin,

 

Just to confirm that our terms of business and trading more than fully comply with all aspects of both the Sales of Goods Act and also Distance Selling Regulations.

 

In the case in question the customer did not wish to cancel, or notify us of his intention to cancel, under the Distance Selling Regulations and within the required timeframe. Instead he wished to pursue a fault claim which given the product was indeed faulty was only fair. Unfortunately we are duly bound by our supplier agreements and a certain amount of common sense to collect, inspect and confirm any notified faults for legitimacy so that we can authorise a replacement or repair.

 

Many thanks,

 

Michael

[perplexity]

Just to confirm that our terms of business and trading more than fully comply with all aspects of both the Sales of Goods Act and also Distance Selling Regulations.

 

In the case in question the customer did not wish to cancel, or notify us of his intention to cancel, under the Distance Selling Regulations and within the required timeframe. Instead he wished to pursue a fault claim which given the product was indeed faulty was only fair. ....

 

 

What on Earth is that about, another case?

 

Assuming that the correspondence reproduce above is authentic, the customer cancelled, "when I received"(sic) — invoked the Distance Selling Regulations — demanded a full refund, advised by Consumer Direct to that effect — nobody complained that the cancellation was not within the required timeframe; this is the first we hear of such an objection.

 

This, in any case is impertinent rubbish:

 

Unfortunately we are duly bound by our supplier agreements and a certain amount of common sense to collect, inspect and confirm any notified faults for legitimacy so that we can authorise a replacement or repair.

 

A consumer's contract is with the person he pays to supply goods. The relationship between that supplier and any other person is irrelevant, immaterial, beside the point.

 

In the mean time, Section 25 of the Regulations could hardly be more clear about it:

 

No contracting-out

 

(1) A term contained in any contract to which these Regulations apply is void if, and to the extent that, it is inconsistent with a provision for the protection of the consumer contained in these Regulations.

 

(2) Where a provision of these Regulations specifies a duty or liability of the consumer in certain circumstances, a term contained in a contract to which these Regulations apply, other than a term to which paragraph (3) applies, is inconsistent with that provision if it purports to impose, directly or indirectly, an additional duty or liability on him in those circumstances.

 

(3) This paragraph applies to a term which requires the consumer to return any goods supplied to him under the contract if he cancels it under regulation 10.

 

(4) A term to which paragraph (3) applies shall, in the event of cancellation by the consumer under regulation 10, have effect only for the purposes of regulation 14(5) and 17(8).

 

(5) These Regulations shall apply notwithstanding any contract term which applies or purports to apply the law of a non-Member State if the contract has a close connection with the territory of a Member State.

 

The consumer's claim to the effect that the goods were faulty is immaterial except that the consumer may not, therefore, be charged for an eventual recovery of the goods, as per section 14(6)

 

A seller may therefore dispute a postage cost, eventually, when he sees the goods. In the mean time the OFT's Guidelines for Business Sellers repeat the point on three separate occasions: Where the DSRs give consumers rights to cancel,

 

"this right is unconditional".

[Hammy1962]

It should also be noted that there are many 'Customers' who rip of companies as well. In recent weeks I've heard of :-

 

1. Falsified Car Service Records to obtain warranty work.

2. A mobile phone refunded, still apparently sealed in the box..............it tuned out the box contained a bag of soil.

3. A refund attempted, with a very authentic receipt, for an item the store has never sold.

 

If a company over charges you, it's a rip off. But if they give you too much change how many people would be honest enough to return it????

 

Hammy