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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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swift advances and FSA and others


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Just click on the link on your post where it says subject access request or this one and it will show you the letter to write.

 

Too late for changing what you have sent if already gone, but the Data Protection Act allows you to have all records relating to your relationship with them, they'll bank out some of what they don't want you to see, but the rest is worthy of analysis. Once you have received all you can get and have copies of statements and an analysis of all the charges they have made to your account, then come back here and someone can go through them with you to see if there's anything else you shouldn't have paid them.

 

I'd certainly make a general enquiry with them asking them exactly what it is they are refunding you, what it is made up of and how they determined exactly how much was due to you and for what reason. That way there will be absolutely nothing unclear to you, then come back here and we will help you analyse that.

 

One tip with Swift, NEVER trust what they tell you - always ask until you are 100% clear as to what they said is true. You'd surprise yourself.

 

Just keep plodding away at it because they are devils for covering things up (Allegedly :madgrin: ) .

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It would be interesting to know how much they have offered you, and if they included 8% interest or contractual interest.

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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Well i have returned the consent form for the cheque to be sent but have also sent e-mail asking for a breakdown of how they arrive at the figure they are offering me. Also they have given a number to phone to ask questions. Surprise you are put on hold but a message says that they will confirm the amount once they recieve back the form...they should have mine in there hands today. Plan to keep phoning and bugging them until i have a complete picture of whats going on. Will update with any developments as they happen.

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Well done, but try and get everything in writing rather than in phone calls. You can get transcripts of telephone calls so if there is anything juicy take a note of the time, date and person you are speaking with so you can get the transcript. - comes on a disc. It's just better to have anything they say in writing so you can always refer back to it at a later date if there is any dispute over this. You could just ask if phoning, to confirm what has been discussed in writing so as not to sound pedantic. They are getting used to we procrastinators now and once you've been 'sussed' as having been frequenting watering holes like CAG then they begin to put the shutters up.

 

Good luck.

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

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http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

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Well finally got to speak to someone....easier to get blood out a stone than information from him. But he confirmed that i am getting a refund, then i asked about a breakdown of the charges that will get refunded. He said that they didnt need to send that all they are required to send was a letter stating the amount and once i get that letter and agree to the amount a cheque will be sent. Explained that i need a breakdown of the charges and fees and what accured interest they are refunding so that i can agree with the figure that they arrive at. He has agreed and said he was having a breakdown printed out there and then and will send it out straight away. So should have it tomorrow or wednesday. So will see if they are playing fair now

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Well got a breakdown and what a lot of rubbish. As my loan was with swift advances until 2007 and then refinanced with swift 1st they only have to give refunds for a 1 year period.

The guy on the phone said that as swift advances have been found to have done nothing wrong they don't need to make redress. Seems it's all done to regulated and un-regulated loans and that's how the don't have to pay so much back. So looks like i will have fight like everyone else with swift advances to get something back but sure how as the loan has paid off since 2007. Anyone know if I still can?

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  • 5 weeks later...

The thing that anybody dealing with Swift has to watch is that they do not produce the Actuarial Accounts in Court. We had problems a few years back and Swift tried to repossess. Luckily our situation stabilised and we were able to make an offer of payment of the monthly installment plus an amount off the arrears agreed in Court, which we have maintained for several years now. However according to the Credit Reference Agencies the outstanding amount is increasing by a much faster rate than the amount being paid off on the arrears. Twice I have got the Judge to demand that they produce the Actuarial Account in Court so he can look at their charges and consider them under the UTCCC Regulations and twice they have refused to make the accounts available. After the last review I asked to approach the Judge and pointed out that they had failed to produce the actuarial accounts yet again and he said if they fail to produce them again he will consider ordering that the debt is unenforceable as they have failed to produce the required and requested documents in Court.

It will be interesting to see what happens but there is no date set at the moment. Incidently after yet another complaint to Swift they wrote to me and stated that there may have been some charges added to the account which were not allowed following the FSA investigation into Swift 1st and they offered to refund one month's payment in full and final settlement of my complaint. Needless to say I did not accept because I think there is a can of worms under this company and perhaps HMRC will follow this web of companies and the dealings and transfer of loans between other companies in the group, no doubt for tax avoidance. Now the Channel Islands have been dragged into the tax system the parent LLP in Guernsey may come under scrutiny.

Edited by Karada_uk
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  • 1 month later...

The Actuarial Account is the one that Swift and the other seedy lenders don't want you to see. It is the one where they add all the additional fees and charges and charge interest on them which over the period of the loan can add up to many times the amount that you borrowed. Their hope is that you will never be able to pay off the loan so somewhere along the line they can get possession of the property. Basically they run two accounts for a borrower, the loan account, which has the initial borrowing and the broker's fee (which is normally well above the limits recommended by the FSA) and to which the interest is added and payments made. The Actuarial account holds all the fees and charges, the fees they charge for taking the matter to Court (which technically should be awarded by the Court but they charge more that they would get awarded at Court). They then add the interest on to this amount. In Court they do not make any reference to this account except to include the amount in the total. The Court may make an order to pay the monthly installment plus an amount off the arrears, the arrears being the ones showing on the Loan Account. Generally the Court will settle for an amount calculated under the Norgren principle, which is an amount that will ensure the arrears are paid off over the remaining period of the loan. Of course, as they haven't declared the Actuarial balance nothing is being paid off that, so it continues to grow with management charges and interest being added. If the loan is interest only, then one will find that the settlement figure is not just the borrowed amount but an outstanding balance many times the size of the amount borrowed.. This is why you will find many cases on here of people who have borrowed, say £30,000, miss a payment early on and later when they come to settle the loan they find that they still owe almost the full amount or even more. The Actuarial Account has been sitting there, undeclared, having charges and interest added and not being reduced at all because it was not taken into consideration during the calculation in Court, because they deliberately withheld the information. It might even prove possible to bring criminal charges against them for taking a Pecuniary Advantage.

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You contact Swift and ask them to send you a copy of the Actuarial Account Accrual Summary Sheet and ask for it in A3 size as the one they send you you cannot read it's so small. They can send it in A3 as I have one. It will give you all the information you need, but you need an Actuarist to understand how they arrive at some of the figures.

Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
You contact Swift and ask them to send you a copy of the Actuarial Account Accrual Summary Sheet and ask for it in A3 size as the one they send you you cannot read it's so small. They can send it in A3 as I have one. It will give you all the information you need, but you need an Actuarist to understand how they arrive at some of the figures.

 

 

Hi can you tell me what an actuarist is please?

Thanks

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It's someone who understands how all these fancy figures interact with one another and they work out things like risks on insurance policies...clever beggars with fancy complicated number puzzles....

Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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It comes with the Subject Access Request, so yes, but there's no harm asking beforehand if that's all you want.

Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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  • 1 month later...

I have received a copy of my Actuarial Accrual account summary from Swift. What kinda thing should i be looking out for on there,btw i currently have a case with the FOS and is now with an adjudicator.Thanks

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check all charges. They charged me for 12 arrears letters when I was never in arrears. 24 letters to my building society to check status of mortgage. The building society never received any. I got a refund to my account of £400 in charges.

 

I also went for PPI to court. I lost because of time limitations. They are sharks but clever ones. Good luck with your FOS action. It it time consuming but one day someone will make the breakthrough needed to bring them to book.

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I have 4 pages of charges to go through totalling around £13000, This is charges plus interest alone added to my account for which i have a case currently with fos and also Oft were informed of the case as they have an interest Swift.

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I have 4 pages of charges to go through totalling around £13000, This is charges plus interest alone added to my account for which i have a case currently with fos and also Oft were informed of the case as they have an interest Swift.

 

Thank you for this information trucker. It is so good to hear when a case is being scrutinised which encourages others to complain and strengthens the case against Swift. Well done!

 

I requested an AAAR sheet as part of my SAR for which I paid a tenner and was told the info did not need to be sent under the rules of the ICO as it was not personal data. Well I shall be getting back to them!

 

I have sent my PPI complaint to the FSCS.

Edited by determindator
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Thank you for this information trucker. It is so good to hear when a case is being scrutinised which encourages others to complain and strengthens the case against Swift. Well done!

 

I requested an AAAR sheet as part of my SAR for which I paid a tenner and was told the info did not need to be sent under the rules of the ICO as it was not personal data. Well I shall be getting back to them!

 

I have sent my PPI complaint to the FSCS.

 

Following my initial SAR they sent me the usual stuff but never sent the AAAS so it has been a few months since they sent the SAR stuff and i sent them an email last Monday and received the AAAS Saturday,allthough they have sent it in A4 format not the A3 as requested which makes it more difficult to read.

As to my PPi claim,that was pretty straight forward as the broker has ceased trading and the claim went via the FSCS which took about 3 months in total.

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I sent for my Accurial Account too. Rang u and they sent it within 3 days. Maybe they're starting to panic!! Also look at your interest whether it's compounded or simple (Look in the column marked simple) The law on this changed in 2008 and only simple interest could be charged. Try & find an accountatnt who will go through it for you with a fine toothcomb.

 

Pam

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trucker I found the FOS to useless with my problems with Swift. The woman told me that while my complaint was being investigated by them, it would be unlikely that Swift would be charging interest on the account. But they have and I knew they would so I now owe even more than before the FOS took on the case. They also sent me an AAAS and the print is so small I cannot read it. Goodluck with your fight but I have given up now they can have my bloody house I am sick of it all and it's made me ill.

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I sent for my Accurial Account too. Rang u and they sent it within 3 days. Maybe they're starting to panic!! Also look at your interest whether it's compounded or simple (Look in the column marked simple) The law on this changed in 2008 and only simple interest could be charged. Try & find an accountatnt who will go through it for you with a fine toothcomb.

 

Pam

Looking at the AAAS under the column stating "Simple Interest" it says 0.00 throughout the whole life term of the loan 04/2005-10/2009 but on thew header page it states

AER 11.75%,

Enhanced daily rate at completion 0.03044136%

Underlying Rate at completion 0.03044136%

Simple Interest Daily rate at completion 0.03057534%

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